[CT] Taokaka vs. Hakumen

[TaoFTW]

Thread is dedicated to strategies against the oh-so-moe Hakumen. Let's keep the field clean from all impurities. >:3

[Sileh]

Am I the only one that has a problem beating Hakumen? Even facing the CPU I get my ass handed to me because of his defensive play. Every time I try to open up on him he (usually blocks) and counters with an obscene amount of damage. I know the whole "be unpredictable" thing and "tao is an offensive player!!" But damn Hakumen for some reason bugs me worse than anyone at the moment. Also, getting the freaking combos off are ridiculous, you really have to do them perfectly or he air techs out of them. I'm talking no gaps in the freaking combo. Practice makes perfect but son of a this is getting annoying to link any of her combos. Air tech has to be the the most annoying thing I've ever encountered while training, and obviously it shows you must spend a ton of time working on them. I've been working on one of her BnB combos from the disc: the one that starts off with a 4BC and goes into a 214C. Mother of God, I thought I had it down, but low and behold I turned air techs on in training and I can't seem to knock them back up in the air after I do the 214BB -> C on the way down. The 7d almost never hits. Also with the 2a -> 5B -> 2B -> 6a (two hits) -> 6a (two hits) the freakin second 6a almost never hits since they air tech out of it !! Damnit!! Anyways thanks for reading. Had to vent there folks Edit: Nobody?? Seems like when I play arcade mode I smoke everyone except when it gets to Hakumen/v-13 I get blown away.

[canned.air]

taokaka, in general, is a very precision style character. if you're a little bit off, you'll whiff your drive loops somewhere and fall out of it (happens to me when i start playing too long). cpu-haku is really annoying, mostly 'cause he's just like any other cpu player, inhumanly precise blocking and attacking. combine that with instant input commands and you have a very frustrated anything person (try putting the game at maximum difficulty, ouch). The only thing i can suggest is doing a B cancel in your forward drives to get behind him, along with a lot of 2a poking to forward drive-type-stuff. Once you do get something started, you pretty much have to finish the combo or you'll fall behind in damage 'cause he hits so friggin' hard. people-haku isn't quite as bad. This is when mixup's become more of an option 'cause people don't have instant reaction time. drive with a B cancel to get behind them is extremely useful against a defensive haku, or even a tager. because humans don't have the ability to instantly change direction of which way to block like cpus, you have a chance of catching them walking towards you for a second, 'cause they think they're still back blocking. capitalize! bnb combos....eooooooo..... the one on the disc is a good place to start, but there's an easier combo that's close enough. you might want to consider doing this instead of the 214bb -> C one: 4b+c -> 236cc -> 3d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb i can guarantee you'll land this one easier than the one on the disc.

[Desov2]

Your not alone. I have the same problem with Hakumen as well. I end going into the 2a > 5b > 5c > 236a xN > d combo for not a whole lot. Spamming 2a into stuff helps a lot too. The CPU really likes to either be defensive and annoying or goes for the two hit kick attack. I think trying to block low more often helps with beating him easier since a lot of his attacks start with low and such. Just my 2 cents.

[Botsu]

If the Hakumen likes to spam out his 3C, USE 6B to tech jump that shit for a free CH into 5B 3C (3 hits) D~6 (J.C - D~6) x 3, J.A J.C, 66, J.C 236 BBBB. Hakumen is huge, take advantage of it by abusing 3C since the 3rd hit won't whiff often. It's easy to outpoke him since he's slow as hell. If he starts abusing counters, throw his ass, Tao's throws do lots of damage and will make him really think twice. EDIT: I accidentally put double jump instead of dash.

[Sileh]

Glad I'm not alone with disliking that white robot. Also it's good to know that the cpu is freakishly good at blocking attacks/countering throws. I don't have xbox live, but it sounds like playing with people like you guys would be fun. I just started blocking low more than high (sort of a noob to fighters, last played fighter was Killer Instinct for Game Boy) and the difference is huge. Still having trouble changing up combos depending on the size of the character model, but I'll scour the forums for character model data ( I know it's around.) Also, learning the counter system is strange and sort of foreign to me. However, it seems like an essential part to play as Tao has several combos with CH starting them. *Off to work on those combos!!* EDIT: With this combo: 4b+c -> 236cc -> 3d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb After I hit the j.23bb and try to move into the j.23bbbb the training dummy falls too fast. Either I'm hitting the follow up to slow or there's a delay thrown somewhere in there...to be continued.

