TornAparT Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Hey 10stars, I have a question about that loop you discovered (2b > j.4c loop). It only works on crouching opponents, right? If that's the case, can you make it work on a standing opponent by starting with 5C (which forces them into a crouching state on hit)? you mean like 5C > j.4C > [2B > j.4C loop]? yea you can do that.
RPGsFTW Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 you mean like 5C > j.4C > [2B > j.4C loop]? yea you can do that. Was that for FuRinKaZan mode only? If not, then how do you easily hit with the j.4C? Is it character specific? I saw it work on Tager, though that was in FuRinKaZan, and it's Tager after all so I'd like a little more info, please.
Reioumu Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Was that for FuRinKaZan mode only? If not, then how do you easily hit with the j.4C? Is it character specific? I saw it work on Tager, though that was in FuRinKaZan, and it's Tager after all so I'd like a little more info, please. yeah it's Furinkazan. And the 2b j.4c loop can be done on most of the characters I believe. I saw it against Nu and Arakune. Dunno about Noel, Carl, and Litchi, but I think it works on the rest of the cast.
Reioumu Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Oh, alrighty. That's why I was confused as to why I hear 2D instead. The range on 2D is why I don't use it much, that and 5D autoguards high, mid, and low attacks. However, I do notice the better positioning that 2D puts you in, allowing easier air combos on the opponent. Is the teleportation I can use with 2D, any but mostly 2D for its bad range, any useful? I'm not sure if teleporting always puts me next to the opponent, to help getting the hit. 2 is best for anti-air. But you can usually fix the range by doing an (A) teleport. if you get to autoguard. edit: shit double post . If a mod could merge my posts it would be nice.
RPGsFTW Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 yeah it's Furinkazan. And the 2b j.4c loop can be done on most of the characters I believe. I saw it against Nu and Arakune. Dunno about Noel, Carl, and Litchi, but I think it works on the rest of the cast 2 is best for anti-air. But you can usually fix the range by doing an (A) teleport. if you get to autoguard. That's cool. I'll try that out somewhat in training soon =) By the way, is it an infinite? Besides that, is there and easy way going about hitting with the j.4C? It looks kinda hard to do, mostly because your foot is behind you and they are not
10stars Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Hey 10stars, I have a question about that loop you discovered (2b > j.4c loop). It only works on crouching opponents, right? If that's the case, can you make it work on a standing opponent by starting with 5C (which forces them into a crouching state on hit)? Yes, as Tornapart said, it can be setup off of the 5c. However; 5c prorates, where 2b doesn't. So at the 9th hit if you distortion, you'll get 6.5k out if you start it with 2b, however if you start it with 5c, you'll get 5.7k out. That's cool. I'll try that out somewhat in training soon =) By the way, is it an infinite? Besides that, is there and easy way going about hitting with the j.4C? It looks kinda hard to do, mostly because your foot is behind you and they are not It is not an infinite. After the 10th hit (5 reps) the opponent is pushed too far away. However you CAN continue it for the 6th rep by 2 dashing after the j.4C connects instead of 3 or 1 dashing. And @ whoever asked if it works on everyone: No, the combo works on Arakune, Nu, and Ragna (ragnas setup is awkward, and it won't link right out of 2b, it has to start from j.4c and have weird spacing. And it also works on Tager, however tagers version is character specific to him as shown in the video.
TornAparT Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Yes, as Tornapart said, it can be setup off of the 5c. However; 5c prorates, where 2b doesn't. So at the 9th hit if you distortion, you'll get 6.5k out if you start it with 2b, however if you start it with 5c, you'll get 5.7k out. to add another thing about that. if you start it off of 5C against Tager, you have to cross him up with the first j.4C. After that you can do it how you would normally do it against Tager. Also it feels like the 5C has to be at a certain distance. Like a 5C right next to the opponent wont push them back far enough.
