ShinsoBEAM Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 Well... I guess I'll point out something small here... If you predict that during his pressure, he's going to use the nails, sledge his ass (That might be obvious, however, thinking about that more gives you a slighter advantage). As you guys already know, that one Nail Super he has is mostly useful against Tager specifically and if you don't sledge out of there, chances are he's going to do his Command Grab, so be wary. I haven't faced my friend enough to know alot about Bang, but just as much as that, though, this stuff sounds a little obvious. Bleckh, hope it helps though I find the nail super to be a waste I just sledge on startup.
A.X.I.S. Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 A sledge nails into CH j.C. =/ Backdash nails to get hit on the rebound and combo'd with j.A. =/ Nice try though. timing is everything, i beat bangs j.c with A sledge, its strict as hell but doable. backdashing nails is bad too, i rather j.c and try to catch him on air dash. this match does blow.
Justice7541 Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 What do u guys do against a Bang doing 8D as an anti buster/collider? Backdash 360 fails since he recovers faster and does another 6D lol.. I know you can time 360A at the end of the move and catch him but is there another solution which is more reliable? You could just block it and punish, j.D is hella unsafe on block.
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 timing is everything, i beat bangs j.c with A sledge, its strict as hell but doable. backdashing nails is bad too, i rather j.c and try to catch him on air dash. this match does blow. I was going by your post where you said sledge or backdash the nails. Sledging nails leaves you open for counterhit, backdashing nails means you get hit on the rebound. Bang's j.C should be beaten with a backdash 360. =/ That's the only time I actually get damage done in this matchup.
Brother Mojo Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I skimmed this thread but I didn't see anything helpful, so if this has been addressed before, sorry. How does Tager deal with Bang's okizeme? I was playing against a really solid Bang player who could dash in and 623C on reaction to a neutral tech, and due to the slow startup of invincibility on 360A, that meant that I couldn't neutral tech unless I had 50% meter to blow on a 720C or 236236B. Then a down tech or side tech would mean I just ate whatever normal he decided to throw at me. Getting knocked down once felt a lot like getting clap looped. Anybody have any suggestions? Something I'm not seeing?
Isorropia Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 If he was always going for a command grab, do a jump into immediate j.2C CH for a good combo. And while it may -feel- like he's all over you, you certainly have time when knocked down to say, roll backwards and cancel it into a spark volt, which will catch him off-guard if he's running after you to try and follow up. And on down tech, are you canceling it into a normal as soon as possible? It can go into 360A deceptively fast.
Mike Z Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Also don't forget that quick-get-up gives you throw invincibility, as well as the chance to go for a fast CH 2C or something.
A.X.I.S. Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I was going by your post where you said sledge or backdash the nails. Sledging nails leaves you open for counterhit, backdashing nails means you get hit on the rebound. Bang's j.C should be beaten with a backdash 360. =/ That's the only time I actually get damage done in this matchup. this damn 360 controller makes me backdash when its not needed.
Brother Mojo Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 If he was always going for a command grab, do a jump into immediate j.2C CH for a good combo.I was neutral teching and holding up, and I would get thrown before I could jump. Either that or I'm just doing something completely wrong?
Mike Z Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I was neutral teching and holding upIf that's true, you should be able to jump it every single time.
Brother Mojo Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Ok, then, time to figure out why my hands aren't doing what I thought they were doing, again. Guess that's all I really needed to know.
ShinsoBEAM Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 I was neutral teching and holding up, and I would get thrown before I could jump. Either that or I'm just doing something completely wrong? unless he is TKing the air throw but the throws are different so it would be p. obvious.
fragile Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 How you guys handle bang in FRKZ mode? it almost seems impossible unless i somehow pull 2x wheel super or randomly hit him with some fat move. Because overall, bang can rush you down with air crossups over and over in FRKZ and you can't do shit but block / wheel super to the right side. Tips?