[Botsu]

The 3C combo works on everyone but Jin/Noel/Carl, who you have to use: 5B, 3C (3 hits), D~6, J.C, 236B, 2D~B, 5C, 2D~8, (J.C - 9D~9) x 2, 236BB 236BBBB This actually does more damage and works on everyone, but I really don't recommend using it online since you have to get the cancel on 2D~B otherwise the whole combo is jacked. Getting the timing for it offline isn't a problem for me, but online it is. =/ EDIT: The 4B+C combo works on everyone except Carl.

[Sileh]

Glad you said that as I tried the 4b+c -> 236cc -> 3d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb for the twentieth time on jin. It's coming along but I'm still stuck on the j.236bb ->j.236bbbb part. I plan on only playing either at an arcade or having someone as 2p. Lag is just so frustrating when it's the cause for a loss.... *back to combo training!!!* BTW didn't mean to debunker the thread. ITT: WHITE ROBOT. DISCUSS.

[SkatanMilla]

What are people using as anti j.C? From what I've noticed 6A is out of the question since it will always get stuffed unless you're running under him while doing it. It seems very tricky whiff punishing it with Tao j.C because of Haku's range on his j.C so you get to move too late for j.C to work unless you were already in the air to begin with. j.A has too short range to get in there before his j.C comes out unless you're in the air first, I'm going to test this one out some more. Instablocking it in the air or on the ground doesn't seem to give anything since I'm still forced to block. Maybe I will try experimenting using the command crawl against it, but I have a nagging feeling that the awesomeness of Haku j.C will hit the unhittable crawl.

[Sileh]

Just curious Skatan, but would 236A have a fast enough frame rate to beat the j.c? Purely speculating here. Also blocking down and hitting 2C might help by blocking the j.c then knocking him out of the air with the 2c. Seems to me this might be an attack that you have to block, then counter, or be in the air already (like you said)

[SkatanMilla]

Just curious Skatan, but would 236A have a fast enough frame rate to beat the j.c? Purely speculating here. Also blocking down and hitting 2C might help by blocking the j.c then knocking him out of the air with the 2c. Seems to me this might be an attack that you have to block, then counter, or be in the air already (like you said)

236A doesn't have a good enough hitbox to be used as AA against j.C, even if it would beat it out 50% of the time the payoff for it succeeding would be too much below the payoff for him landing j.C.

If you block it you end up in his mixup game since it has so much blockstun that it doesn't matter if you instablock it, you're not allowed to act afterwards, just block.

[MacArthur Blunts]

IF YOU CAN, tag his IAD startup with a j.C or a j.D, otherwise backdash his j.C and counter poke him according to what he does when he lands. He'll either stop doing IAD j.C or block when you backdash in which case you need to dash and kara-throw him. Maybe 22C will beat j.C Tao can charge 2C, 5C, 6C. Bait counters for GREAT justice. His mixup isn't too hard to read. Don't dick around with your D button in this match. One counterhit and you're fucked.

[Botsu]

IB it on the ground or just block his strings. His mixups aren't very good and the overheads are really easy to see. Don't try to AA J.C. You can anticipate it with your J.C, but don't try to stuff it on reaction, you'll just end up in a world of pain. If he throws the J.C early and you IB it, you should be able to beat him to the punch with 5C (for range) then force him into mixups from there. If he throws the J.C out late, you probably just want to sit and wait your turn. The later he throws it, the more you can start risking it and jumping towards him with J.A/J.C. The Hakumens that throw it late will normally eat a couple J.A, J.C, JC, J.A, J.C, JC, J.A J.C 236BBBB and from that point on be discouraged from throwing it late or from jumping.