10stars Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 to add another thing about that. if you start it off of 5C against Tager, you have to cross him up with the first j.4C. After that you can do it how you would normally do it against Tager. Also it feels like the 5C has to be at a certain distance. Like a 5C right next to the opponent wont push them back far enough. good info, i didn't do much testing on 5c setups against Tager. Some useful information that Bang players should know is absolutely imperative to advanced play as Bang in my opinion: 1+A+B+C will break throws for 11 frames, even if it's a counter throw. So if you're using a drive move and you think you're going to get thrown during it, drive > 1+A+B+C. Since you can't do anything else anyway, the bang players should just get it to muscle memory to get some nasty throw breaks out; Video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJI02Q3My4I I'm also beginning to think, that this was programmed in, because it works against regular throws only. You know how if you get throw countered the X appears and you're already thrown? Well, the X appears and you're already thrown against command throws if you're in a drive move, but if you attempt this, it completely removes the X and doesn't even say throw counter, you just get thrown. I think it was put in to make throw unsafe moves throw safe. Then again, maybe its a glitch being ignored by however the command throws are programmed. Whatever, the point is, if you didn't know this was possible before, you do know. And you should use it.
WUT Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 You don't need a direction input to break the throw. A simple D, then A+B+C will work just the same. Still, that is hot. EDIT: You don't even need the A input. The game just buffers a throw break attempt for 11 frames. That's nice to know.
WUT Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Because I'm super cool and double posting only adds to that, I just wanted to mention that 5A is an awesome AA if you're spaced properly. Beating out deep/low Ragna, Jin, and Hakumen j.Cs (y'know, the 2D-safe variety) is win.
tataki Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Some useful information that Bang players should know is absolutely imperative to advanced play as Bang in my opinion: 1+A+B+C will break throws for 11 frames, even if it's a counter throw. So if you're using a drive move and you think you're going to get thrown during it, drive > 1+A+B+C. Since you can't do anything else anyway, the bang players should just get it to muscle memory to get some nasty throw breaks out; Video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJI02Q3My4I I'm also beginning to think, that this was programmed in, because it works against regular throws only. You know how if you get throw countered the X appears and you're already thrown? Well, the X appears and you're already thrown against command throws if you're in a drive move, but if you attempt this, it completely removes the X and doesn't even say throw counter, you just get thrown. I think it was put in to make throw unsafe moves throw safe. Then again, maybe its a glitch being ignored by however the command throws are programmed. Whatever, the point is, if you didn't know this was possible before, you do know. And you should use it. Good job on finding more CHEESE!
RPGsFTW Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 You don't need a direction input to break the throw. A simple D, then A+B+C will work just the same. Still, that is hot. EDIT: You don't even need the A input. The game just buffers a throw break attempt for 11 frames. That's nice to know. So if a Jin were to grab Bang out of a drive, all Bang would have to do is push A+B+C to break out? Nothing more? You sure about the no directional input needed? This is pretty cool
10stars Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 So if a Jin were to grab Bang out of a drive, all Bang would have to do is push A+B+C to break out? Nothing more? You sure about the no directional input needed? This is pretty cool It was brought up to me that it was 1+A+B+C, if it's just A+B+C that's cool too though. And it's not just Jin, every characters throws can be broken like that, if you input it in advance.
WUT Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 It's not even A+B+C; you can just do B+C. The game just buffers a throw break attempt for 11F if you enter a throw break prior to a throw counter.
AtTheGates Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 i thought this was common knowledge, since it's in the mook, sorry =( could have mentioned it earlier. you use 1+ABC or 4+ABC to option select, obviously, but it's only really necessary during a blockstring, not in the recovery of your moves. then agian, if you try to mash a drive inside a chain, you could use 1ABC or 4ABC to make ABSOLUTELY sure you do not screw up.
10stars Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 i thought this was common knowledge, since it's in the mook, sorry =( could have mentioned it earlier. you use 1+ABC or 4+ABC to option select, obviously, but it's only really necessary during a blockstring, not in the recovery of your moves. then agian, if you try to mash a drive inside a chain, you could use 1ABC or 4ABC to make ABSOLUTELY sure you do not screw up. I don't have the mook and stuff. And there's alot of players who don't know about it yet too.
