A.X.I.S. Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 1. If you're playing online, not much. Otherwise approach them while they get negative penalty, burn a shot if you absolutely have to (even on block), then start spamming D moves (eg, sj.C > jD, land, 2D), eventually you'll make them block something, then you can start pressure. Note this spamming D moves only works if they're purely running away. Otherwise they'll kick the crap out of you for it. 2. None, as far as I know. It's range, startup and recovery seem to be unpunishable for tager. (Unless they whiff it and you have shot ready) 3. Uh....block right? If she's doing iad j.2c crossups, it has a fair amount of lag so you should be able to block right and throw her (if she doesn't cancel into j.c) or I've had some success with backdashing, as long as you don't do it to early. As for her super, I guess you could sledge out of it if you wanted to, I've never had a rachel do that to me so I can't say for certain. (Actually, now I think about it, you could prolly just 421B the whole thing. >.>) 4. Spins and claws....depends on whether she holds it or not, and whether she uses wind. IB > 720 is always fun if you're confident enough with it, otherwise...just block it like you block anyone's lows? 1. she will punish magnet spam, its like a game of cat and mice, except the mice has a gun. 2. so its nothing i can do but block/eat the hits? that bites! 3. rachel never combo you and doing supers? your lucky, thats like 70% the rachels i fight. so i can backdash the j.2c hmm would it be better to strike after wiff or let her finish then pansy 5a her on random? 4. they always wind me...another example of life being unfair. anyways it seems i can try this on rachel's. thanks!
Isorropia Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 I'd have to confirm it but I believe backdashing to make her j.2C whiff is a free 360B, but even if it isn't you've easily got enough time to 360A through any followup they try. That being said, mash 5A also works well if they aren't winding their j.2C, it can catch them out of the iad if you've barrier pushed them slightly.
A.X.I.S. Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 I'd have to confirm it but I believe backdashing to make her j.2C whiff is a free 360B, but even if it isn't you've easily got enough time to 360A through any followup they try. That being said, mash 5A also works well if they aren't winding their j.2C, it can catch them out of the iad if you've barrier pushed them slightly. only if she doesnt wind with it. anyways i found my rachel strategy, she's no longer a threat to me, just a nuisance.
Kurumster Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Backdash vs her j2c doesn't work often enough to warrant using it. In my opinion anyway.
BeefyJr Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 What are the best ways to get in on a Rachel that just abuses fork non-stop? I'm really having trouble with some of the players around here. They're all crazy aggressive and mash out fork constantly. Any advice?
kensk Posted September 15, 2009 Posted September 15, 2009 What are the best ways to get in on a Rachel that just abuses fork non-stop? I'm really having trouble with some of the players around here. They're all crazy aggressive and mash out fork constantly. Any advice? early j.B is a solid option against fork, that said, its not the best option in the universe since 6a will beat early jB clean, so be careful. another option is simply whiff punishing it, if rachel is spamming it, that means they are out of range, usually something simple like a 5C or a spark bolt will punish it for free, depending on distance. if they are spamming it like 3/4 the screen away, use that opportunity to walk forward and gain positioning.
A.X.I.S. Posted September 15, 2009 Posted September 15, 2009 lol, hi jump B. or my favorite jump, IB the fork and J.2C them, counter hit and juicy combo...or just you know, jump forward and barrier...god tager can jump on rachel use it! another option is simply whiff punishing it, if rachel is spamming it, that means they are out of range, usually something simple like a 5C or a spark bolt will punish it for free, depending on distance. if they are spamming it like 3/4 the screen away, use that opportunity to walk forward and gain positioning.
ShinsoBEAM Posted September 15, 2009 Posted September 15, 2009 lol, hi jump B. or my favorite jump, IB the fork and J.2C them, counter hit and juicy combo...or just you know, jump forward and barrier...god tager can jump on rachel use it! another option is simply whiff punishing it, if rachel is spamming it, that means they are out of range, usually something simple like a 5C or a spark bolt will punish it for free, depending on distance. if they are spamming it like 3/4 the screen away, use that opportunity to walk forward and gain positioning. Im trying to figure out how tager can jump on Rachael, won't dust/catpunch/6A, like be completely safe and unstoppable. The thing I find the most annoying is if tager predicts my block string boom instant block and I eat normally a 360A grab, invuns though my next hit, but then again I know I must be messing up somewhere to let this happen.
BeefyJr Posted September 15, 2009 Posted September 15, 2009 Thanks. I was thinking that j.b might work, but the few times I tried in matches didn't go well. I'll try to do it earlier. Didn't think of 5C as a punish, since fork seems to stuff everything Tager has. I think everything just comes down to timing on my end. I'll give that stuff a shot!
A.X.I.S. Posted September 15, 2009 Posted September 15, 2009 Im trying to figure out how tager can jump on Rachael, won't dust/catpunch/6A, like be completely safe and unstoppable. The thing I find the most annoying is if tager predicts my block string boom instant block and I eat normally a 360A grab, invuns though my next hit, but then again I know I must be messing up somewhere to let this happen. i always can jump in on rachel, i scare the shit out of rachel's when i jump in..then again im like a flying truck with tager... oh and if i IB your 6A or any air then you eat a free counter elbow or a throw..and i IB alot. the trick is trying to avoid your canon shots..more or less blocking them and not getting rachel pressured....when she hits me she is sure to do a lot of damage..dont get me started on frog. tager's airs are better than most people think.
brningpyre Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 Yeah, it seems most of the Rachels I've been facing like to spam Fork against Tager. I usually punish whiffs with 5C or 5D, or 360A/720 (if they're magnetized). What parts of Rachel's strings (especially off the fork and her 5B) are backdash-360-safe?
