Icarium Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Thanks for the advice. Finally got to break out the new stuff today. Too much working and studying. Anyway, 5B, 5C, 5D, DC, 6A, Hj.C, j.D, JC, j.D, 623D, 236C, 214C is pretty awesome in all kinds of situations. For some reason it isn't on the first post of the calamity trigger combo thread that I can tell. I didn't try it on my own, because I didn't realize 5D (DC), 6A would connect. Alot of my opponents are just going 100% mindless rushdown/pressure, with little thought to blocking. Gives alot of opportunities to land an easy 5B (or 5C) opener. Only problem is that some of the moves I try to "punish" aren't actually punishable, and I get owned. Part of the learning process, I guess. I've also been playing with the 5B, 6A, 5D (1 hit), etc... combo. A more unreliable for me, because I still sometimes miss the delay-214D, 5B online. So in CS, the first one listed there is no longer good? I could use something like: 2B/6B/5B, 3C, 5D (DC), 6A (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.D, j.214C, dash 5D, 22C instead... or are they once again not listing it in the BnB combos?
VR-Raiden Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 5B, 5C, 5D, DC, 6A, Hj.C, j.D, JC, j.D, 623D, 236C, 214C is a good online combo cause you can just mash it all out, no special timing required. Better combos take some timing, like the meterless double 22C ones (especially on Jin), or the GH delay ones. 5D (DC) > 6A is also good for corner combos, such as whatever > 3C, 5D (DC), 6A, 5D, 22C. So in CS, the first one listed there is no longer good? I could use something like: 2B/6B/5B, 3C, 5D (DC), 6A (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.D, j.214C, dash 5D, 22C instead... or are they once again not listing it in the BnB combos? That one is listed in the CS combos thread.
Icarium Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Yeah I already do that corner one, but thought 5D (DC), 6A only worked in the corner. Just me being a noob I guess.
Edge Reaper Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 I hate absolutely abhor this match-up. Even when I'm in the lead, the battle quite often is turned by one of three things... 1. The triple air sword special drive (trying to remember all of the names is a pain). Whenever I'm blocking it, he'll rush me in the middle of the block and get past my guard by either 6A or 2B. The same goes for the giant ice sword special drive. 2. Every last one of his DP's. The damn things break any form of pressure I might have over him, whether in the air or on the ground. The invincibility frames for his attacks are beyond annoying and more often than not, will cost me the match if not from the following combo, but from the frustration afterwards. 3. His ice arrow DD. Not as much of a problem, but I can't help but curse when my air approach is stopped before its even begun, AND THEN get grabbed while frozen in mid-air to take another helping of damage I never wanted. It's almost to the point that I'm refusing matches against Jin players (the only other players I refuse are Nu's). Come on people give me a reason to keep playing this prick.
A.X.I.S. Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 I hate absolutely abhor this match-up. Even when I'm in the lead, the battle quite often is turned by one of three things... 1. The triple air sword special drive (trying to remember all of the names is a pain). Whenever I'm blocking it, he'll rush me in the middle of the block and get past my guard by either 6A or 2B. The same goes for the giant ice sword special drive. 2. Every last one of his DP's. The damn things break any form of pressure I might have over him, whether in the air or on the ground. The invincibility frames for his attacks are beyond annoying and more often than not, will cost me the match if not from the following combo, but from the frustration afterwards. 3. His ice arrow DD. Not as much of a problem, but I can't help but curse when my air approach is stopped before its even begun, AND THEN get grabbed while frozen in mid-air to take another helping of damage I never wanted. It's almost to the point that I'm refusing matches against Jin players (the only other players I refuse are Nu's). Come on people give me a reason to keep playing this prick. 1. quit IADing in this match, your not beating his air game, mash ID, and learn to react to jin (lol) mix up, pro tip: jin only has one ground overhead, if you can't block that then your fucked. 2. don't rush in take your time, you can crouch his A and B DP and punish his C one easy. 3. barrier block it, and throw break the tick grab. as a person who subs jin and ragna, i can say that all the stuff you are getting hit by is because you jump too much, we already said you can't beat jin's air game, and in most cases jin will aproach from the air, take your 6A and give him 1.
Kain Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 1: Block better. If you're blocking low during their Force Break swords, they'll naturally use their overhead, and if high, a low attack. Use common sense logic for this one. (You could just jump over the FB ground sword however, as long as you know what you're doing.) 2: A Fubuki has no invul, and you can tell which one he's using by how fast it comes out. Try baiting his DP or DP right back at him if you sense a DP, seriously. Don't try to punish the C DP while it's active, however. (I think they're air unblockable, so...) 3: Ice Arrow is air unblockable without barrier. If he's using that to punish your air approaches, you're doing it wrong. In fact, you shouldn't be approaching from the air all the time against Jin, because your options in the air suck. 4: I hope Jin Car scrubs aren't beating your ass like this, because that's embarrassing.