RPGsFTW Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Hopefully this goes here, but: I need some serious Bang help. I'm not sure if it's just me, or if it's Jin, my opponent. This is how it goes. I attack a Jin (main example), or most other characters, and during some part of my combo, the other player is able to do a simple 5A/2A jab and start their own combo. This is extremely frustrating for me because my opponent seems like he is able to do it so easily, that and it takes a nice chunk of my health. My problem, related to the above, is that when I'm getting attacked, I try to drop my guard and 5A/2A my opponent, similar to how combos often find me. However, whenever I've tried, maybe it's just me, but I can't seem to hit my opponent with a quick jab-like attack. Instead, I get hit and combo'd more. I know the ground combos pretty well, however I need some approaching help. I usually jump in with a j.4C/j.C. But it starts to seem pretty obvious sometimes. Should I try j.B? I'd really like help with those few problems. Any input would be great. Of course I'm still trying hard, but things haven't been getting brighter for Bang.
10stars Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Hopefully this goes here, but: I need some serious Bang help. I'm not sure if it's just me, or if it's Jin, my opponent. This is how it goes. I attack a Jin (main example), or most other characters, and during some part of my combo, the other player is able to do a simple 5A/2A jab and start their own combo. This is extremely frustrating for me because my opponent seems like he is able to do it so easily, that and it takes a nice chunk of my health. My problem, related to the above, is that when I'm getting attacked, I try to drop my guard and 5A/2A my opponent, similar to how combos often find me. However, whenever I've tried, maybe it's just me, but I can't seem to hit my opponent with a quick jab-like attack. Instead, I get hit and combo'd more. I know the ground combos pretty well, however I need some approaching help. I usually jump in with a j.4C/j.C. But it starts to seem pretty obvious sometimes. Should I try j.B? I'd really like help with those few problems. Any input would be great. Of course I'm still trying hard, but things haven't been getting brighter for Bang. If you're playing online then it's your eyes trying to go off of visuals for combos. A combo is not something that can just stop by the opponent pressing a few buttons, you're dropping the combos and your opponent is taking advantage of it. Try approaching on the ground sometimes, or throwing a nail then dashing in. Always going in with j.X will end up with your opponent playing the ground to air game which is easier to play than the "what's he going to do game"
RPGsFTW Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 If you're playing online then it's your eyes trying to go off of visuals for combos. A combo is not something that can just stop by the opponent pressing a few buttons, you're dropping the combos and your opponent is taking advantage of it. Try approaching on the ground sometimes, or throwing a nail then dashing in. Always going in with j.X will end up with your opponent playing the ground to air game which is easier to play than the "what's he going to do game" Not online. Oh no haha. I played my second tourney this week. Last week I got 2nd out of 18, and today, Sunday, I got 4th out of 30. Currently, these tourneys are free, but will start costing money soon. I've had many thoughts about rethinking my strategy, approaching and what not, even A+B blocking at certain spots. I've also asked the other players there what they do when they're getting hit. The best way I can describe my "combo break thing" is when I'm attacking said Jin. First of all, this Jin, my close friend, won today's tournament. He raped kinda hard. He doesn't use the ice car for anything, but his big, annoying, 30+ hit combos with supers, etc. I'll start trying to apply pressure with some of the standard ground BnB Bang combos. During his blocks, he is sometimes able to crouching guard into a jab. I don't know what I must be doing wrong to be getting jabbed at all, because he barely, if ever, A+B blocks, which I'd think would help. Is there anything safe to do when guarding with Bang? Any form of jab, or possibly drive attack? I feel kinda stupid losing to this sometimes
10stars Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Not online. Oh no haha. I played my second tourney this week. Last week I got 2nd out of 18, and today (Sunday), I got 4th out of 30. Currently, these tourneys are free, but will start costing money soon. I've had many thoughts about rethinking my strategy, approaching and what not, even A+B blocking at certain spots. I've also asked the other players there what they do when they're getting hit. The best way I can describe my "combo break thing" is when I'm attacking said Jin. First of all, this Jin, my close friend, won today's tournament. He raped kinda hard. He doesn't use the ice car for anything, but his big, annoying, 30+ hit combos with supers, etc. I'll start trying to apply pressure with some of the standard ground BnB Bang combos. During his blocks, he is sometimes able to crouching guard into a jab. I don't know what I must be doing wrong to be getting jabbed at all, because he barely, if ever, A+B blocks, which I'd think would help. Is there anything safe to do when guarding with Bang? Any form of jab, or possibly drive attack? I feel kinda stupid losing to this sometimes During his blocks he can 2a? That means that there's at least a 6-7 frame gap in whatever you're using for pressure. If you 5a-5b-2b-2c-623b there is absolutely no way to poke out with 2a or any other move, you can dead angle and that's it. The only way that he's poking out is if you're using something with gaps in it. For example, the above pressure string can not be mashed out of, but if you use a pressure string with a bad gap in it like 5a-5b-2b-2c-6d, inbetween the 2c and the 6d he can mash 2a and hit you out of it. Is this what you're referring to or is it something else? And also, if its something like 5a-5b-5c, inbetween 5b and 5c he can hit you with 2a, this is because 5c has 18 frames of startup and the enemy is not in blockstun while it is starting up. No one can actually mash out of pressure strings unless there is a gap, Bang is no exception, neither is Jin. However, if you instant block and you know a low is coming next in the pressure string, you can instant block > 6d. If there's a small gap inbetween the next hit of the pressure string (4-6 frames) you can instant block > 2d or instant block 5d.
