WUT Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 And regular throw can be broken. Command throw is super nice.
Ten Yaiba Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Hello everyone, I've just started playing and found Bang, Manliest of Men, is the character that bests suits my play style. I have a few questions though, like for Bang's command throw: , I've been using it as a wake-up game against my friend who usually plays Haku-men or V-13, and as long as I'm close enough to him when he Ukemi's, I can catch him in it without fail. is there some kind of counter I should beware of if I use this too much? I try to change it up, but the delicious Damage that throw does coaxes me back to it. Also, I find myself using Bang and his attacks far more than you have suggested is wise. I ususally have a 50/50 shot when playing against my friend but I want an edge. Also, is it wrong to play Bang as half Defensive and reactionary? I find that letting an opponent attack an Auto-Guarding Bang to be very rewarding to me in a match (Excluding Nu's fat multi-hit normals, I'm still working on teleporting the right distance when fighting against that bloody range game) Thank you all for your patience and help in advance. I look forward to talking to, and playing online with all of you.
solidshake Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Also, is it wrong to play Bang as half Defensive and reactionary? I find that letting an opponent attack an Auto-Guarding Bang to be very rewarding to me in a match (Excluding Nu's fat multi-hit normals, I'm still working on teleporting the right distance when fighting against that bloody range game) i think bang should be more offensive in a neutral situation, especially since he's quickest to get neg penalty. i have better luck using autoguards against sloppy pressure rather than trying to anticipate pokes. since his damage is low, the sweet spot for winning is offensive mixup and pressure. nu requires a separate playbook that i haven't even touched yet
RPGsFTW Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 And regular throw can be broken. Command throw is super nice. I thought the command throw could also be broken. Just like Tager's 720C . Also, I have a question regarding throw breaks. What are the differences in exclamation point color, size, and amount? Ex: purple, yellow, green, 2 purple, big purple, etc.
solidshake Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Ex: purple, yellow, green, 2 purple, big purple, etc. i hadn't noticed different sizes/quantity for the throw breaks, but my understanding is that purple only appears during hit/block stun and indicates that you have a few more frames to break yellow/red only appears for highs/lows i thought?
WUT Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 A command throw can't be broken unless your opponent is in hit/guard stun.
RPGsFTW Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 A command throw can't be broken unless your opponent is in hit/guard stun. Does that mean that an attempt to tick throw them into it might be breakable? Probably like 5A jab into the command grab? Good thing to know though. I'll try to do it more often then. Looks cool, better damage than standard grab
WUT Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 If you wait long enough it can't be broken. Problem is that command throw does start up in 13F, along with shorter range than normal throw, so utilizing it in tick throws tends to be a weak option.
Browncoat3 Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Is it generally a bad idea to try and catch a Tager with your own command throw? Usually I'll throw one out just to keep my mixups fresh, but it seems kind of dangerous considering his own command throw is faster, has more range, (I think) and has some weird invincibility frames. Also, I've had a good Tager time the invincibility on his backdash to avoid my command throw only to land his own command throw. It hurt. I guess I should just stick to putting on pressure in other ways?
WUT Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 That's a risk you take whenever you fight someone with a better command throw than yours in any fighting game: they'll use theirs when you use yours. I do try to command throw Tager; I'm just more cautious trying it then I am against other characters. Backdash -> punish is strong, and Tager has a tendency to do it often as his backdash has solid invincibility. TL;DR: If you're conditioning them well enough it should be fine.
mrpibbs23 Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 I really don't suggest trying to throw Tager, his base throw range severely beats yours, not to mention if he drops a 360 or something after backdash, that's going to hurt. That backdash of his is really a pain to deal with when trying to land certain setups.
Kicks Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 It's my opinion that if you're getting breakable command throws with a tick throw setup, that means you can still get a 'real' tight/unbreakable setup as well by waiting a few more frames. Some dumb stuff I've been doing... u+C (low to the ground j.C). Use it to beat throws and get a CH. CH j.C lets you cancel into webnail then you can go for a combo or mixup with 5C or command throw right as they get out of the web stun. You can also super. Doesn't work on Rachael or Carl. It's silly, but gives you a non-air webnail stun if that means anything. What to do if you land anti-air/anti-jump 5C? Wait and go for tech mixups?
AtTheGates Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 I What to do if you land anti-air/anti-jump 5C? Wait and go for tech mixups? quoting myself from the combo thread: nice combo i saw in the current gamechariot vids: iad.j.4C counterhit vs. air (opponent wanted to jump away & attack after a blocked 5D of Bang), \/, 5C (knocks down),2C,623B, dash, continue combo. you could also end with the 2C -> jump cancel, okizeme.
