JackG Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Ragna Matchup Statistics Japanese Ranking: [finput][/finput] yet Personally: Punishes: Anti-airing: Zoning: Their game plan: Strategy: Char specific details:
SSMugen Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Ugh this match up is so annoying. It seem like all of Ragna's pressure strings are safe on block. Any tip's on how to get out of his pressure?
reaVer Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Probably 6D:p And 5K stops a lot of his attacks if timed well. Though tbh I'd rather be playing Rachel, V-13, etc etc than Ragna.
SSMugen Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 I dunno about Rachel but I"d definitely take V-13 over his shenanigans . Also, I was fighting a pretty good Ragna today and besides waiting for the eventual 6B, I was able to 2A him out of his 5D Dash Cancel pressure. Is this just a folly on his part or am I on to something?
JackG Posted July 3, 2009 Author Posted July 3, 2009 You can hit him out of 5d dash cancel as it's relatively unsafe, but any Ragna worth his salt won't just pressure unsafe stuff willy nilly. Unfortuntely I haven't been able to play this matchup too much yet, but I know that if he pressure something into 2b>3c, if you IB 2b you can 2d his 3c fora big damage. Also you can 6d his 6b all the time, but you have to train yourself to see it.
Spark Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Match up feels 5-5 for me personally. At the start of the round 2B beats, Ragna's 5B and 5C. 5B hit's Ragna when he is crouch blocking. The command dash after a few frames and the follow up go under Ragna's 2A, 5A, 5B, 2C, 6D, Hells Fang, and Gauntlet Hades, so if you know he's going to poke or chain into one of these you can 623AA through it. After blocking 5D just stand up because he can only chain into specials and none of them are low. You can counter the second part of 5D if you are close and IB the first hit, just watch out for the dash cancel. After 3C Ragna can jump cancel to try and reset pressure, or do TK GH and 2D for mix up, so here is your chance to escape or counter. After blocking 6A its the same as above, but he can do 6B for the overhead mix up also. The 6D j.D string is pretty annoying, but you can counter 6D if you watch for it. Overall the match up isn't too bad once you learn what options Ragna has at every point in his pressure strings. Oh also you should punish Whiff/Blocked DPs with 6C(CH) -> 214B(1Hit) -> 41236C(2Hits) -> 5C -> 236A -> 6C (6 Stars, A bit over 7000 DMG) linking 6C(CH) into 214B is a bit weird at first, but otherwise it's easy and does huge damage.
Kumlekar Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 This match seems pretty even even if I hate it. (Ragna's the only character i hate playing as and against.) I can't comment much as I've only seen one competent ragna player online.
qwerty Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 sometimes it doesn't hurt to throw out some one time gimmicks, like jump in j.D to bait his 6A or starting a j.2C loop but then air throwing. at least, that's how i beat the mean ragna players around here.
Blade Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 If you can predict and counter (D, 6D) his Gauntlet Hades mixup, Hells Fangs, or 2D (your 2D) I think that limits his pressure options, can someone confirm this? Also Ragna's 5B kick outpokes a lot and 5C has reach to it. Also Haku's 6A punishes Ragna's jump C dash in overhead. I play both and fought both, so that's what I've observed anyway.
reaVer Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 What I found out is that if you use barrier defense he'll create holes if he wishes to continue his endless spam.
Blade Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I really hate how useless D counters are against Ragnas DPs in this fight, any tips?
ryokoalways Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Don't try to D counter dps. If you see one coming, just block it, no need to get fancy. Catches are for Ragna's block strings and jump ins. IB something and punish. Catch gauntlet, fangs, overheads, drives. They are all relatively obvious and will look slow to you once you have enough experience (and of course, for the love of god don't panic with Hakumen and start spamming D).
Tsak Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 i still think TG GH is fast as hell and it will never look slow
ryokoalways Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I don't mean by reaction, at least not from a neutral standpoint. Hakumen players should not catch unless they are looking for something specific. If I think a fang is coming, for example, I am looking for only fang (or something significantly slower) and will only press D if a fang comes. Otherwise I keep blocking and try to find another opening through IB or another guess.
Tsak Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 for Ragna just block low in the beginning and if his block string is still going and you haven't barrier pushed him off start blocking high he can only do some many low moves that are quick from mid distance barrier guard is your friend srsly like barrier guard 2-3 moves and wow your in luck your now outta his 3C range GGs block high (lol and please don't get hit by 2D) 2A out of 6B there you go you just broke down basic ragna pressure strings watch out for dp tech traps and tick throws etc
Siefer Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 You can hit him out of 5d dash cancel as it's relatively unsafe, but any Ragna worth his salt won't just pressure unsafe stuff willy nilly. Unfortuntely I haven't been able to play this matchup too much yet, but I know that if he pressure something into 2b>3c, if you IB 2b you can 2d his 3c fora big damage. Also you can 6d his 6b all the time, but you have to train yourself to see it. This may be true, but I'm not sure why Ragna would ever do this string on block. I don't know why you guys think this match-up is even. Ragna can stuff every aerial advance Hakumen does, and if you start mixing up counters in the air, it's time for air throws. Take away aerial mobility and Hakumen is exposed for the slow, slow, slow person that he is. Ragna can now approach from the air and generally do safe strings until you guess wrong and get pushed into the corner. The only time Hakumen really has advantage over Ragna is when he's trapped him in the corner and does massive damage nonsense on him. I would love to hear otherwise, but this is my favorite match-up with Ragna because it's so 1 dimensional.
ryokoalways Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Ragna has one way to fight hakumen, up close. Hakumen has absolutely no problem with fighting you up close. None whatsoever. And your case in point regarding not able to approach from the air makes no sense. If that's true ragna also can't approach hakumen from the air. It goes both ways, this is an out-think the other guy situation, not "omg I can't approach from air because he can dp or 6a my face". Slow Hakumen (I don't agree with that by the way) isn't a disadvantage, because he still has to be in your face to do anything. As long Hakumen's opponent is up close, he really doesn't care. Also, Ragna is a mid risk/high reward character. Hakumen immediately turns this into high risk/ mid reward. You take too many chances and hakumen will bust you open for half life. Ragna has no health. Ragna's other advantage is amazingly good normals, which Hakumen, again, doesn't care because Hakumen isn't trying to outpoke you anyways. Not to mention if you are too aggressive IB catch is free damage for hakumen.