RPGsFTW Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Well, I'm sorry I can't say the combo I did exactly, I forgot =P, but what you said makes the most sense, frame-wise of course. I'll try to more consistent and careful, just in case. I'm not sure I'd be able to instant block, blocking right when I'm hit, correct?, very often on purpose though. I think that the attempt of me trying to time it perfectly will end up with me getting hit, going into the rest of the combo. About the air combos, is there anything I should be doing to meet others in the air? I don't like j.4C/j.C-ing all the time, because that just puts them on the ground, where they might anti-air me, and then combo The Jin is usually able to jump at me, when I jump, hit me with an attack, then jump again and hit with more attacks, which leads into a simple, painful aerial combo. As far as I know, Bang doesn't really "jump" at other people who have already jumped, and proceed with attacks. Or it could just be me, but that's what I need help with. Air combo starter/how to meet another jumping attacker in the air attack advice?
AtTheGates Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 found a nice throw setup today in a dora vs. dio vid: corner chain into 2C, 6D (so, the beginning of the universal BNB), then j.623C as a combo. breakable of course, but quite surprising once in a while i guess. the best way to input the j.623C imo is: "623,9,3+C". if you just do "623,9,C", a lot of times you'll get the shuriken.
10stars Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Well, I'm sorry I can't say the combo I did exactly, I forgot =P, but what you said makes the most sense, frame-wise of course. I'll try to more consistent and careful, just in case. I'm not sure I'd be able to instant block, blocking right when I'm hit, correct?, very often on purpose though. I think that the attempt of me trying to time it perfectly will end up with me getting hit, going into the rest of the combo. About the air combos, is there anything I should be doing to meet others in the air? I don't like j.4C/j.C-ing all the time, because that just puts them on the ground, where they might anti-air me, and then combo The Jin is usually able to jump at me, when I jump, hit me with an attack, then jump again and hit with more attacks, which leads into a simple, painful aerial combo. As far as I know, Bang doesn't really "jump" at other people who have already jumped, and proceed with attacks. Or it could just be me, but that's what I need help with. Air combo starter/how to meet another jumping attacker in the air attack advice? j.b at range for air to air, j.A if you have forward dashing momentum, hit it before you're level with your opponent, aka while you're elevating.
solidshake Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I'm not sure I'd be able to instant block, blocking right when I'm hit, correct?, very often on purpose though. I think that the attempt of me trying to time it perfectly will end up with me getting hit, going into the rest of the combo. it's really better to try in telegraphed block strings - it's always gonna be way easier to IB the 3rd or 4th hit rather than the 1st. think of it more as moving back to neutral in brief bursts rather than guessing when to block.
RPGsFTW Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 @10Stars: I'll try that some more. I too often jump in with j.C, which I know gets very old, and obvious. But do j.A and j.B really go into an aerial combo themselves? Or just a simple combo like: j.A > j.B > dj.C? If so, it's better than nothing. Relating to the above still, how often should I, if ever, j.D? Its range might not be worth it sometimes? @SolidShake: I'll try and do IBs like that then. The way you're telling me sounds much safer than how I thought you'd IB the first hit.
Recommended Posts