[CF] Noel Vermillion Loktest and Changes Discussion.

[LunaKage]

Speaking of 2D, can I win/beat out low attacks even if my opponent cancels into one during a block string ---> Impossible... seems unlikely that foot invincibility is 1 frame.

 

Gatling Routes from 6B = nothing in particular

 

Double Fenrir = Haven't tested it out yet

 

Haida SMP =

22B no longer has SMP

22C no longer has SMP

 

does 2B > 2B > 6A > jJC(3) > jD > 2D work? = jD doesn't work (hasn't changed?)

 

does 6A > hJC(3) > j2C > j4D > 2D work? = no j4D

 

can you do 5C > 2D > Bullet Rain? You can.

 

Can you do... Grab > AH? From my experience, you can't.

 

Sureipunir's performance / ability = Bloom Trigger > Fenrir > Toor > something that looks like Canon , damage 2040

 

can you pick up from close range Chamber or Bloom Trigger? Haven't tested it out yet

 

Noel J4D is deleted / gone. 2D is  the trailer's small bounce-looking move. looks like 6D is now what was J4D's later half motion / animation, however, it has been altered.

was able to do 2B＞6A＞6C＞6D＞c4D＞A optic barrel

5C5D did not connect. Might have gotten slower?
The trailer's J2D, from whatever height, it knocks down the opponent
From 3C, you can now instant ukemi / tech、perhaps D gatlings can be added
 
Wanted Strong-Points
・the lower portion of 5B's hitbox
・post-Revolver Blast followup situations
・Optic Barrel's attack range
Weak points
・2D's foot invuln from frame 1 is gone
・returns from CR(?)
 

・J4D is gone
・JD is the same as CP's JD?

and the answer is…against characters where midscreen JD is hard to input / connect, if you go from an anti-air, it looks like you can only use Revolver Blast.... seriously?

Speaking of 6D, it is now CR 6B... wasn't a low attack.

 

Translations credited to 7thFonon

[LunaKage]

6C(2) no longer wall sticks.

[Litherain-XIII]

Noel:

2D motion has changed, it's now a short jump over a short distance. 6D motion has changed. It now moves forward a long distance to attack, and she low-profiles during the animation so she has body and projectile invulnerabiliy during the period.　4D has gained projectile invulnerability. 6C fully combos both hits on a standing opponent. Revolver Blast input has changed, reducing accidental input

[LunaKage]

I knew that was why they changed the input. I'm still salty about it. At least you came bearing buffs Lith, I was getting a little tired of only hearing the negative things.

 

So anyway, if what was said about her 6D animation now being her old j.4D post-landing animation, I think that might be really effective as a neutral tool, combined with the invuln, the hitbox on j.4D was pretty huge. 4D having projectile invuln again is nice, 6C comboing on standing is a little weird to me, I really hope that's not a huge part of her BnBs.

[Litherain-XIII]

Yeah me too. 6D seems to be a viable option for neutral not to mention we can most likely still use OB to cancel it on hit, block or whiff which is good and might be a safe way to get in occasionally if we still +2 on block from it. The input change for RB was kinda obvious also 22b and 22c now have no smp may spark a return of some variations of her Haida loop that could possibly replace her old cp Era corner push methods. The changes still do look scary overall but those buffs do have some good impressions for me. I'm very excited about the 6D neutral thing being basically the new 5d from the old cs1 days kinda funny

[Litherain-XIII]

Tentative Noel combos from the CF loctest

- Midscreen -

・2B>6A>dlhjC(2HIT)>jD>5C>6A>5C>22BC>dc>6C>5D>6A>5C>22B(multi)

・2B>6A>6C>6D>4D>A Optic>dc>sliding 6C>5D>5C>6B>5C>6B>BT

First one might be character specific

 

Part 2

- Corner -

・2B>6A>hjC>jD>6B>5D>22BC(B whiff)>dc>6C>4D>AT>22B(multi)

・2B>6A>jC>j2C>air dash j2C>jD>6D>5C>6A>5C>22B(multi)

・5B>5C>forward hj2C>jD>6A>6B>4D>AT〜

 

Seemingly they buffed her j.2C

[LunaKage]

Those sound awful. So far they're just nerfed versions of her CPEX combos, but now just confirming into them is character specific, since j.C > j.D is awful and doesn't work on everyone.

 

Hopefully, there are more loktests, because this one is just not for us.

[Finuve]

Combo routes definitely are disappointing. Id love to see 22BC go away. I really liked BBCP combo routes and would rather see something closer to that than CPEX. And with SMP removed CP style combos could be even better with the j.D options we would have. Hopefully people find some better options or there are more tweaks for the next loketest

[LunarCode]

Speaking of 6D, it is now CR 6B... wasn't a low attack.

So does this mean that we lose both our overhead and our low from chain revolver? 

[LunaKage]

That what it sounds like, yeah. It's a pretty bleak future if these changes stick.

