[CPEX] Blazblue: Chronophantasma Extend News and Gameplay Discussion 3.0

[StylisH]

As a Bullet, I'm more annoyed by the people with gorilla normals that I can't dodge through. Even Terumi can zone her by simply pressing 5D and j.D over and over again.

 

Hakumen C normals tha gawd

[Corbenik]

214D guard points projectiles. Make use of it. 41236C is projectile invincible and can dodge things as big as Tempest Dahlia from half a screen away and you can combo off it meterless on counterhit, make use of it. 3C goes under most projectiles, make use of it.

I'm sure all of these moves were intended to provide ways to deal with projectiles and zoning in general, but they just don't. Afterburner in cpex is incredibly unsafe at any range due to high recovery, capture's projectile invuln starts pretty late and most of the time you can be punished with a normal even if you dodge the projectile, 3c as a projectile dodge doesn't actually slip below a lot of stuff. You're not wrong in that each of these tools can punish the opponent if used correctly, but you are exaggerating their usefulness and Bullet's ability to deal with zoning.

God I can't wait for CF.

Edit: Since I recently dropped CP because of all of these bad matchups, I thought I'd expand on my frustrations. Lambda actually isn't a bad matchup for the simple reason that dodging her projectile usually puts Bullet in a position to punish. But for Nu you're either not close enough to punish or gravity pool stops you from doing so by crippling your already crippled movement. Afterburner is never an option to guard projectiles because her projectiles lead to automatic blockstrings. Most characters can just fire the same projectile twice and get free damage (which I'll often trade for a heat level). Capture and 3c both get slowed by the gravity pool.

And then you have Amane, where projectile invuln doesn't actually help in any way. So I can't "make use of" jack shit in that matchup.

So yeah, highly anticipating CF, even if just for Bullet's almost fullscreen drive and buffed afterburner.

[Dreiko]

I never said these aren't bad MUs, I said you still can do something about them. You still have options. They're bad MUs, they're not quit-the-game-level/avoid-fighting-them-entirely bad matchups. That was what I was saying.

 

 

Mainly about 214D, you can get a mindgame going by holding it. Nu especially removes it but due to Lamdba's forced 2-sword Ds, it is actually much more workable than you may think.

 

 

As SOWL said, people with huge wide normals are a pain. Also, chars that do what she does better while outspacing her DP and also have better mobility such as Azrael Ragna Jin and Valk are the real issue I think, though Nu is definitely a big problem too due to just how much damage she gets off of full screen confirms.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Quitting because your character has more than a few bad matchups is kinda not solving anything, all your doing is depriving yourself. Either figure out how to play the matchup or use another character that stands a chance.

[Corbenik]

So the problem with Bullet is everyone does what she does but with better something. Her damage is generally capped at 6k with full resources unless you land a once every thirty matchups hit. Even characters with notoriously bad neutral have better neutral than her and better damage. Bad neutral/high damage characters are normally low tier anyway, but Bullet's damage doesn't even hit higher than say Ragna's.

I'm really sorry, and maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I just can't accept the idea that Azrael is a harder matchup for Bullet than Nu. I've played hundreds more matches of vs Nu than I have any other character, and from what I've experienced and what I've seen from high level play (not mine, I'm trash) Nu vs Bullet is at best a 7-3 matchup. With characters like Azrael you just run into the standard problem of them have better normals than you.

[Dreiko]

So the problem with Bullet is everyone does what she does but with better something. Her damage is generally capped at 6k with full resources unless you land a once every thirty matchups hit. Even characters with notoriously bad neutral have better neutral than her and better damage. Bad neutral/high damage characters are normally low tier anyway, but Bullet's damage doesn't even hit higher than say Ragna's.

I'm really sorry, and maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I just can't accept the idea that Azrael is a harder matchup for Bullet than Nu. I've played hundreds more matches of vs Nu than I have any other character, and from what I've experienced and what I've seen from high level play (not mine, I'm trash) Nu vs Bullet is at best a 7-3 matchup. With characters like Azrael you just run into the standard problem of them have better normals than you.

 

Nu is definitely the worst MU, but chars like Azrael are also up there but for vastly different reasons. The initial complaint mentioned none of the Azrael-relevant reasons, this is what I was addressing.

 

 

Full resource 6A in the corner leads to a LOT of damage even without full resources and lands often enough too. Just with heat it's 5K and you get lvl 2 heat back, full resource it becomes 6.8k without even going OD. Ragna meterless gets 1.5k less off of his same-speed overhead that does not gatling to a +1 normal. I think it's silly to say she does less damage than him when comparing max damage. On average, sure, she gets a bunch of 2K combos to build the heat, that is definitely true.