AtTheGates Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 i suggest you all watch the hima arakune vs. dora bang matches i linked, really good strategies & combos there. - j.A (counter hit) vs. cloud summon combos into j.D, land, relaunch - j.B,j.C,j.623B combos in most situations against arakune - i noticed that dora bang inputs his TK palm thrust with 7 instead of 9, if he screws up, a back-jumping C comes out, which is good if your opponent is in the corner - nice angle to air dash and still apply pressure. so his motion probably is: 6237B.
WUT Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Yeah I didn't know CH j.A, j.D had beat until a match yesterday vs. a Hakumen. Was planning on doing a j.A (whiff), j.D to cover myself from an inevitable 2C and he jumped too; it was a nice surprise. It certainly is useful to know. There's plenty of times where I get a CH j.A AtA and I simply follow it up with j.B j.623B. Going to get much more damage now.
10stars Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I have a decent setup with steel rain to show when i have a minute to record it. It may not ever get put to use, but it should be available in case the situation ever occurs.
Kicks Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I wanted to have a better write-up for this, but I figure I'll just post some stuff, see where the conversations goes, then keep adding. Anyways... j.D Used to think this move was kinda good. Then I found out mega damage comes from it. So I thought it was pretty good. Then I found out a million other uses for it and I abuse it all the time. I shouldn't, but it's just too baddass not to use it. Firstly, the nature of the move, how it keeps you almost in the same place you use it, makes it really versatile. Basically you can pick a spot on the play field, get there with Bang's massive mobility, and control that spot. If you think an opponent is going to be somewhere. Get there first, j.D, and shout "BANG BITCHES!" as you land a CH. j.D also lets you control timing to a certain degree. Timing becomes more and more important as you get into higher level play. It's a crazy good anti-throw. I used to be all sad that it wasn't an overhead (still am a bit ), but because throw whiff often nets you a CH, the mixup is still so strong I can let it slide. Next, just a couple of setups. 2A>5B>2B>2C>6D>IAD (on hit)... -land 2A> -land 5A> -land 5C> -WebNail -DriveNail -land command throw j.D (this will almost always bait a throw, the first time someone sees it) Very similarly, you can do this with j.C. These are stronger in the corner. Because j.C has crazy huge block stun and a tall hitbox, you can create some really ambiguous timings Drive Nail>Air Dash>j.C... 2B>IAD>j.C... >webnail (need good spacing) >drive nail land>5A> land>2A> land>5C> land>command throw >j.D land>j.D_8D_9D (however you do it, just really low j.D after landing) These all have different timings and lead to some good stuff. You can take out the j.C for wackier empty jump mixups which are also scary with j.D in your arsenal. The drawback is that j.D has some pretty lousy frames on block. If you have some solid throw baiting of your own, use j.D for destruction.
10stars Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I thought the 6d > iad on hits were considered normal bang play at this point, guess not enough people do it yet. j.D is good, for the reasons you mentioned as well as the fact that you can bait dps with it.
MGear Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 You should probably write some stuff about the A nail trick during Furinkazan.
Reioumu Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 2369A during FRKZ will make you fly forward and keep going, you mean that one?
MGear Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 2369A during FRKZ will make you fly forward and keep going, you mean that one? Not just 9, but whatever direction you end the motion will propel you in that direction. It seems useful for rushing down full screen without wasting two extra nails. 8 Jump, 236A will get you all the way across with an extra jump left. It's also useful for running away all day .
Reioumu Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Just thought of something... What if you did BC 236a (after the grab kick hits) and then 5c on the ground immediately. If they tech immediately and land, most people ground block on reaction to landing so the 5c pretty much hits when they are on the ground. I test by having noel immediately 5a after the tech and the 5c still hits before the 5a. so they're forced to guard while taking poison damage. If they don't tech then your 5c hits them to the ground and you have normal oki setup. So it's 1332 damage after the poison nail. With the 5c invalid combo it's 1651. If you knock them into the corner with 5c when they don't tech, you can use steel rain safely. Though it's really strict timing. Dunno if it's worth the shuriken usage, but just a fun fact. More variety tends to help so the enemy can't predict what you're going to do.
TheDarkWall Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 oooooh, here I was going and feeling unique for using my A shurikens like that in FRKZ. CURSE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!
WUT Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Not just 9, but whatever direction you end the motion will propel you in that direction. It seems useful for rushing down full screen without wasting two extra nails. 8 Jump, 236A will get you all the way across with an extra jump left. It's also useful for running away all day . Expanding on this, if you buffer a TK A nail out of either a 6 or 4 dash on the ground, you can launch yourself with 2 jumps to spare. You can do the same little buffer input via a whiffed normal, as well.
Kicks Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 What are you guys using after a jumping/aerial opponent blocks 5A>5B? I always try to JC into j.A, but of course you can't JC 5B on block so I get 6A. I was thinking >5C or >6C or >5D. Any other thoughts? Just mash 5A for anti air instead? >2B?
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