VR-Raiden Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 1. The triple air sword special drive (trying to remember all of the names is a pain). Whenever I'm blocking it, he'll rush me in the middle of the block and get past my guard by either 6A or 2B. The same goes for the giant ice sword special drive. This works pretty often, at least the first time you do it. After Jin does that 3 projectile air move, he's inclined to start pressuring you, like in this case. The block stun on that move is pathetically short though, so you can almost always ID him after blocking them. Just don't get predictable with it, smart Jin's might get hit with it once then start baiting it. But then it's always in the back of their mind that you might DP, so that's something going for you. Dumb Jin's will get hit with it every time
Edge Reaper Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 Ha ha! I have the will to live again! But seriously thanks for the input. I should be able to deal with these problems accordingly. Now here's just a question. Does anyone notice hitbox issues against Jin? Quite often when using 5D or CS, I'll actually hit him when he's behind me (in the case of CS, the fucker will bounce in front of the second hit). I would have written this off as just a momentary thing, but this happens way too often against Jin (and occasionally Noel).
Kain Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 Not just Jin, but against everyone else. It has more to do with the hitboxes of 5D and CS than a character's hitbox, though.
Xill Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Not just Jin, but against everyone else. It has more to do with the hitboxes of 5D and CS than a character's hitbox, though. Jin's hitbox is a joke for 5D. End story. Things that you think would be Ragna Auto Combo, you might wanna throw a 623C just to keep yourself from getting punish'd from 5D retard'd recovery. I don't think i've ever used CS with any real intent to cause damage on Jin, so you're on your own with that one.
Edge Reaper Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Yeah I've kind of given up on Carnage Scissors. At least against Jin. My input is unreliable. More often then not I end up using 6 or 4D instead. I'm sticking to rapids and Blood Kain for now. Maybe Devoured by Darkness if the opportunity arises.
A.X.I.S. Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 the only time you wanna carnage scissor is for the kill, like neutral B+C>632146D or for netting good damage like midscreen 5B>5C>632146D>66>5B>6A>j.C>j.D>j.C>j.D>623D and so forth.
-Ladon- Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 the only time you wanna carnage scissor is for the kill, like neutral B+C>632146D or for netting good damage like midscreen 5B>5C>632146D>66>5B>6A>j.C>j.D>j.C>j.D>623D and so forth. heyyy let's use a combo that's not garbage proration and start with 5C, should get you around 5k damage off a standard CS from mid-screen
Kain Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Unburstable 2932 damage with 50% meter than can be boosted to 3-4k in a good combo or with double CS<Unburstable 5520 damage with 100% meter that can be boosted to 6k damage in a combo. (No, it does not positive prorate for every hit in a combo before you used DBD, if you're reading that wrong) I find DBD unreliable though, because of its slow-ass startup and its slow-ass recovery after, meaning if you miss, you most likely set yourself back about 100% meter plus free CH, plus anyone can poke you out of it when in range due to lack of invul frames. CS is a good reversal when done close to the opponent, especially against 360s and 720s. Anywhere further is asking for a CH combo to the face.
-Ladon- Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 rapiding ID is much much more safer than trying to CS reversal, granted if you know the person well enough to pull off IB-CS go for it but I would never suggest it as a standard reversal method also you can be grabbed out of cs very, very, very easily considering your only invuln frames come from startup
What_The_Factor Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 So, I read from pg1-6. Guess all the good stuff is in pages afterwards. Anyway, I don't have much trouble with Jins, so I guess I'm doing things right. Against scrubby jins, machine-gun 5A from full/near full screen and wait for him to run in with his Ice Car (yeah, 5A beats icecar, so does 5B). Again, block low till they jump, then if they're approaching RIGHT above you, either ID early half the time (so they don't anticipate it, can't be taught to ID every time they jump, now can you?), or what I prefer, dash right under em. Usually online and irl I've been seeing Jins really liking to cross you up with j.D. I know it's simple to block, I know sometimes you can anticipate it, but I don't know, if I fall for it once in the match, the frustration I feel toward the other player overwhelms me and I can't focus. If I block it I won't get hit for the match. It's more psychological than hp damage for me, you may not care, but just run under him if he's too close. Also good jins will try to make you learn to DP, or not DP, depending, by either shooting/not shooting their pi/4 radian icicle (236B midair) to either make you get hit and your 6A whiffs, or to make you think you're gonna get 236B'd, and not 6A, and they get a combo/block-string in. If you're gonna burst, unless you are GOING to die, don't burst right before he j.D's you and ends his air combo. I've seen so many people do this, and it applies to every matchup, but don't burst at the end of combos. Edit: Also remember in the corner game while in a Burger King (BK) combo, your Devoured by Darkness DOES have about 2 invincibility frames. A burst of his during a 5D can still net you the DBD hit... It just hits him as he's floating down from his burst. (Same applies to a lot of characters, I just BK against jins a lot more often than other characters [except maybe ragna] ) Double Edit: Obvious advice is obvious, but Ice Car has 2 hits for 3/4 of the versions. I usually can IB both of them, but worst case scenario, practice your timing for IBing the 2nd hit for the B/C and for the D versions (They're barely different, but not being able to punish someone isn't cool). IB -> CH -> Jin going
-Ladon- Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 BKing against a good jin can get you in a terrible zoning situation that you don't want to play, if you wanna do it mid-combo try to make sure you can either A.) anticipate burst or B.) guarantee the kill(post-burst or a 5k bk-cs setup) jins zoning you with ice car are terrible jins, no questions asked, he should be playing the bait game, not you, ice car is probably the easiest punishable special he has off IB other than the respective DPs. also would like to add if you notice a lot of 50% heat-wakeup dp-rapid out happening, BKing through a C DP is a solid strategy when they're at 50 or above, once again this is for someone who actually plays a DP game like that, certainly don't do it on any good jin players, but it's a really good way to get burst out of the way or go for an unburstable kill.
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