 

 

My main issue is this; who said anything about CF being any better. For all we know it could be worse. Might as well get used to the bad MUs now. Worst case scenario you learned to deal with them and still know how to do so in CF, which would be a good thing in the case of there still being bad MUs that need to be dealt with. Best case scenario, you get to feel relief for not having to use a char with that many bad MUs any more when CF hits. It's a win win.

 

 

If you don't and then come CF Bullet still has issues (as a char with her mobility most often will in a game like BB), you'll be out on your ass.

[Corbenik]

CF is already better because we have Nu's many nerfs and a fullscreen drive. Regardless of Bullet's other confirmed buffs (and some notable nerfs) this is going to even out her worst matchups. They might not be even, but they'll be better. I'm a lot more okay with a character that goes 4.5/5.5 against every char than one that has 4 or 5 7/3 and then a bunch of 4.5/5.5 matchups.

[Dreiko]

CF is already better because we have Nu's many nerfs and a fullscreen drive. Regardless of Bullet's other confirmed buffs (and some notable nerfs) this is going to even out her worst matchups. They might not be even, but they'll be better. I'm a lot more okay with a character that goes 4.5/5.5 against every char than one that has 4 or 5 7/3 and then a bunch of 4.5/5.5 matchups.

Well I just disagree with you about that, but time will tell. You're forgetting Nine, too, who knows how she'll play like.  I think it's just too early to say there won't be any so and so MUs for any character in CF.

 

Bullet's nerf on red lockon will suck but that's just the one thing we know of right now, who knows what else changed. Like I said I feel insecure about determining how anything in CF will be at this point.

[TagerTime]

I'm just glad the notion of Bullet being a better grappler char than Tager has long since past. Tager has left her in the dust.

[Poultrygeist]

I'm just glad the notion of Bullet being a better grappler char than Tager has long since past. Tager has left her in the dust.

Yeah but now in CF Relius is going to be a better grappler than Tager <3

[Corbenik]

The bullet subforum members have been developing and adding a lot of serpentine setups, so she's not actually as bad of a grappler as you'd think. It hasn't really been set in the meta enough for people to really respect it, which has it's ups and downs. The addition of a command throw in CF should help a ton though.

[Dreiko]

Ever since her 720 didn't need 100 meter and was doable off of heat, it became a viable thing. I just wouldn't call her a grappler due to the infrequency of the grabs. Bang is more so a grappler than she is and nobody calls him one, lol. (don't forget about his seal super, it's a teleporting, tracking air AND ground command grab, it has bullet's 720 beat in everything besides post-flash startup and in OD it does almost as much damage as hers too lol)

[Dark Ranger88]

I wonder why they didn't just give Bullet a standard running dash like Ragna's. It's not like anything in her offense or neutral is so drastically overpowered that they needed to give her a step-type run, like Hakumen for example. I mean her lvl 2 D moves were incredibly annoying in 1.0, but that was only after she had got heat-up state.

 

I say this because a standard dash would help her chase down zoners and adjust spacing against gorillas.

[Corbenik]

Oh yeah, I definitely wouldn't call her an effective grappler. It'd be cool though, and from what I can tell of her 1.1 > cpex > cf changes I think they're trying to head in that direction.

I actually did a tl on why I think they designed her with as many limitations as they have.

https://twitter.com/ctlaxel/status/626882414711832576

Tl;dr they're probably afraid of making her overpowered.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I wonder why they didn't just give Bullet a standard running dash like Ragna's. It's not like anything in her offense or neutral is so drastically overpowered that they needed to give her a step-type run, like Hakumen for example. I mean her lvl 2 D moves were incredibly annoying in 1.0, but that was only after she had got heat-up state.

I say this because a standard dash would help her chase down zoners and adjust spacing against gorillas.

2B says Wut?

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[StylisH]

I wonder why they didn't just give Bullet a standard running dash like Ragna's. It's not like anything in her offense or neutral is so drastically overpowered that they needed to give her a step-type run, like Hakumen for example. I mean her lvl 2 D moves were incredibly annoying in 1.0, but that was only after she had got heat-up state.

I say this because a standard dash would help her chase down zoners and adjust spacing against gorillas.

With her damage output and ability to retain heat levels alone this would be a major problem. Being cornered by Bullet has never been an enjoyable situation, and less so now. Giving her a normal run means:

1. Dash 2B is now one of the best spacing normals in the game because of it's speed, range, and ability to low profile at a distance. Think Litchi 2B[m] on crack.

2. Stagger pressure out of this world. Her 2A is already goodish, but having 5C behind that makes her frightening because of her damage output off 5C CH or 5[C] fatals. Having normal dash means you respect even a smidgen and eat dash 720 while expecting 5C.

