Cakeair Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 It's so annoying. All they do is trap me in the corner, what's the best defense? I cant barrier burst cause I like my barrier block. I hate this matchup can someone help?
Esjihn Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 2a,5b,3c,214axx214D are all great pokes vrs him that can lead to knockdowns. The only thing imo you need to watch out for is Jins 5c, into his 5D. You get hit with that and you can kiss 75% or more of you life bar goodbye. Also when your waking him up watchout for his ice spike move it has invincibility can lead into combos iirc but when baited like anyother DP style move has horrible recovery. This is Day one for me but im sure the more experienced people can help you out. I just spent 10 hours doing the ragna vs Jin matchup with 2 very good GG players in town. Its not a bad matchup you just have to learn through experience.
Esjihn Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Sorry im looking up the move now its just the standing C into the Icicle that freezes on hit. His standing D. Guess im just used to saying GG terms i meant his D move.
excelence Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I'm certain Jin 5c > into any of his drives doesn't combos except special Forcebreak but yeah if u ever got hit with his Drives, it'll cost u a lot, i play this match up for quite a time now 5b/5c is a very good poke to use, non rc-ed blocked ice-car is very unsafe and can be punished with Ragna 5b, Jin 5b has vacuum effect and can be mixed up with throw
Esjihn Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Man so technical. Its like you dont understand that im saying whichever C that combos into his D icicle. I dont play the character so i was just going on a whim thats how it was combod into his D... First i say Dust then you respond like an asshole when you knew i meant D and now on some other tangent.
excelence Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I'm just saying that "which ever C u mention about doesn't combos into whatever normal D Jin has", the only way you get hit by it, if u're pushing buttons, being launched by his crouching only combos or you eat random 6c>2d iad combos, But you said. The only thing imo you need to watch out for is Jins 5c, into his 5D. which on my understanding 5C>5d would never happen FYI i don't play Jin too i seriously didn't know what you meant with "Dust", i thought i missed something on his combos setup. and what exactly Jin "D Icicle"
Ragnarok Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 think he means the ice car ? If so, it's quite easily punishable with just block. And yeah, nothing combo into D. so when you block those C, get ready to IB those D moves and punish hard. As for general things to know for jin fight (back to OP), gotta obviously watch out those dragonz. They're decently baitable, and like our beloved Ragna's, heavily punishable. Even better is he stay on ground when he wiff/get blocked, so you can start some spiffy combos. His overhead have no combos but specials, and cant cancel when whiff (and i think on block too ?). So when you catch a mistimed one (range is not that good), you're free to go as it got some recovery. Ground distortion comes out very fast, so watch out random ones. Heard many peoples play Jin on live, so you'll see plenty tossed left and right i guess. If i remember well, his kick where he jumps (6B?) is not overhead. so best to just stick to low block and watch for jump/grab/6A(lil whirlwind with his sword sheath overhead i spoke bout before). He can do way long pressure string when played good, so dont release your attention!
Cakeair Posted July 1, 2009 Author Posted July 1, 2009 So I just use his pokes and block the ride the ice thing?
ryokoalways Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 You beat Jin at close and mid range. You lose at long range. You also lose if you approach from the air (ragna's air to ground is pretty mreh). when you are at long range, you need to be conservative. 5d and 2d can totally destroy you if timed well. Don't get into a dp war, because a good Jin will always win that one. Jin's a dp is ridiculously good too. I don't play ragna, but from playing against ragna as Jin, I avoid close-mid range combat, and try to play at Jin's favorable distance till I can get a chance to start the offensive. During Jin's offensive, all ragna can do is really tide it through. Jin has nice frame traps with his normals, can bait various moves from ragna (including dp), and 5d and 6d are still equally dangerous.
jiyuna Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 You beat Jin at close and mid range. You lose at long range. You also lose if you approach from the air (ragna's air to ground is pretty mreh). Ignore this, approaching Jin from the air is fine. Even though he has FOURRRR DPSSS OMG, he has no 6a anti-air, which makes an air approach much easier. His fastest DP has the same startup as Ragna's 6a- but it has no invincibility, longer recovery, and leads to less damage. Jin DP's are more about zoning and catching jumpers than defensive anti-air. And who started this "Ragna j.c is meh" idea? That move is pro.