Siefer Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Ragna has one way to fight hakumen, up close. Hakumen has absolutely no problem with fighting you up close. None whatsoever. And your case in point regarding not able to approach from the air makes no sense. If that's true ragna also can't approach hakumen from the air. It goes both ways, this is an out-think the other guy situation, not "omg I can't approach from air because he can dp or 6a my face". Slow Hakumen (I don't agree with that by the way) isn't a disadvantage, because he still has to be in your face to do anything. As long Hakumen's opponent is up close, he really doesn't care. Also, Ragna is a mid risk/high reward character. Hakumen immediately turns this into high risk/ mid reward. You take too many chances and hakumen will bust you open for half life. Ragna has no health. Ragna's other advantage is amazingly good normals, which Hakumen, again, doesn't care because Hakumen isn't trying to outpoke you anyways. Not to mention if you are too aggressive IB catch is free damage for hakumen. Why does everyone think there is only one way to play Ragna? Ragna doesn't have to be in your face to win, he can play passive-aggressive and take advantage of whiffs and mistakes almost as well as anyone in the game from virtually any distance. He can apply a limited, SAFE pressure game that, believe it or not, doesn't always end with D crap in your face, to keep you honest and to exploit holes at the right time. I don't understand what makes Hakumen so great against Ragna up close that most of the other cast doesn't have. If you're relying on his counters, that puts you into a dangerous guessing game, where if you guess wrong, that's free 35-45% damage for Ragna. It's a guess in his favor because he controls what he does on his strings. Unless Hakumen can IB a 2A or 5B AND punish before Ragna can do anything else, he is no different than anyone else. Why is Ragna taking all of these risks against you when he doesn't have to? He can control the tone and space of the match and break you down methodically, believe it or not, not everyone rushes down all the time with Ragna. Ragna only HAS to play this way against superior zoners (when there's an actual opening) because unlike in other match-ups, he isn't the one establishing the tone, and he can't punish nearly as easily. And uh, it works the other way around too, if you make too many mistakes, Ragna will bust you open for 50% life, except this time, he can do that offensively AND defensively. Hakumen's lack of speed hurts because it allows Ragna to control the tempo and spacing of the match that much easier. If Hakumen had Tao's mobility, Ragna can no longer actively control the space around him, rather he has to take a passive stance and react to HER (and sometimes, guess right), instead of forcing reactions. This is kind of similar to how Ragna can handle Tager, but IMO, Tager is a lot more dangerous to Ragna. What is there to "out-think"? If you jump, and he takes a long time doing this, you will get punished every time unless you block. If you try to be fancy and do counters in the air to mess up the timing of the jump, or think that's going to be your answer to everything, Ragna will adapt and the guessing game will once again be in his favor. Now he can meet you halfway and air throw you, now he can delay responses and DP you, he can just wait for you to whiff and punish you with SJ C or D into combo, etc. I don't see how this is in Hakumen's favor at all. There's obviously something here that you know that no Hakumen I've played has ever known, because I've only lost to Hakumen when he's trapped me in the corner (or rather, I accidently put myself into the corner). I hope you can supply the answer to make this match-up less boring and 1 dimensional for me to play against.
Tsak Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 lol right i mean there is no need for Ragna to rush when he can just punish/outpoke/fish for CHs into 40%+ ive never had a problem with hakumen outpoking me infact the only time hakumen has given me trouble is when he gets a good CH in the corner for all my life and even then i got blood kain for the win i play this match like i do Ragna mirrors search and destroy pokes cuz everyone tries to RTSD but people don't realize Ragna is better at playing the counterpoke into all your life well he does it well vs certain characters i'd say he definitely needs to rush it down vs v-13 and Arakune everyone else it seems like you can just stay mid distance and poke destroy everything
qwerty Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 hey so next time you block hell's fang and it's followup, remember that you have a guaranteed 6C CH (even if you don't ib). and we all know what's guaranteed after 6C....
Kumlekar Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 hey so next time you block hell's fang and it's followup, remember that you have a guaranteed 6C CH (even if you don't ib). and we all know what's guaranteed after 6C.... I seriously doubt that a good ragna would followup hells fang if the first hit was blocked. As for counters being a dangerous game, that might be true, but haku only has to land two combos a round to win this. a counter gives you one. I also question if every good ragna player can stop his string immediatly on seeing an instant block.
TyrantShark Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 If they have meter and know you're competent, a good Ragna will RC. I started a Counter Assault against a Ragna's string today and he RC'd, paused and countered.
pulsr Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I dunno, turtle zoning Hakumen seems like a bad idea, You kinda wanna kill him before he gets orbs to mash Hotaru in your face or Enma his way to victory.
Blade Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Some things to note about Carnage Scissors I found: Hitbox of the first hit 'moves forward' the longer the move is out, in other words, the closer you are to Ragna's CS startup, the later you wait to catch it with D moves. If it's done far away, you do D as soon as he gets close or just before. If you block the first hit, and the second does come out, the D point would be just during the red surge of it coming out, or you can counter with normals.
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