Tari

Sorry chao, but as petulant as you sound, my patting is currently reserved for killi.

Hey, to be fair, Tekken didn't win. So you sorta got your request. I'm sort of tempted to start a new Rachel Sanctuary thread on her birthday, but eh... this one's not that long.

GJ, chao. :P Also, I'm impressed lolis came out on top in the end. It wasn't exactly close to Tekken when you posted your request, after all.

...victory?

I'll probably be free. xD

Pretty crazy comebacks in the second round of both those games. I wonder why he was dropping the weapon toss combos, though? Hahahaha. Maybe next time. :D

Pick lolis to make the NVG members irritated when it wins. :D Also, you're really desperate, huh, chao? You're asking in the Rachel and Platinum forums for people to not vote for loli. Hmm.

...but she's also a loli. :| I don't know why you do this to yourself, chao. I really don't. ./lolis! I admit part of the reason I vote lolis is just to see if you guys will actually follow through on it if it wins. xD

+ 5A can only be chained 3 times , of course, and they say it has "compensation"? Can you link me to the original Japanese for this? I'm going to guess it's a discussion on 5A having longer startup or recovery.

I really want to see someone actually combo off of that. xD Come to think of it, might be worthwhile to make a CS2>CSEX changes thread for Plat. I'll leave that to Cirno and the other regulars, since I don't want to manage Plat and Rachel's changes threads. Off the top of my head: buffs: 3 bombs, controllable trajectory Super hammer can now be combo'd from air hit CH Bat can now be combo'd (launches into air on CH) CH Cat Hammer can now be combo'd (causes ground bounce on CH) 5B startup reduced j.C landing recovery removed j.D pan can now be combo'd from higher than before (as opposed to having to TK it to combo from the overhead in CS2) Air Persia can now fatal counter Air Persia is now projectile invuln (someone confirm? haven't seen it used in video yet, so cannot confirm for release version) nerfs: 2C now has repeat proration P1 nerf on a couple of her better starters 6A startup increased (can someone confirm this holds true in release?) System change limits 5A/2A to 3 gatlings per string edit: yo, gamma got the full list. Haha.

@chao: Grats on modship, by the way. Finish up in time for NWM! You know you can do it! :D

Good luck~. o: I did? Well, whatever, only if you make it to NWM.

Mash buttons when in doubt! And come to NWM. >

Ohoho, see, I knew I was awesome. :D >_> <_< /hides under a rock

Oy oy, I'm on. I've just been trolling around in training mode and doing stuff on my computer. Well, I'll be around until that package arrives. Once it's here, though, I think I'm off to the PNW house to start recording the Rachel video.

I can get on now if you'd like. Not doing much except waiting for UPS to get here with my copy of BF3.

I'd be more willing to try it somewhere that wasn't KFC, if it really came down to it.

@kro: I couldn't help but smile when I saw your avatar. xD

Changed this line in the first post: "Reduced combo rate forces us to cut short certain lengthy combos (mostly corner combos)." to "Reduced proration of normals forces us to cut short certain lengthy combos (mostly corner combos)."

I don't know about being able to do an ender off the 6C version. You've got a lot of additional proration in there. 70% from 6C, 89% two times from j.C, and 86% from sword iris, for a whopping total of 47.68%. This is as opposed to a single 89% from 6A. Also, that video is incredibly deceptive in appearance. What I've been trying to get across is that everything about that combo came down to failure in execution on the Rachel's part. The Makoto teching so fast was purely because of the way Rachel dropped her combo. Again, I emulated this exactly in CS2. The video doesn't actually give us any information about how techable/untechable the combo is after the fatal j.2C > 5CC.

Even if the 6A variation works, the 6C j.C j.C variation does not, which is what he did. You can't make assumptions about a combo that wasn't performed. The combo he did perform, I recreated tit for tat in CS2, bluebeats and all. It's the CS2 video link in the earlier post. Anyway, I've never gotten George to activate after the second 236A, so I can't really say much about your 6A combo. It's a 100% viable combo with one 236A, though the 6C j.C j.C variation is also legit with one 236A into 5CC (but you can't really do anything after the 5CC in that combo). Also, yeah, I'd forgotten that 6C is supposed to do a fair bit more damage in CSEX. The damage buffs would explain some of the numbers.