3. You'd never get her off of you, unless you mash out of 6A, which is slow anyway. Frame traps and staggers for days. See #2 for reference.

4. Normal run after 236A is a major threat because she gets a damn near free way to cross half the screen, and 623C means you take huge risks trying to jump over it. This puts you further in the corner, where Bullet causes the most mayhem.

Those are just off the top of my head. She wouldn't be broken of course, but it would mean her options shoot through the roof, especially when you add her damage and low execution ceiling. Why play Ragna when I can blow people up worse with Bullet?

Arc just won't accept that.

Edited August 1, 2015 by StylisH

[TD]

Her huge rack also weighs her down, clearly. Look at her stance. Is standing like that even healthy for one's posture?

Anyway bullet is well rounded with some obvious weaknesses. I think minus her most terrible matchups, she stands a chance against the entire cast including the zoners, when the bullet's mind is quick and decisive. I know I dislike fighting her, as a zoner (that isn't nu).

[BlackYakuzu94]

I mean she's a grappler, complaining she has a problem against Zoners is like complaining about the sky is blue. Even back in 1.0 and 1.1 I doubt she did much better against Nu than she did now.

 

Just grind the matchup some more and evaluate how you approach her and the appropriate reactions to certain situations that arise themselves.

[TD]

I mean, why is the sky blue? Why can't it be green? Or purple? Why can't we have polka dots? Life is so unfair sometimes.

(Don't forget the bullet forum if you need help~)

[BlackYakuzu94]

I mean, why is the sky blue? Why can't it be green? Or purple? Why can't we have polka dots? Life is so unfair sometimes.

(Don't forget the bullet forum if you need help~)

 

Get the Dragon Balls and we can go to Namek then. :P

[Dreiko]

Get the Dragon Balls and we can go to Namek then. :P

But the only reason to go to namek is to get the dragonballs. What is this, namekception?

 

 

(but yes Bullet with a run would be silly, just make her able to travel space better like how Hakumen can do it with his Kishuu)

[BlackYakuzu94]

Or make that dash grab she has faster.

Hilariously, I watched about 3 matches of a 14th Dan Bullet vs. 13th Dan Nu. The bullet won just by making correct decisions and playing patient :V Even landed an Astral in one.

I don't think people realize how strong Bullet gets when she gets at least lv. 1; like holy shit, I don't even play her and her EVERYTHING gets better with a heat level. And y'all trying to giver a dash? Plz.

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[TD]

She can kill you... Neutral becomes so freaking hard and everything suddenly feels congested. She makes you want to hold block from fullscreen. (Maybe not that serious, but damn, whiff one thing and she can realistically get in your face with heat up full screen, at least as zoners). That circle of death is all-consuming. There is no escape.

 

Really reminds me of ABA from gg. Laughably weak to start, but give her a hit or time to bloodpack, and her horsepower goes from 0 to 60 in 3 seconds.

She scary. Bullet definitely knows how to break a back (including her own, apparently lol). 

[StylisH]

Another note about Lvl 2 Heat up:  In the corner you are fucked.  Upon knockdown you have to deal with a few scenarios, all of which can lead to sickening amounts of damage and/or another knockdown into the same situation, depending on what her meter situation is like and if she has a burst to burn:  

A.  Safe jump after knockdown, which isn't too bad unless she has 100 meter and 720s you for shiggles.  Or you have to deal with empty jump 2B or 6A, which is 5k AND back into Heat lvl 2.   

B.  J.[D] the gawd.  Roll forward or DP at your own risk.

C.  My personal favorite:  6[D] or 2[D].  Roll and be fucked.  Mash and be fucked.  DP and....you get the picture.  At lvl 2 you pretty much have to guess high or low because of the whole glow aura and if you guess wrong, be prepared to eat 5k or 6k if she's holding 50 meter.  Don't get conditioned enough to get put in this situation.  I've stolen a LOT of matches this way.

This is one of the main reasons why Bullet is kind of meh in neutral, because her corner game is disgusting.

[floatwater]

Hello, I came here to tell you that J.D/6D/2D aren't even really threatening on oki. even at level 2 heat.


6D/2D can just be DP'd along with 6D being reactable (even with it's increased startup after lock on) lol at having it being a "guess" 

J.D clashes but there isn't really a point in trying to clash with it because she just burns her heat anyways on block

it's nice that she is plus and can continue pressure, but even then her pressure is pretty tame. 

her safe jump is good for what it is IF someone lets you do it, they could just vary their roll timing and get out of it. honestly I don't think her tech chase options are too hot fire. don't really want to test that shit

Like, the character is just gimped really. it's nice that her hurtbox is pretty odd in that she can dodge some wild ass shit. 

tl;dr this characrer fucking sucks even when she can control that big ass space with level 2 J.D