Commanderoftroy Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 yeah that is my problem with several things, backdashing collider anything that isn't a fluid move I have problems with getting it off without touching the gate I am working on my other controler in ranked, I'm nowhere near ready to try the stick in anything serious yet. I can pull the 720 off alot easier than the pad but I am still touching the gate, But with I seem to have trouble mostly with Backdashes and collider (without touching the gate that is, first time using a stick in years since GGX). I do in notice general 720 Off of C and D attacks alot easier and 41236 is also, than the fightpads. Yeah i can not do a backdash 720 for the life of me let alone not hitting the gate i cant really get the 720 to come out even out of 2d without hitting the gate im trying to figure out the right are to do it in its my first time using one. I can get the collider to go off a lot more often than the stick on the controller but i have to think about it still and i hit the gate as well.
-Papercuts Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 As for 5C->5D->BSledge, you can 360A between the C and D even without instant blocking...and you can always backdash the Sledge and 360B. One thing to note about 5D -> BSledge in particular is you can use it to bait the backdash 360B. After they backdash the sledge you can backdash and do a 360A while their throw whiffs. If they backdash 720 you'll obviously get beat. It's also pretty dangerous in general since they can IB 360/720 after 5D but it won't hurt to know. I would've messed with it some more but recording the CPU Tager doing 5D > Sledge > backdash 360 sometimes made him jump up and poke the air after I backdash his sledge.
ShinsoBEAM Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 One thing to note about 5D -> BSledge in particular is you can use it to bait the backdash 360B. After they backdash the sledge you can backdash and do a 360A while their throw whiffs. If they backdash 720 you'll obviously get beat. It's also pretty dangerous in general since they can IB 360/720 after 5D but it won't hurt to know. I would've messed with it some more but recording the CPU Tager doing 5D > Sledge > backdash 360 sometimes made him jump up and poke the air after I backdash his sledge. Do you even need to IB the 5D to 360A grab the sledge? Also im p. sure you can normal grab Tager right out of the B sledge, but considering how wrong I have been before I suggest take this part with a grain of salt.
Raiderwarlord99 Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 No you don't need to IB 5D to 360a/720 the sledge. If you IB 5D you can also 360b the sledge as well.
Tofu Warrior Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 No you don't need to IB 5D to 360a/720 the sledge. If you IB 5D you can also 360b the sledge as well. I didn't know about the bolded part, I would just IB the 5D and 360+A just to be safe. But you're right, you don't have to IB, you just have to do the 360 really late because 5D has a lot of block stun. Anyway, if I know my opponent will back dash, what can I do about? So far I've just been using j.C to hit them meaty, but I want something more damaging. I know Atomic Collider will catch them if they're magnetized, so that's good. A well timed Sledge follow up is really good for stuffing 360+As because it stays active for so long, but it can be fickle at times. But what I want to know is what's a reliable way to punish back dash that doesn't require delaying moves, etc.
ShinsoBEAM Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 I didn't know about the bolded part, I would just IB the 5D and 360+A just to be safe. But you're right, you don't have to IB, you just have to do the 360 really late because 5D has a lot of block stun. Anyway, if I know my opponent will back dash, what can I do about? So far I've just been using j.C to hit them meaty, but I want something more damaging. I know Atomic Collider will catch them if they're magnetized, so that's good. A well timed Sledge follow up is really good for stuffing 360+As because it stays active for so long, but it can be fickle at times. But what I want to know is what's a reliable way to punish back dash that doesn't require delaying moves, etc. spark..., 6C might work too haven't really tried to much though.
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 If they are right up next to you when they backdash, just hold 360A or 720C. You'll catch them as they land from it.
Osuna Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 If they are right up next to you when they backdash, just hold 360A or 720C. You'll catch them as they land from it.360A is only active 1 frame, so unless you time it to be active the single frame of grounded recovery at the end of the backdash it needs to be a 360b, or the 720 you mentioned to be practical.
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 It isn't a specific timing, if they backdash, just hold the damned button down.
Osuna Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 It isn't a specific timing, if they backdash, just hold the damned button down.360 A gets more Start Up Frames if you hold it. like collider. Only B and 720 get active frames from holding.
A.X.I.S. Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 this match isn't terrible its not really hard, don't rely on back dash 360, if anything backdash 720. backdash 360 lose to backdash 360. i also used 2D or a late 5D to squash backdash tactics and it really makes those tagers cry.
Raiderwarlord99 Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 LOL but wouldn't your backdash 720 lose to my 720. Last to arrive but first to die my friend.