Honnou Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 I usually do Tager's action charge thing through the fork to show off, but seriously j.b that shit if you know it's coming. Otherwise 5c it before she comes into range (NOT AT START OF THE ROUND) or block/IB it and pressure her back.
ShinsoBEAM Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 From my experiance online like no rachels know how to fight tager, they don't understand rush that shit down when they have wind, but yeah fork is not as safe as most rachels seem to thing.
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 It's the risk reward chart for the fork. Fork is very high risk, very high reward. I mean, 4k reward and free pumpkin/frog oki. Probably more interested in the whole air game. I can't seem to find normals that beat her j.2C. I settle for blocking, IBing the umbrella gives me enough time to stick a 360B out.
Raiderwarlord99 Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 As far as I know we don't haven anything that can beat her j.2c. I do recall someone posting on here that you can backdash j.2c but you have to time the backdash really late. But anyway is there anything we can do to punish a spaced fork on block?
ShinsoBEAM Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 As far as I know we don't haven anything that can beat her j.2c. I do recall someone posting on here that you can backdash j.2c but you have to time the backdash really late. But anyway is there anything we can do to punish a spaced fork on block? IB 720 :D....
Raiderwarlord99 Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 LOL I should of known. I just doubt I'd ever get the chance to pull that off in a match since most of the rachels I play tend to never approach me unless they have george and/or the pumpkin backing them up when I have half meter.
ShinsoBEAM Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 LOL I should of known. I just doubt I'd ever get the chance to pull that off in a match since most of the rachels I play tend to never approach me unless they have george and/or the pumpkin backing them up when I have half meter. I have never understood this, do they seriously expect us to get hit by the 236 attacks, walk forward sledge on reaction to sword iris is completely safe, sure they can wind away and then what we have full magnet meter and just have to mind game land it and if we don't at least make sure they block it so we can pull.
Raiderwarlord99 Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 If they have a pumpkin out and you try sledging outside on it's range you risk eating a counter hit combo.
ShinsoBEAM Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 If they have a pumpkin out and you try sledging outside on it's range you risk eating a counter hit combo. *hint most of them don't do this. But I really have no idea why they do this, but yeah I don't dare sledge when I see a pumpkin I think this is why I like the nu-13 match better at least there are times where I can get a sledge and nu-13 can't do anything, unlike rachel where when most of them pull out a pumpkin they are going to rush in, and I can sometimes get away with some p. funny stuff.
Raiderwarlord99 Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 *hint most of them don't do this. But I really have no idea why they do this, but yeah I don't dare sledge when I see a pumpkin I think this is why I like the nu-13 match better at least there are times where I can get a sledge and nu-13 can't do anything, unlike rachel where when most of them pull out a pumpkin they are going to rush in, and I can sometimes get away with some p. funny stuff. Heh well I want to fight the ones that don't. The only time I ever get to sledge in this matchup in when they end their blockstrings with 236a. If I had to choose between Rachel or Nu I'd choose Rachel everytime. Against Nu I feel like I have little to no control of the match even if I have spark bolt or if I'm up close. At least with Rachel the moment I have spark bolt they know they can't summon anything. Update: I tried punishing a spaced fork with 720 and she was outside my reach. Maybe if she was magnetized but I have my doubts I'll have to test that out when I get a chance.
HZMN Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 They can summon George on reaction and block spark bolt completely, so yea.............careful with using Spark Bolt to keep them from summoning Problem in this matchis J.2C and its insane crossup ability + wind + ability to normal cancel on block = the stupidest move to ever exist. AC in theory would be the perfect answer to this move but as we all know, AC won't be a reliable anti air till CS (why arc sys? Did you hate Tager that miuch in development?). Also the fork, while understandable that it should cause stun on CH, but goddamn, for the amount of stuff she can do out of it, its kind of dumb how it takes 20 years to come out of it if hit. Even if you trade hits with her, the CH stun will usually be long enough for her to recover from w/e you hit her with and still come back and combo you. =/ Rachel I still think is the least troublesome of the top 3, but doesn't mean she isn't a headache and a half. But there are some moronic elements in this match
A.X.I.S. Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 notes for this match. take your time and approach, this match requires alot of blocking so learn to IB. you can't beat rachel if your above her in the air, J.C stuffs you and gives her a air combo, if your below her then J.C stuffs her fresh. if she is downed then you can spark bolt her for free. be on your guard rachel wants a CH fork so learn to a get hit by it so she cant combo you or avoid it. her cross ups aren't too threatening because she's a slow jumper. pick your poison her 2B hits low and she can wind J.2C you for trying to block it. if you get caught by frog IB it for free meter, infact if she is dumb enough to use the 6B>6C combo while you block then IB it. by theory you can 720 her before she does the J.C but i never confirmed it, if anyone can confirm it then please do so. to me this match is the easiest to do out of the top 3. just remember she has more reach and great zoning tools. oh and rachels that backdash when you have spark bolt ready deserves it, her backdash is slow enough to punish on reaction.
Heroic_Legacy Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Fun thing to do. IB the last hit of umbrella, A sledge through lobelia. CH. 2B 2C, or 2B 720 Pretty nice to have a mixup like that.
IronTager Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Alright, this might sound quite newbish... But I always seem to suffer when she does that damned Forward+B. I can't think of any way to beat it, I've tried using an A Grab, that didn't work, I tried j.2C, that wasn't fast enough, I tried using 6C, that wasn't fast enough apparently, I can't for the life of me figure out what to do if a Rachel continues to spam that move, it's quite annoying, especially since they do it at just a distance to where you can't grab them. Help me please
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