Tsak Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 aye i haven't had trouble getting in on jin by air i think its more viable then trying to mess with simba head besides baiting dps with empty jumps is lulz
ryokoalways Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Let's put it this way, in terms of getting in through the air, consider it a 50/50 game regarding whether the Jin play sees it coming. Also, ragna's jc (which I personally don't believe is really that good of a move compare to his ground counterparts, which are retardedly good mostly) will only work if you do a regular air dash entry. A high one is easy to deal with by several options. My main point is that your optimal dash distance is also Jin's optimal distance for using a dp, and if Jin guesses right (the 50/50), he can pre-emped 5d, which will hit a low air dash. So you are basically not going to get anywhere most of the time. By the way, I don't know how well ragna's 6a fair against the a dp, don't try to out speed it with your jc. a dp comes out in 6 frames, not 14 as someone previously stated. This is essentially his aa, because unless you block it right in his face it's going to be hard to counter, hense why Jin players don't have to really use it judiciously. Also, using Kaqn (one of the two ragna I've seen) as an example, he rarely approaches Jin from the air (not even jump ins), because 5b and ground specials are simply superior to whatever Ragna has in the air. Approaching from the air is more Jin's forte, because Jin's jb and jc are really good. I have played 2-3 ragna's so far, all of them relatively decent at the game (not new. They had experience with arcade), and from experience Ragna gives me the most fits with 5b and hell's fang, he gets to get in my face where I'm playing a guessing game that I really have no business playing.
jiyuna Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 This is essentially his aa, because unless you block it right in his face it's going to be hard to counter, hense why Jin players don't have to really use it judiciously. You should remember this quote, you're gonna be laughing at yourself in a couple weeks.
ryokoalways Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 You really should mention a bit more in your post. I'm all for criticism, but at least let it be constructive. Besides, I don't believe I said I'm right. everything I mentioned is based on my matches thus far. The only thing I can assure you is that I'm not playing scrubs via network, but friends that were veterans at GG. Other than that, if you have feedback, let it be longer than one sentence.
sogos Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 jiyuna does not want to hold your hand only LK's i dont even play ragna. if jin likes to dp everything just empty jump in, whether you block his dp in the air or landed and blocked it on the ground you should be able to stick out your gdlk 5b or use your mappa punch (214a?) for CH on jins recovery. Congrats, youve made him scared of using his dp all the time, now you get to jump in normally HOORAY FIGHTING GAME BASICS
ryokoalways Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I don't believe I ever said dp everything that's in the air. If I'm unclear I apologize. My point in that sentence is that for aa purposes, the a dp is absolutely viable as your first option, and can be treated as a 6a. Also, the counter you mentioned is again, close or mid range. I believe I made a mention of the fact that dping that close is a bad idea already. Please also keep in mind empty jump ins isn't a cure all. In fact, it's just another 50/50. If i sense an empty jump in, you just walked straight into a 5b, which Jin can work quite a few things off. A 50/50 like that is not a counter in the sense that, say, a pure 6a counter air dash approach. It comes down to the players instead of getting beat outright.
jiyuna Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Jin DP is in no way 6a. This isn't SFIV...you can't do last second DP and win/trade. Couple that with the fact that IB in BB is retarded good/easy, and you'll see you're taking a huge risk everytime you go for AA DP. 6a's on the other hand have invincibilty properties to beat out incoming air attacks, lead to more damage, and can be chained/jump cancelled to make them safe against block. I don't even know what we are arguing about now, but I'm saying again that approaching Jin from the air is fine; it's ugly, but you can basically just cannonball on top of him while mashing on IB, then j.b/c as you start falling. EDIT: and to answer the OP's question, learn2play. and IB (a lot).
excelence Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Wait,... you can IB Jin Fubuki on Mid air? O_o Anyway, yes approaching Jin from mid air is ok, but i also feel, approaching him via ground is more viable, as Ragna poking range eat everything he throw... err almost everything >_>
Darkhonor90 Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Wait,... you can IB Jin Fubuki on Mid air? O_o Anyway, yes approaching Jin from mid air is ok, but i also feel, approaching him via ground is more viable, as Ragna poking range eat everything he throw... err almost everything >_> Yes you can instant block in the air. Just like you can do that in GG 0_o
ryokoalways Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I agree air approach is viable, but I interpreted it as you use air approach more than ground. What I meant is that you should air dash in very sparingly. I did not mean to not air dash at all. And I did mention that unless close range, a dp is viable aa. It's not like I have not been baited by a jump in, but overall I have had success against most chars when using a dp as the aa in place of the missing 6a (As I mentioned in the previous post,I agree that it's not better, but it is an able replacement).
excelence Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Yes you can instant block in the air. Just like you can do that in GG 0_o i know about IB on mid air but on GG iirc u can't IB a ground DP's on mid air(must FD) ... and i think, i always got clean hit every time i try to IB his Fubuki
ryokoalways Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I think you can IB it. I'm not sure, the only ones I know you need to barrier are ragna's 6a and maybe his dp? Now that you mention it I probably should test those out >.>
Tsak Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 if you can't IB it (pretty sure you can) you can just FD IB it with the same effect or maybe less amount of recovery frames but an IB nonetheless
excelence Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 !!!O_o Barrier & IB at the same time on BB? that would help a lot, and i'm certain u can't FD & Ib at the same time on GG, so i'm a bit confused before >_>
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