so moe kona Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 Pretty much anything to stay the fuck away from Ragna is the general consensus.
cookiehours Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I have problems dealing with Ragnas as well. I need to practice more, that's for sure.
Arcade Fire87 Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Guess I should start working on a Ragna guide now. The first tip any competent Nu will agree with, is to stay away from Ragna. Do not try to go toe to toe with Ragna, as he's possibly one of the hardest characters in the cast for Nu once he's up close and personal. Ragna's 5B has crazy range and priority, and leads to some nice damage for him. Along with Inferno Divida!!! Ragna has tons of defensive options up close to crush Nu. If the Ragna player is a skilled one, he can IB 2C and counter the 6C setup Nu has. The consesus is to zone Ragna as much as possible and bait whiffs. The start of a round isn't usually incredibly crucial, but it can set the pace. A lot of Ragna's online like to start off with Hell's Fang, you can counter by doing a 3C right from the start or delay slightly and 3C. Careful about predictably starting off with 3C, Ragna can counter with 5C and into a combo, which is a bad start for Nu. If you're not starting off with a 3C it's wise to just IAD back and keep spacing to your advantage. Since Nu is pretty much left to primarily zoning, it's important that you mixup your drives. Don't just sit across the screen and mash 5D over and over again until he's up in your face. Mixing up Nu's drive is probably the most effective on Ragna. Instead of just repeating the same blockstring of 5DD>4DD>Wheel, do a ton of 5DD>Wheel~C (the wheel that comes from the back of the screen). When Ragna's at mid distance that's when Nu needs to utilize some 5DD>4DD>TK cresent. Of course you still need to do your share of 5DD>4DD>wheel, otherwise your mixup grows stale---quick It's also wise to throw out some j.7DD>cresent combo. However, if Ragna is really rushing in at mid distance do not use Nu's j.DD attacks, it'll whiff and Ragna will hit with a combo and continue pressure You'll face two different kinds of Ragna's. The extremely patient or the rushdown Ragna. Both work in their favor well, depending on the player. A lot of Ragna's may say otherwise, but he has quite a few tools working for him against Nu. Ragna has to work to get in close, but if the Ragna is good you'll find him commonly bringing your health down rapidly. Usually this is the result of the Nu player screwing up. Sometimes I like to use some 4DD's when opponents are across the screen and blocking low, but I've found that this is probably the worst thing to do against Ragna. Most of the time this leads to Ragna dashing in and leaving you with half your health left by the time he's done with you. Avoid starting with 4DD's, it may work against Hakumen and Tager, but the risk is way higher than the reward. Once you hit Ragna in the corner with a drive combo, don't be afraid to get into mid distance and pressure him with mixups for more damage. However, don't try to get too fancy and fight up close just because he's in the corner or low on health, and especially don't get close to him if the fight is close and he's low on health, the Ragna could end up barrier bursting, effectively bouncing you off of him and easily rushing you for pressure. If you hit Ragna from a mid to close distance, be wary of any attempts he may make to roll towards you with an Inferno Divider. If you suspect the player will attempt this, 6C. If the 6C hits, it will wall bounce Ragna for a ton of damage. This will discourage Ragna players from trying to do this too much Of course, you can't be foolish and just rely on 5D. You absolutely need to keep the air covered as well so when you feel he'll IAD use 6D. A lot of smart Ragna's like testing the water and doing a regular jump in the air, and then double jump. They may also double jump and do a Gaunlet Hades. At mid distance, good Ragna's will try to jump low and IAD, which can make it difficult to 6D or 2D. If you're good enough you can try 6A or 2C, which could lead to an air juggle and some heavy damage to Ragna. You could also just backdash and continue your drive mixups to keep Ragna at bay. If you're confident with your abilities, you can throw out 6A's or 2C's for anti air when Ragna jumps in close. These moves usually beat of Ragna's j.B/j.C and take a nice chunk of damage from him. It also means keeping control of the spacing because the anti air combo will knock him back at mid-distance Ragna may try to throw out some Hell Fangs, from here, it becomes a guessing game. Ragna could release the second part of Hell's Fang late and hit you, knocking you into a corner, leaving you in danger or being pressured and hit for massive damage. Ragna may do Hell's Fang, and then Inferno Divider any attempt Nu makes to attack (most likely your 2C or 6A,) and getting some damage in and leaving you to be pressured by more of Ragna's dangerous blockstrings Ragna may attempt to simply grab you, which is also dangerous if the grab is successful, since Ragna could do massive damage to Nu and knock her in the corner, leaving her pressured and helpless once again. However, this also goes for Ragna, you could possibly grab him and hit for over 3000 damage The last option after Hell's Fang, Ragna wil use the entire Hell Fang and then RC into a combo. Be cautious. If you tried to throw out a 2C or grab or backdash, Ragna could tag you with a hit and into a combo, which leaves Nu in a bad situation If Ragna has you cornered with endless blockstrings, do not be afraid to counter assault for breathing room, after all, Ragna's at his absolute best in the corner. Ragna hit confirming a simple 2B can lead to nearly 4000 damage to Nu, providing the Ragna knows at least some moderately above average combos. If Ragna lands a clean 6B overhead, he can knock off almost 5000 health, if he knows some advanced combos. If you decide not to counter assault while Ragna attempts to land a hit in the corner, you're options are to succesfully block, attempt a 2C and pulsar out of there, or try to IAD over Ragna and continue zoning, mix it up and watch out if Ragna tries to Inferno to keep you from doing this. Also, use the option of air grabbing Ragna if he jumps towards you. In fact, air grab on Ragna a lot. His j.5C and j.D are scary, if you make the grab first, you hit for 2000 damage, more if you decide to RC the air grab for over 4000 damage you also need to not roll towards Ragna in an attempt to get out of the corner all the time. Ragna can hit with a 5C and hit with another combo if you try. Ragna could also backdash and with a 5C>combo. Don't ever roll back in the corner either, it leaves no purpose against Ragna. Make sure to neutral tech at times so you don't become predictable in punishing trying to get out of the corner on wakeup As a Nu who personally loves Act Pulsar, I highly recommend to refrain from ever act pulsaring against Ragna if Nu lands at close range to him. The reason? Ragna's 5B beats EVERY option Nu has after recovering from Pulsar, and if 5B lands, Ragna now gets some tasty combo options and leaves you close up to him. However, if you're good, you can try act pulsaring just shy of Ragna's 5B. Some players may whiff the 5B and leave themselves open to a combo of your choosing. You also have to be cautious if Ragna simply jumps after act pulsar and lands a j.C>combo. It may be ok to pulsar close up to Ragna every once in a while, but do it rarely or you'll regret it. Badly. I don't really suggest any attempts at any meaty 6Cs, as the recovery leaves you helpless against Ragna's 5B>combo and pressure. However, if you see Ragna just dashing at you from afar, go ahead and stop his pressure with a 3C>combo. Either you trip Ragna or he blocks it and you leave him to stop for a moment to decide what to do next One again, I suggest to never attempt 4B against a good Ragna, as the blocked whiff will lead to a counter that could cost Nu over 4000 life and more up close pressure What makes Ragna particularly dangerous to Nu is Ragna's 5B, one of the best attacks in the game. period. Some Ragna's love their Inferno Dividers, don't be afraid to dash every once in while in their direction while they're recovering, it can lead to whiffed Inferno Dividers and free damage for you If Ragna has you in a blockstring and just happens to use 2D that you barrier blocked, you can usually hit them with a 5DD>combo Sometimes simply backdashing works during Ragna's string works too, it can lead to tons of 5DD combos on your end Ragna's may decide to use Hades Gaunlet in their mixups, don't be afraid to throw out 2C's. I usually block it and then throw out a 2C. Sometimes you have to be cautious of the second part of Gaunlet and counter with a 2C then. Instant blocking a TK gaunlet and countering with a 6A works well too. If Ragna decided to use Hades Gaunlet in a low high mixup and you expect it, backdash and 2C, it'll counter or juggle him for respectable damage It's important to note that when both players are low on health, do not try to get desparate and finish Ragna off up close while he has a barrier burst, he could use it in hopes of bouncing you off and rushing in. It's also important to note to never leave yourself in a corner, period. Don't ever, ever act pulsar into a corner, even if it means you get off a 5DD>4DD>wheel combo. If Ragna's low on health, it may be advisable to tag him with something and pulsar out of the combo so that if he bursts he doesn't pin you into the corner. Likewise, it's very important for Nu to use their burst wisely. Good Ragna's will bait a burst, and do an RC>block>combo to win the round. Since Ragna often has stored up heat, it's likely the good one's will do this. The best