byronyuq Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Lol. Against Hakumen, I sit there waiting for them to air dash at me. The n00bs come in, eat an air combo, fall to the ground, and repeat until they die. The better ones sit there and wait. Thats when I realize that they have like 5 stars built up because I've been doing nothing the hakumen i fight sits there, so i optic barrel him to make him guard crash faster
excelence Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 I'm not really sure with building libra with Optic Barrel, since the move is really slow... and again if i'm playing Hakumen and not sure with iad or kisshu, i can just 6d the blast to prevent libra damage
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 maybe he means 236A > 5A Pressure strings
byronyuq Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 I'm not really sure with building libra with Optic Barrel, since the move is really slow... and again if i'm playing Hakumen and not sure with iad or kisshu, i can just 6d the blast to prevent libra damage i asked him if optic barrels good against hakumen, he said its pretty good if you can do it at the right time... or something like that.
ryokoalways Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 It's good for baiting hakumen to jump forward off a tech near the corner so you can reset him, but that's about it. Using Optic barrel is just feeding hakumen free meter, and if he is close enough, it's a free combo for him.
qwerty Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Hakumen's need to learn to mix up, imo. too much air dash, which is a free 6A for me. i'm no noel expert, but isn't 6C ideal for beating air dashes? also air dashing isn't a necessary tool for hakumen's mixup, noel's 3C is (if you want to do damage off of your lows that is). i guess the cynicism made it come off as an attack against noel players, but really i acknowledge how hard it is to mix up with her. it's just that having a bad mixup isn't an excuse for not mixing up (which a lot of noel players seem to be thinking).
ShinobiBrown Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Ideal, but not worth eating a counter hit from Haku-men's j.C, thus using 6A instead would be good for the head invulnerability. As for Noel's 3C, competent Noel players won't use that move for mix-up alone unless they've trained you to try and do something after a blocked string into and ending with 2C (6C > 2C) or they have meter to cancel it.
byronyuq Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 whenever the hakumen i play tries to do 6A when i jump, i do an air dash thats too high for him to hit and then do C or D. C usually won't hit but sometimes gives me enough time to hit him before he recovers from 6A
qwerty Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 airdashing towards hakumen is generally a bad idea. even if you're out of 6A range, he can hotaru or airthrow just as easily.
byronyuq Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 i usually do C in the air though, so he doesnt get me either way. either that, or it just clashes, usually
qwerty Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 uh, hotaru is pretty hard to clash with and i'm pretty sure i can counter throw your j.C (as you can to hakumen). plus, if you want to play defense, you should block. but then again what kind of scrub does that?
ryokoalways Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 jC clashes with 6A only if Hakumen does it too early. So it's entirely dependent on hakumen player's timing. Air dash approach is a bad idea because it's either eat 6A or land at a bad positioning for noel, but regular jump in with noel isn't too bad. There are angles that noel can come in at that's fairly safe with jB/jC/landing, with occasional jD shenanigans. Throwing jC is somewhat difficult for hakumen because you are up against jA and jB as well so it's hard to find an opening. Hotaru crushes everything noel can do from the air though. Regardless of how the air approach is, noel's ground approach is much safer. I'd say only go airborne if you see hakumen do it first. At that point all noel needs to do is be weary of hotaru bait.
ioKain Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 i'm no noel expert, but isn't 6C ideal for beating air dashes? also air dashing isn't a necessary tool for hakumen's mixup, noel's 3C is (if you want to do damage off of your lows that is). i guess the cynicism made it come off as an attack against noel players, but really i acknowledge how hard it is to mix up with her. it's just that having a bad mixup isn't an excuse for not mixing up (which a lot of noel players seem to be thinking). In that situation no, 6A is better. Also, 3C as a necessary mixup? Dunno where you got that one from. I never use 3C outside of a hit confirmed combo, or I have meter and I'm playing Litchi or Ragna cause I know they'll try and counter with 5B.
byronyuq Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 i do 5C>2C and then repeat once. after that i jump, then run back in and do 6B and combo after that.
byronyuq Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 In that situation no, 6A is better. Also, 3C as a necessary mixup? Dunno where you got that one from. I never use 3C outside of a hit confirmed combo, or I have meter and I'm playing Litchi or Ragna cause I know they'll try and counter with 5B. i only do 3C outside a combo when im out of range, or if i know hakumen will stand up, but just in case, i always make sure i have bar before i do it
FunkyP Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 i only do 3C outside a combo when im out of range, or if i know hakumen will stand up, but just in case, i always make sure i have bar before i do it Haku will jump and you're left there waiting to be killed, meter doesnt matter in that situation. Even optic barrels are more useful at that range.
excelence Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 ... started to sound like theory fighter , anyway on applying pressure to Haku be very cautious with blockstring that has 5c/2c, Haku can just spam 2d on blocked 5b/2b/whatever and Noel would become a sad panda Edit : notes on Haku 3c <- this moves is fucking fast ... and running 6b? you're so dead imo
byronyuq Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 now fighting hakumen is getting annoying for me... i hate it when he counters my burst every single time and he gets a free combo every single time
byronyuq Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 what should i do when the hakumen can counter my bursts? when he combos me and i try to burst out, he counters it and starts hitting me again and i die really fast after that...
dragontamer Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 ... started to sound like theory fighter , anyway on applying pressure to Haku be very cautious with blockstring that has 5c/2c, Haku can just spam 2d on blocked 5b/2b/whatever and Noel would become a sad panda Lol. 5B cancels into 214A. Sooooo many Hakumens fall for this.
FunkyP Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 what should i do when the hakumen can counter my bursts? when he combos me and i try to burst out, he counters it and starts hitting me again and i die really fast after that... Don't be predictable with Bursts, this applies to all characters as anyone can bait a burst. If you know you've been hit with a big combo burst early or dont at all. Once anyone gets into a combo they'll know that gaps that people are gonna wanna burst through.
aaronyu2 Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 I'm the hakumen that he fights against, and the problem isn't as much that the burst is predictable. If I have the meter I just RC counter on reaction to the burst. There are certain areas in hakumen's combos that he's more vulnerable to bursts, but you can't be too picky when you're about to die. Bursting early does work especially since hakumen is less likely to even have meter to do anything about it, but in many cases early burst is a win situation for hakumen because he can potentially win in the next combo.
Senovit Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Lol. 5B cancels into 214A. Sooooo many Hakumens fall for this. If he mashes 2D, your 214A will whiff entirely. However, 2D does have a damn lengthy recovery time, so maybe you can still hit him out. Not much reason to 214A unless you're expecting a 6D though.
excelence Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 And 214a also has lengthy startup, haven't test this up, but i'm certain i can hit confirm to counter Noel 5c/2c on blockstring when using Hakumen. I'm not sure against haku who mash 2d/6d, but 236a might do the work.
zaeris Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 I'm the hakumen that he fights against, and the problem isn't as much that the burst is predictable. If I have the meter I just RC counter on reaction to the burst. There are certain areas in hakumen's combos that he's more vulnerable to bursts, but you can't be too picky when you're about to die. Bursting early does work especially since hakumen is less likely to even have meter to do anything about it, but in many cases early burst is a win situation for hakumen because he can potentially win in the next combo. RC isn't a bad idea but its more in favour of the otehr person since you will lose 4 stars which stars= damage as far as hakumen is concern. Other area is bursting when he has comitted to a special attack such as 41236 C as an example. I'm not quite sure and why your burst are predictable vs hakumen? In most matches against hakumen you rarely need to barrier block. To be honest he can't keep you in block long enough to do anything meanful.. with a full burst barrier... I don't hakumen will have it easy to predict.
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