A.X.I.S. Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 we talked about this, if he goes into FRKZ mode your kinda screwed... I love how throughout this whole thread, this is the valuable information: Magnetism < FRKZ Spark Bolt > FRKZ IB Bang's 5B for 360/720. MTW on 2B since he may TK Nails. On block 2C you can pretty much grab for free unless they 623B. 360 his j.D when he lands. Is there nothing else we can do? Matchup makes me forgot to say IB like hell in this match up seriously learn to IB his ass, and if he does that gay double jump dash shit then 2C him.
ShinsoBEAM Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 How you guys handle bang in FRKZ mode? it almost seems impossible unless i somehow pull 2x wheel super or randomly hit him with some fat move. Because overall, bang can rush you down with air crossups over and over in FRKZ and you can't do shit but block / wheel super to the right side. Tips? The main problem with FRKZ is life lead LOL RUN AWAY, otherwise I just j.C and jab/collider if he starts getting to predictable. Also grrr online bang knockdown nail rain is gay...offline its free 720 :D.
A.X.I.S. Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 about time i do a little something for bang...to be honest bang is not all that bad but not a lot of people knows what to do against this guy. keep him out. bangs whole goal in this fight is to get in on you and mix you up, good bangs can turn any random hit into 2-4 seal combo's and with tager its all the more easy. tools to use, j.C, A or B sledge, and backdash. j.C is useful when he wants to airdash in, it links up with j.2C nice on CH and allows you to gain magnetism but only for his airdash to me it feels less risky then psychic collider. sledge is for nails trick is you gotta do it on reaction depending on distance depends on the sledge even if your late you can just use A sledge and hope you CH him with it. backdash is only needed for the poison nail, other wise you get hit and them comes the... guessing game. i swear this is when your tager sense's come to play for me it feels like you only hit him off a correct guess, bang's mix up is real strong and tager lacks a decent AA to scare him but here's a nice tip for you. 2B is jump cancelable meaning if you see him jump 2C his ass for 4k+ health any time he lets up, let him respect that backdash punish, but beware of his drives. drive. his drives are jump cancelable on block except for J.D so if you block 2D expect a J.D or if he's crazy TK nails, this is gonna be part of the guessing game here but remember to keep a eye on his nails, without him he will try more annoying ways to get in. IMO backdash punishing or grabbing him in drive seems safe...forgot to say if bang tries to use 2D on you late and you caught yourself using J.B use 2B or grab him, otherwise barrier block. fu-rin-ka-zan. your fucked, if he's right next to you then you can take a chance and buffer 720 during the flash...just wanna say your fucked here...good luck. notes sparkbolt should beat D nails as well. but outside of that only use it for comboing. from my testing j.4C is gonna be the biggest problem even on IB you can't punish the 5A afterwards. bang can double dash and his jump's are higher than yours...the air game is a losing bet. collider tech traps use them only when he's in the corner, has no nails or if he's facing the opposite direction. (you know what i mean don't you?
Heroic_Legacy Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 Whole lotta nothing So, your only advice is really: Spark bolt fullscreen TK D nails Mash 2C after 2B if they jump cancel (Heavens forbid they do anything besides just empty jump. Like, jumping barrier or j.D.) Oh, and jump towards a Bang with j.C, fully knowing that j.A massacres anything Tager can do air to air. And apparently you didn't test well enough, j.4C is backdash 360/720able Buffering 720 during FRKZ doesn't do shit. It just wastes 50 heat and gives Bang a 6k combo on you. Congratulations.
A.X.I.S. Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 angry stuff. huh when did i say spark fullscreen TK nails? bangs do that? if they jump barrier you can air throw him, worst he does is IAD j.4C in which case you eat CH. i said on IAD's if he normal jumps then you auto lose, and if i remember bang needs a few frame's to J.D on IAD so giving us a free CH. i already knew you can backdash his j.4C i tested it on IBing you know like IB punishing which if i point out is pretty damn useful in this match, just seems like j.4C can't be punished with IB if its done perfectly. hmm lets see 6k damage or have bang prance around crossing you up doing the 6k anyways, in this we both agree that FRKZ means your fucked, put the controller down and walk away. and you'd be surprised at buffering 720 on FRKZ i just rather test my luck then get crossed up and never use the meter.