bet is to barrier burst the instant that that combo string lands before he catches on to the barrier burst. By barrier bursting early, I mean when you're down low in health and he's getting ready to finish you off An important note, it's absolutely important to keep an eye on Ragna's meter. If he has 50 heat or more, he can Carnage Scissors inbetween 5DD and 4DD, doing some nice damage and leaving you in the corner to be pressured. Do not grow complacent using 5DD>4DD>wheel. This is why it's so important to especially use 5DD>wheel on Ragna. If you keep the Ragna guessing, he may second guess himself to even try to Carnage Scissors inbetween your drive. If he does and you use wheel instead of 4DD, two things happen. Either wheel hits him and counters, leaving him open for a 6C wall-bounce combo, or the wheel hits and you can RC into a combo for decent damage Be careful, some Ragna's may try to Carnage Scissors and catch you in a backdash. Play it cool and feel him out
Arcade Fire87 Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 God, that was a long ass post. Feel free to add in anything I wrote in the matchup or critique my options. I'm not the Nu's of all Nu's, but I've gotten enough experience to give some general advice for the matchup
ryu-bi Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 In fact, air grab on Ragna a lot. His j.5C and j.D are scary, if you make the grab first, you hit for 2000 damage, more if you decide to RC the air grab for over 4000 damage An important note, it's absolutely important to keep an eye on Ragna's meter. Questions regarding the air grab RC? - first of all, how to RC properly so that I recovers right in front of them? I wasted meter on the RC attempt but she either still hops back or switched sides before, and I know mashing RC doesnt work cuz I get a whiff ground grab for pressing ABC too many times. - what combo gets me that 2000 extra damage? It seems all OTG combo except 3C > wheel gets teched out after 1 move... I suggest also keep an on Ragna's Life meter. I lost quite a few matches by getting him to really low life and thinks the next hit/combo would be good, totally forgetting his ability to regain HP In mid or late match, baiting and blocking a Inferno Divider or Hells Fang usually means you can take at least 3000 HP, 50 Heat, or Burst from Ragna, making the rest of the match much easier to deal with.
zaeris Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Questions regarding the air grab RC? - first of all, how to RC properly so that I recovers right in front of them? I wasted meter on the RC attempt but she either still hops back or switched sides before, and I know mashing RC doesnt work cuz I get a whiff ground grab for pressing ABC too many times. - what combo gets me that 2000 extra damage? It seems all OTG combo except 3C > wheel gets teched out after 1 move... I suggest also keep an on Ragna's Life meter. I lost quite a few matches by getting him to really low life and thinks the next hit/combo would be good, totally forgetting his ability to regain HP In mid or late match, baiting and blocking a Inferno Divider or Hells Fang usually means you can take at least 3000 HP, 50 Heat, or Burst from Ragna, making the rest of the match much easier to deal with. It should be posted in the combo thread.... The idea is the RC as you're coming down meaning a 1-2 frame on the active part of the thrown.. meaning asap when you land so you get a RC on the first active frame of hit 1. The follow up is really quite simple.. you 6c this is because of the large untech time off the Air throw where you can do a dash 6c. Short dash 6c gives the lowest possible follow up for 2DD note: some are character specific due to hit box, size, weight ectera.. im lazy to list them down but for carl, noel use the simplest approach with number 2 or 3 Air throw > RC> 66 6c> micro dash 2DD Follow up one -> Delay 6c> micro dash 6dd >jdd> dj> jdd/j2dd> j214d or delay jc > j2c fall> 2dd> j2c > dj> jdd/j2dd> j214d Follow up two --> micro dash 2DD > j2c > dj> jdd/j2dd> j214D Follow up 3 --> 6dd > 2dd > jdd> dj > jdd > j214D
Arcade Fire87 Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Yeah, don't mash RC, wait till you see Nu landing from the air grab, do it too late and she'll bounce off and RC Also, I know for sure that Bang and Arakune will have Nu RC on the otherside. EX, you grab Bang while you're on the left side and RC, you'll now be on tie right side, do a 6C and follow from there. Ragna doesn't get much health back from his drive, you're messing up bad if you see Ragna gaining tons of health back
kriaser Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I just watched a video of a Nu using 2A > sweep combo after a regluar blocked 236A from Ragna. Is this really safe? I have a tendency to use 2B right away, so maybe that's why I fail on this. I'm in a class right now, otherwise I'd of gone into training mode and posted results.