[Adsfzxczxc]

BBCF closed loketest impressions (from Kouya, translated by SoWL)

 - 5A doesn't hit crouching opponents. Instead, its recovery is reduced (Bang couldn't punish it with his 5A on regular block). 
 - 5C feels like its start-up is increased, but its recovery is reduced, so it's better on whiff.
 - 6C's second hit floats lower than in the last loketest?
 - The reload animation of the Drives has become shorter.
 - Starter 2D seems to force crouching.
 - If Drive 6C is blocked, the advantage you get even including the reload animation is about 5 times better than before.
 - Drive 6D goes behind the opponent if you're too close or they're in the corner. However, it's easy to react to thanks to its animation. Still hits low. Since it has body and projectile invuls, you may use it against guard cancels or other reversals.
 - Chamber Shot now wall-bounces even on mid-screen, so it's easy to follow up. You can RC and follow it up with dash 5B.
 - Revolver Blast's follow-up knocks down the opponent a bit closer than before.
 - Spring Raid's untech time is reduced.

Source:

https://twitter.com/kouya_sg2d/status/636125952062324736

https://twitter.com/kouya_sg2d/status/636127021395894273

https://twitter.com/kouya_sg2d/status/636128899106082816

https://twitter.com/kouya_sg2d/status/636129996474445824

https://twitter.com/kouya_sg2d/status/636131208011755520

 

[L0n3l1eR]

hmm cool changes, so what does he mean with 2d forces crouching overhead?, i would like to see videos of noel in BBCF 

[LunaKage]

5A is expected to be a typo or something, since 5A ALREADY is unpunishable on normal block, it's only -3. While it's true that I would love for 5A to have better frames, if it does in fact whiff on crouching opponents, the move is officially useless. 5A moves that whiff on crouchers usually are on characters who are taller, allowing them to use them as anti-air moves, they also usually have about 2.5 times the range that Noel's 5A has. If Noel's 5A whiffs on crouchers, it still cannot be used as an anti-air, and will still have shitty range, making this a huge nerf. Some people are saying that he may have meant to say 6A, which would make a lot more sense. Since 6A whiffed on crouchers in CS1, so it's not a huge stretch for them to do it again, even though that's a whole other bag of worms that I really hate that I might have to deal with again. The idea that they made 6A unpunishable on normal block, would mean that 6A would be much safer as an anti-air on whiff, which is desperately needed, so I'll deal with the whiffing on crouchers thing, as long as my AA isn't complete garbage. However, if it is in fact 6A and not 5A, then it strikes me as interesting that they changed Revolver Blast's input in order to reduce the amount of screw ups when trying to go for Super-Jump-Forward j.C, but then they go and make screwing up a microdash 5A even worse, by having 6A whiff on crouchers.

5C having more startup, but less recovery is fine for me honestly, though I wouldn't say it's better on whiff, since it should equal out to be mostly the same from start to finish. The biggest difference would be on block and hit, here's hoping we have another plus frame move, but I doubt it.

Is the 6C thing a nerf? Or a buff? I mean, it really depends on how her combos work now. With 2D no longer being a GIANT RAINBOW OF DEATH it's no longer possible to do 6C(2) > 2D combos, so I'm not entirely sure how to rate this one.

Drive reload buff. Good.

2D forcing crouch. Again, it depends on how her new combos work. With 2D forcing crouch, she can't do CH 2D > 214A anymore, which is obviously bad, but with the change to reload and d.6C, it's entirely possible we may have d.6C > reload combos, in the form of 2D(force crouch) > d.5C > d.6C > Reload > 5A? > 5B > 5C > 3C > etc. So who knows? The nerf they did to her combo routes when going into the air really hurt my hype for stuff like this, since d.6C > d.6A > d.5B > 236A~66 > 5A > 5C > j.2C > j.4D isn't possible anymore due to j.4D being gone, and replacing it with j.D is going to be so situational and inconsistent that it really just gives me a headache thinking about it.

d.6C buff, good, about damn time. here's hoping that it's actual frame advantage, I don't need much, but +3 or +4 would be a godsend.

d.6D thing, not entirely sure what he's saying here. I assume that d.6D is going to be the same animation as her new 6D, which is her old j.4D's post landing animation. So when he says it goes behind an opponent, does he mean it crosses up? I assume so since he said it's easy to react to. This is a pretty cool thing maybe. I mean, people still get hit with Assault Through, so I'm sure I'll get plenty of hate for this new broken crossup.

Chamber Shot buff, alright, that's pretty good I suppose. Again, combo news wont make me happy until I hear the words "she has enders that aren't j.D routes, that are actually good" that or "j.D momentum is back" which will let us use similar combos to CP1. Either is fine, but how it is now, just, please.

RB Followup. Good. Fine.

Spring Raid nerf. Literally why? Who at Arcsys is looking at Spring Raid and going "this move needs to be worse"? It doesn't make any sense. I mean, on normal hit it was super bad, and on counter hit, we could land a combo, but it was already kind of tough to do so, and led to a short combo that didn't do much. So like, what was the problem? If anything, I'd say that Raid needed to be BETTER, since there's really not a whole lot of situations where you would use it, outside of weird gimmicks, and the obligatory OD Raid confirm.