Yeah, character combo rate has no effect on untech time. It's just that her overall proration couldn't have gotten significantly worse, or her extended combos would definitely not work the same way at all. That said, I do remember seeing a change that said something like "blah > 5B 5CC dash 5B jc j.C 2D (lvl2) j.2C" combos don't work anymore. Does anyone remember what exactly that said, or if it's been proven true/false yet?

Unless I'm greatly mistaken (I could be, so anyone please correct me if I'm wrong), you can look through the frame data and figure out what you can cat chair this way: First, remember that cat chair gains guard point against strikes on frame 3, which means that 3 frame gaps* are big enough to chair. Let's say move A gatlings into move B. If move A has an attack level of 2, then it causes 13 frames of blockstun on the ground. If move B has a startup value of 12 frames, then A > B is gapless on normal block, and a 2 frame gap on IB. You cannot chair this. normal block: 13 - 12 = +1 instant block: 13 - 12 - 3 = -2 If move B had a startup value of 13 frames, however, then while A > B is still gapless on normal block, it's a 3 frame gap on IB, which means that you can cat chair move B if you IB move A. normal block: 13 - 13 = +0 instant block: 13 - 13 - 3 = -3 --- A practical example would be Rachel's very own 5B > 5C gatling. 5B is level 3, and causes 16 frames of blockstun. 5C has 17 frames of startup. [*]normal block: 16 - 17 = -1 [*]instant block: 16 - 17 - 3 = -4 5B > 5C therefore has a 1 frame gap on normal block, and is incredibly unsafe with a 4 frame gap on IB. You can IB 5B and easily insert cat chair before 5C. This is basically the reason that 5B > 5C is such a dangerous blockstring. That 1 frame gap on normal block means that anyone with a 1-frame DP, super reversal, or counter/guardpoint/parry can reversal out between 5B and 5C even on normal block. ---- *note: when I say X-frame gaps, I mean X frames including the first frame that the opponent's next move will go active. So a 3 frame gap is a gap where, on the 3rd frame, the opponent will hit you. This is why I say 3 frame gaps can be chaired, but not 2 frame gaps. I'm not sure if this is the universal way to discuss frame gaps, but I assume so. ---- edit: I want to point out that basically no blockstring can be IB cat chair'd in the next game, due to the delayed guard point. edit 2: adjusted the math to only represent frame gaps; much cleaner looking math, now, if not quite as detailed.

It also works if you do 3C (2 hits) 236A. You simply can't continue combo-ing after the fatal j.2C > frog > 236A. You basically have to end with 5CC immediately after the first 236A or risk them teching out for free. In fact, depending on when you toss the 236A, you might not even be able to combo 5C(2) after that combo. The only reason I recorded the combo the way I did was to match it up to the CSEX video exactly. It's interesting to note that the combo looks to have the same untechability, if that makes any sense. This is the main reason I'm wondering about prorate nerfs. Spa's idea is a pretty valid guess, but it doesn't explain how the combo can go on for the same duration. I'm too lazy to calculate the exact proration% the combo fall to in CS2, though.

@polka: That combo was illegit in CS2, already, remember? It bluebeating after the 236A had nothing to do with proration and everything to do with the player's inability to wait for half a second before throwing the lobelia. You can't continue the combo after George in CS2, even if you only throw one lobelia. I just tested it. There are too many hits. Same holds true if you replace '6C j.C j.C Iris BBL' with '6A BBL'. CSEX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZK_9qpmJ_I#t=21m CS2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiot2mUDS1g I'm wondering how much worse her normal proration could have gotten in general, if that crappy combo did 3378 dmg in CS2 and still does 3245 in CSEX. Not only does the combo look to be untechable at the exact same points, there's also only a 4% decrease in damage overall, and we've been told her character combo rate is decreased as well.