Arcade Fire87 Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Uhhh, well, if Nu manages to IB they can sometimes beat Ragna with a jab. However, I'm not entirely sure what would have happened had Ragna Inferno Dividered. If you're going to risk attacking after Hell's Fang you may as well use 2C to get more damage. It's difficult to get in the position to smack Ragna with a 2A.
kriaser Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Uhhh, well, if Nu manages to IB they can sometimes beat Ragna with a jab. However, I'm not entirely sure what would have happened had Ragna Inferno Dividered. If you're going to risk attacking after Hell's Fang you may as well use 2C to get more damage. It's difficult to get in the position to smack Ragna with a 2A. Here's the link of the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W32mw7emhbg But yeah, that's exactly what I thought was weird. Risking a 2A on that, but it worked twice early in the video. I assumed the Ragna was just of 'meh' quality, but I wasn't sure.
Arcade Fire87 Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 The Nu was on the crappy side, he messed up on an easy RC combo and never did any damaging combo, and that Ragna was pretty garbage, I was surprised he knew the grab combo that he did from his awful playing. My advice is not to take a lot of tips from random youtube players unless they're known well around the XBL/PSN community or tournament level players No, I don't suggest throwing out jabs like that unless you IB. That Ragna could have used Inferno Diver to negate the jab, punishing Nu and leaving her close up to Ragna. I think that Ragna could possibly have grabbed Nu before she threw out the jab, but don't take my word on that. I noticed the 2a was a counter, that means the Ragna had time to react but 2a was quicker. I highly advise not to counter for crappy damage like that, it's simply not worth it. If you're going to risk attacking after Hell's Fang, just use 2C, grab, dash, or barrier block
kriaser Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 The Nu was on the crappy side, he messed up on an easy RC combo and never did any damaging combo, and that Ragna was pretty garbage, I was surprised he knew the grab combo that he did from his awful playing. My advice is not to take a lot of tips from random youtube players unless they're known well around the XBL/PSN community or tournament level players I agree, my Nu is nothing like that. I'm just bored, reviewing matches inbetween this lecture. Saw this and I was like "wat?" Thus my curiousity sparked. Thanks for clearing this up though.
severin Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I just watched a video of a Nu using 2A > sweep combo after a regluar blocked 236A from Ragna. Is this really safe? I have a tendency to use 2B right away, so maybe that's why I fail on this. I'm in a class right now, otherwise I'd of gone into training mode and posted results. You can punish with a 5a > 3c, 3c, or 2C (depending on distance) if you IB 214a, but it will trade if they do the follow-up. Generally a safe-ish bet for you seeing as that the followup knocks you pretty darn far away, and doesn't do all that much damage. Corner is a different story though
Arcade Fire87 Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 To be honest, overall I think it's pretty much a rock paper scissors game when the blocked hell's fang occurrs. I don't even try to counter if I see the Ragna has 50 heat, a lot of them will to try RC in hopes of countering you or continuing the combo string pressure
cookiehours Posted November 26, 2009 Posted November 26, 2009 Crap, I think my biggest problem is rushdown Ragnas. They seem to freaking eat me alive during matches. I mostly win a few matches with an inch of life left but I really need to work on my defense.
kriaser Posted November 26, 2009 Posted November 26, 2009 Crap, I think my biggest problem is rushdown Ragnas. They seem to freaking eat me alive during matches. I mostly win a few matches with an inch of life left but I really need to work on my defense. Are you trying to counter everything he does? If so, stop it. Learn Ragna's attack patterns and mix ups. If you know how to IB, use that to your advantage and counter then. Otherwise, work with barrier blocking and when to backdash. Ragna is one of the fights where you need to know how to bait and use other attacks that aren't C or D buttons. It's nearly impossible for me to describe how to fight Ragna with all the If/Then situations. If you think your defense is lacking, it is. Nu's range and ability to punish can make you feel too comfortable with her. Maybe spend time with another character for a while? Get comfortable with being up close and knowing how to block mix ups. One tip I will always stress, is that at any time you end a combo with a j214D/2147D, throw out a 236D. Ragna has a very loving DP that he would like to share with you if you're in tech roll foward range. The 236D will deny him that, and also prevent him from attempting to roll forward.