[Finuve]

2D forcing crouch. Again, it depends on how her new combos work. With 2D forcing crouch, she can't do CH 2D > 214A anymore, which is obviously bad, but with the change to reload and d.6C, it's entirely possible we may have d.6C > reload combos, in the form of 2D(force crouch) > d.5C > d.6C > Reload > 5A? > 5B > 5C > 3C > etc. So who knows? The nerf they did to her combo routes when going into the air really hurt my hype for stuff like this, since d.6C > d.6A > d.5B > 236A~66 > 5A > 5C > j.2C > j.4D isn't possible anymore due to j.4D being gone, and replacing it with j.D is going to be so situational and inconsistent that it really just gives me a headache thinking about it.

Chamber Shot buff, alright, that's pretty good I suppose. Again, combo news wont make me happy until I hear the words "she has enders that aren't j.D routes, that are actually good" that or "j.D momentum is back" which will let us use similar combos to CP1. Either is fine, but how it is now, just, please.

Red the first paragraph I left and thought "Well hopefully momentum is back and we can just go back to j.C > j.D" and see you mentioned we don't know about momentum yet. I won't miss j.2C > j.4D at all if it means going back to BBCP links. Without SMP too we could also j.D during a j.D starter

Edited August 26, 2015 by Finuve

[LunaKage]

Yeah, right now her confirms off of 6A and early 6A combos are looking pretty bleak. As well as any combo that takes to the air at any point. It's going to be really hard if they don't touch that up a bit.

[LunaKage]

Boom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=308&v=w2EezZKXxkU

OK, so now it's time to analyze. The first thing that jumps out at you is HOLY SHIT 6D. Cross da urff, hits low, body and projectile invuln during the rush. This is definitely our new neutral killer, the same way 2D was in CP, except you could probably argue that this one is better.

Secondly, I saw later in the match that the Noel whiffed a 6A, it definitely seemed to recover faster, supporting my typo theory above. I didn't see any 5As, so no confirmation on that front.

We didn't see all of her old drives, we haven't seen d.6B, which I'm curious to see, since I believe I remember that she lost her overheads in drive. Curious to see what drive pressure looks like now. d.6C > Reload managed to make the Jin scared enough to hold block and get grabbed, but later he poked out clean. It's possible that he was able to poke out the second time because the d.6C got him at a distance, and thus the last hit didn't connect, so the Noel didn't get the frames she needed to continue pressure. Also note that he was barrier blocking the first instance, now it's obvious she's not gonna be plus enough to get a guaranteed safe grab attempt, even on barrier block, but just the fact that he was scared enough to let her pull it off was noteworthy. We shall see.

6C(2) didn't seem to change as much as I was expecting, it's possible she can still do 6C(2) > 2D, since 2D's arc changed, and 6C(2)'s launch changed, but no confirmation so far. Also, since d.6D is just as hilarious as 6D, it's possible we'll get to use that for side-swap combos. It's too early to tell, but due to d.6C's change, it's entirely possible to could do something like Air hit d.6C > d.6D to side-swap. Dunno, just a thought.

So far they're still clueless on combos. Every combo he managed to land ended in a typical air combo, I'm praying to whatever God that will listen that they find something good, quickly.

[Finuve]

slowed the video down to .25 at 1:04, and it definitely looks like j.D has momentum again

also is that low dash springboard drive starter the new 6D? that looks fucking awesome

[LunaKage]

Well, in both instances of this Noel using j.D, there were other factors involved. The first time, he air-dashed before he used it, and the second time he used it, he was in OD, and OD j.D kept it's momentum, even in CPEX.

[Litherain-XIII]

Holy shit  bruh dat 6D! O_o ..... dayum son that shit is amazin....... we in there with that move man jesus christ! also i might be crazy but it seemed like 5B might have gotten a range buff at beginning of 3rd round 3:22 jin was already backing up and she did a micro dashed 5b and it seemed like it normally wouldnt touch jin in that situation idk but i want a 2nd opinion

Edited August 27, 2015 by Litherain-XIII

[LunaKage]

Oh hey, good eye. You might be right. I really don't think that would have reached in previous games.

[Chaoschao222]

5A doesn't hit crouching Amane, and looked like it was being turboed. Looks like it wasn't a typo after all.

Also her Exceed is really long.

[LunaKage]

Air hit 6C > 6B no longer combos, they air tech after 6C.

Crouching hit d.5C > d.6C no longer combos

Air Hit 236C > 5B no longer combos in the corner

OTG 2B > 6C > 236C > 5A combos in the corner

6C(2) no longer wallbounces

Air hit 6C > 2D > d.6A > d.5B combos

[VermilionBird]

Noel's Exceed Accel. It looks gorgeous.

[Finuve]

still looking like no one has a clue on combos...Ill continue to wait for good news on execution and paths

[LunaKage]

In fairness, it doesn't seem like anything actually WORKS. When I watch these guys test out stuff, they're usually testing the things I would test myself, and just, NOTHING is working. It really does feel like a dud, but this is what Loketests are for, I can't imagine ANYONE seeing this and thinking "yeah, that looks about right", shoot, even a few of the guys I know who dislike Noel are saying that her combos look super weak.