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 this match isn't terrible its not really hard, don't rely on back dash 360, if anything backdash 720. backdash 360 lose to backdash 360. i also used 2D or a late 5D to squash backdash tactics and it really makes those tagers cry. No backdash required. Let's look what you can normal block and 720 on their recovery. -2C -B Sledge -5D -6A -6B -Any jumping attack -5C All of those are unsafe vs a Tager with 50 meter. IB for best results. Opening move shenanigans Yeah yeah, you can 360A right away. Well, outside of that it's a rock paper scissors game that can be nullified with plain walking backwards. -623C beats Jump-ins -Jump-ins beat 360A -360A beats 623C -6A/5D/5C/6C beats Backdash -Backdash beats 360 -360 beats 6A/5D/5C/6C -6A/5D/5C/6C beats 623C -Jump-ins beat 6A/5D/5C/6C (Jumping with j.A beats all those moves.) -623C beats Jump-ins -Backdash just resets the distance if opponent jumps in. Walking backwards allows you to: -Punish 6A/5D/5C/6C with your own 6A -Punish whiffed 360A with 6A. -Block oncoming jumping attacks and get ready to backdash the 5D. -Of course, punish 623C as well. If you walk backwards while they backdash, then you both really are just in range for a poke war.
ShinsoBEAM Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 walking backwards seriously owns in this match as i discovered today... Also on normal block isn't b-sledge safe from 720 I thought it was plus frames by like a decent bit. Also along with jumping attacks, you can just mind game with j.2C gattlings afterwards which messup alot of the 720 mindgames, also if you do it crazy close to the ground it recovers before they can 720 unless they IB.
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Maybe you're right. I guess I'm just so used to his strings I IB them either way, kinda like Nu's swords.
ShinsoBEAM Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Maybe you're right. I guess I'm just so used to his strings I IB them either way, kinda like Nu's swords. Yeah I have been training myself to 360A on reaction to seeing B sledge. Also all the nu's I know now only really do the D blockstrings If I am in the air and know that I can't guess right and get a free B sledge out of it, or worse a 2D.
A.X.I.S. Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 No backdash required. Let's look what you can normal block and 720 on their recovery. -2C -B Sledge -5D -6A -6B -Any jumping attack -5C All of those are unsafe vs a Tager with 50 meter. IB for best results. Opening move shenanigans Yeah yeah, you can 360A right away. Well, outside of that it's a rock paper scissors game that can be nullified with plain walking backwards. -623C beats Jump-ins -Jump-ins beat 360A -360A beats 623C -6A/5D/5C/6C beats Backdash -Backdash beats 360 -360 beats 6A/5D/5C/6C -6A/5D/5C/6C beats 623C -Jump-ins beat 6A/5D/5C/6C (Jumping with j.A beats all those moves.) -623C beats Jump-ins -Backdash just resets the distance if opponent jumps in. Walking backwards allows you to: -Punish 6A/5D/5C/6C with your own 6A -Punish whiffed 360A with 6A. -Block oncoming jumping attacks and get ready to backdash the 5D. -Of course, punish 623C as well. If you walk backwards while they backdash, then you both really are just in range for a poke war. my favorite against tager walk back 5D, if it counter hits then easy 3k+ damage. you got this right to the tee i figured this out like a month ago. o_o
ShinsoBEAM Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 my favorite against tager walk back 5D, if it counter hits then easy 3k+ damage. you got this right to the tee i figured this out like a month ago. o_o this is what I do, I was having problems against the other tager starting with 6C .
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 you got this right to the tee i figured this out like a month ago. o_o Why did you wait for me to post it?
A.X.I.S. Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 Why did you wait for me to post it? i thought i did say step back some time back. anyways i just enjoyed the confusion of this match up. oh and no net.
Heroic_Legacy Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 Tager specifics right here on Tager: -360A can be followed up with 5B for a tech trap. If they don't tech, you can 5C AC 6C 5/j.D. ---5B spark bolt 5C AC works. -360B can be followed up with 2B for a tech trap. If they don't tech, you can 2C AC 6C 5/j.D.
ShinsoBEAM Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 lol wtf I had no idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKrbDrTfNQ&feature=related
A.X.I.S. Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 lol wtf I had no idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKrbDrTfNQ&feature=related i happened that before.
Mike Z Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 If he'd have held the 720, it would have worked. Why don't more people just hold it anyway, in situations where they "know" it will grab? :^(
A.X.I.S. Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 If he'd have held the 720, it would have worked. Why don't more people just hold it anyway, in situations where they "know" it will grab? :^( because they assume they got them, same thing with tagers backdash, people just don't hold the 720.
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