Heroic_Legacy Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 if they jump barrier you can air throw him, worst he does is IAD j.4C in which case you eat CH. Oh god. Seriously, this is annoying. The thing is, Bang's vortex off of 2B is better than Akuma's after knockdown. And that shit wins championships. Bang has answers for everything you do. And not many Bang players are going to stick out an unsafe, non-overhead move against Tager while jumping. They have to be very ballsy and stupid. Bang's mixup options are so that Tager is forced into a very shitty guessing game. Your 2C/Airgrab/Sledge is a decent idea, but you have to have extreme reactions to do this, or you are simply just going with the flow and doing it regardless of it being wrong or right. Sometimes bullheaded stupidity wins me matches, dunno about you. i said on IAD's if he normal jumps then you auto lose, and if i remember bang needs a few frame's to J.D on IAD so giving us a free CH. Yes sure, but Bang isn't going to j.D on IAD. He wants to pulverize your ass into the wall 3 times everytime he can. Bang is always going to be command grabbing if you jump with, j.A/j.B just because it's so damned good, or Barrier to bait that 2C and THEN j.A into a sidewinder loop. j.C after him on IAD opens him up to a counter combo and a tech trap/Oki game where you are at the shit end again. Seriously, don't do this vs a good Bang. They love jumping Tagers. Means they get a Fatal tech trap. (Don't say j.2C fishing either, for that to work the Bang has to airdash twice and has to probably never seen the move before. Or he taunts you knowing after your combo he's fullscreen and mag'd with mini FRKZ.) i already knew you can backdash his j.4C i tested it on IBing you know like IB punishing which if i point out is pretty damn useful in this match, just seems like j.4C can't be punished with IB if its done perfectly. Don't tell people to IB it then. Just stick to backdashing it. If it doesn't work, don't use it or say you haven't found a way around it. Just like I haven't found a way for Tager to just walk straight forward towards Nu without blocking and not take damage (Obviously, BB:Portable fixes this problem. :3). It obviously doesn't work. So I put my foot in my mouth. and you'd be surprised at buffering 720 on FRKZ i just rather test my luck then get crossed up and never use the meter. Bang is +2 on activation. Your hand whiffs, he dashes up and behind and lands. If this HONESTLY WORKS on 360, then quit 360 because you are only robbing yourself of good experience. (Cruxis, if you read this, show him how a Bang is played. You got dat 360 too.)
A.X.I.S. Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 i can actually beat cruxis, him and tsuuna are a pain in their own right, the best thing about this fight is it only takes 2 correct guesses to win. with that said you win, i just wanted to hear your input on it, so everyone wins.
Dacidbro Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 Lol. He's right, FRKZ is never going to eat the 720 man. There's literally no reason for a bang player not to cross up jC literally every time you enter it, unless Tager is already doing a move, in which case you simply punish it with whatever's appropriate or Daifunka if available. However, if you IB the cross jC that every bang player loves in FRKZ, and the bang player grounds himself, you might have yourself a free 720. Otherwise, he's going to dash to the other side and jB/jC you again. Then he might ground himself, free 720. Otherwise, he's going to do it again or run away. If he does it again, he has no choice but to ground himself, but will probably get scared and run away. Meaning nothing's free, everything sucks. Don't worry, it won't be like this in CS.
Heroic_Legacy Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 oh why is that? they nerfed FRKZ. Simply, Bang doesn't need FRKZ to put the hurt on Tager.
Dacidbro Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 A couple reasons. 1. They nerfed FRKZ quite hard. -You can't nails during dash, meaning you can only throw them at weird spaces high in the air and they just generally don't help much, plus, would essentially be sledge meat -You get no invincibility on dash anymore, which isn't huge until you factor in; 2. You have gadget finger Meaning, if you hit any manner of 360 or collider, FRKZ is your bitch, since he's magnetized and close and you have frame advantage. If he dashes up back, free collider. If he dashes straight back, probably any D or 720 beats it. If he tries to cross up, 5A will counterhit to collider. Basically, you have an answer for anything he may do in this situation. But yeah, normal bang will be plenty to worry about. Lol.
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