cookiehours Posted November 26, 2009 Posted November 26, 2009 Are you trying to counter everything he does? If so, stop it. Learn Ragna's attack patterns and mix ups. If you know how to IB, use that to your advantage and counter then. Otherwise, work with barrier blocking and when to backdash. Ragna is one of the fights where you need to know how to bait and use other attacks that aren't C or D buttons. It's nearly impossible for me to describe how to fight Ragna with all the If/Then situations. If you think your defense is lacking, it is. Nu's range and ability to punish can make you feel too comfortable with her. Maybe spend time with another character for a while? Get comfortable with being up close and knowing how to block mix ups. One tip I will always stress, is that at any time you end a combo with a j214D/2147D, throw out a 236D. Ragna has a very loving DP that he would like to share with you if you're in tech roll foward range. The 236D will deny him that, and also prevent him from attempting to roll forward. That's my problem. I have this tendency to try and counter everything. But, I have been improving as of late. I use Jin here and then. I need someone to practice with me where Ragna is concerned.
Prototype909 Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 I'm one of those people who thinks the best way to win, is to learn what the other player is trying to do. So here's a snip from the Ragna matchup thread for v-13 You're looking for tricks; there are no tricks against v-13 (besides Carnage Scissor through the gap between 5dd > 4dd). You gotta play solid and be very patient or you're gonna get bodied. I hate this fucking character. Learn the angles on her moves, learn what chains into what, learn how to IB in the air, and learn to bait burst. It's good to actually use v-13 for a little while and get a feel for all her moves; it will help understand what she can and can't do. The best way to approach her is to jump/DJ forward with dash momentum, and IB the 6d/2d spam (use [1] or [3] to IB in air)- you will get pushed back even if IB, but you'll still be closer to her than when you started. It's boring and time consuming, but it's best way to get in and build meter. If you get knocked down, don't tech roll into her 5d. Don't IAD toward v-13 in neutral. You can't "react" to her 5d. More stuff but I gotta get back to work. The best way to approach this matchup imo is to just troll all v-13 players and then laugh when their character gets nerfed and they can't win anymore/flock to new EZ mode top tier char.
Arcade Fire87 Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 ...You could double jump, but...honestly, if you start getting too close, I'm going to act pulsar away by simple doing 2C>Pulsar Spamming Hellsfang and Hades gaunlet is stupid too, yeah, you might tag me with some, but it overall makes you incredibly predictable, which is what you were becoming, Proto. Didn't you notice how well you were doing against me once you stopped spamming Ragna's specials, it was probably the closest you got to beating me out of seven games or so. You made the mistake of doing the same blockstring when I fell for it twice though. Nu's not so helpless up close either, she has mixups, 2B>2C>TK or the TK feints (which seemed to confuse you a little and take you by surprise). You kept mashing out Inferno divider so I wasn't stupid enough to keep long pressure strings on you, but it's punished if done enough. I didn't mind being close to your Ragna as long as I felt I had the pressure under control You're a good Ragna, but you need more patience, you kept rushing in with specials, and while you landed some of them, it overall probably hurt more than it helped. Be patient.
Prototype909 Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 I just don't see what prolonged patience does. Unless I can get in on reaction to 6D or 2D, i'm pretty much hung out to dry. v-13's combos do similar damage to Ragna's, but she has so many more opportunities to land them and so much more safety to do them. Even if I do manage to inch my way in, one mistake and i'm back on the defensive...on the other side of the screen. Ragna is already at a disadvantage if you decide to backdash at the start of the match, there's no way for Ragna to (Safely) reach nu if she does that. Then, (If my some God given miracle) all Nu has to do is tag you once and she can safely escape to the other side of the screen. I just feel like there are openings when there aren't any. So I try to go in, and lose half my health. When I don't take what I perceive as openings, I just end up on the other side of the stage blocking and lose half my health eventually. But I think my main problem with this match is that i'm expected to capitalize on 1-3 openings per round and somehow win. But the openings aren't always ideal (Rarely so infact) for the damage that I need to actually fulfill that requirement. Especially when you throw things like Counter Assault and Burst into the picture. I'd like to have a rematch sometime (Sooner rather than later), maybe once I stop playing with an Xbox360 controller D-Pad i'll be able to IAD after some of those IB'd air swords. That would probably help.
Recommended Posts