[Renz]

Taco-man's 6c and j.c are such a pain to get around.

[Sileh]

IB it on the ground or just block his strings. His mixups aren't very good and the overheads are really easy to see. Don't try to AA J.C. You can anticipate it with your J.C, but don't try to stuff it on reaction, you'll just end up in a world of pain.

If he throws the J.C early and you IB it, you should be able to beat him to the punch with 5C (for range) then force him into mixups from there. If he throws the J.C out late, you probably just want to sit and wait your turn. The later he throws it, the more you can start risking it and jumping towards him with J.A/J.C. The Hakumens that throw it late will normally eat a couple J.A, J.C, JC, J.A, J.C, JC, J.A J.C 236BBBB and from that point on be discouraged from throwing it late or from jumping.

Depending on how high he throws the j.c, say he throws the j.c at the apex of the jump, I don't believe the 5C would beat it very easily (although I would love for someone to test this.) I can't think of any attack off the top of my head that would clearly counter a j.c if you trigger a IB. However, if hakumen does the j.c lower to the ground, you're right, it's a lot easier to mix up the aerial techniques on him.

My beef is that hakumen usually does not throw the j.c out late and the block stun is a bitch, which can lead him to follow up with other attacks really easily. The defensive games fighting hakumen seems like a cautious offensive game, as a misplaced D from Tao can cause a freakin helluva lot of damage from a single Hakumen C.

Eg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T89-hadccs

Took a quick glance at the video since I'm busy now, but it seems even Fio doesn't have an answer for Hakumen's j.C.

[Botsu]

Towards the end, Fio starts to use J.C in anticipation into a drive loop which completely tore him apart. Anticipated j.C''s seem to be the way to deal with it and is normally the way I have been. I hadn't thought of using a drive loop after though =P

[SkatanMilla]

Having to anticipate it isn't a solid way to deal with something since Hakumen can ib into airthrow or just use his j.D to deal with that. What you want is something you can use with high success-rate while not having to "guess" if he's going to do it or not.

[Mersinary Myth]

Im having afew problem with hakumen too. not the cpu. Lately every hakumen I've played lately has backed-up n stayed crouch. they just wait. And anytime I try to get close to get a hard slash or drive catches me. and 1 of of hakumen's combos nearly kill me.

[ein]

Depending on how high he throws the j.c, say he throws the j.c at the apex of the jump, I don't believe the 5C would beat it very easily (although I would love for someone to test this.) I can't think of any attack off the top of my head that would clearly counter a j.c if you trigger a IB. However, if hakumen does the j.c lower to the ground, you're right, it's a lot easier to mix up the aerial techniques on him.

I wish crawling was the answer for all jump atks; if he's IAD j.c at max distance(where he doesn't whiff), you lose more life than he does if you 5c. If he just jump dashes then it's his favor. What gets me is his 6a catching me while i D. I know it's coming, but nothin on reaction. Ideas?

Found something else today on his godly counters: If he catches you, but you end up above his hand(don't know specifically), his counter whiffs. Was doin j.d~6 online and tested it after. Just puttin it out there.

[FLECHAIR FURY]

bnb combos....eooooooo..... the one on the disc is a good place to start, but there's an easier combo that's close enough. you might want to consider doing this instead of the 214bb -> C one:

4b+c -> 236cc -> 3d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb

i can guarantee you'll land this one easier than the one on the disc.

Thank you, I was having the same problem and I find this one alot easier to pull off. I can use this until I get the other one down.

[GreyFlcn]

Heh, here's a simple anti-haku approach. D~B or 4D~B 6A, j.C, [horizontal drive loop into infinity]

[AsterLudkweiz]

Heh, here's a simple anti-haku approach.

D~B or 4D~B

6A, j.C, [horizontal drive loop into infinity]

You really don't want to be driving around too much against a hakumen. His 5C and 6C will beat it out and lead to some awful combos.

I play this match very cautiously. I attack and jump back until I get a good opportunity to counter. I use a lot of 6C in this game to punish whiffed jC. Timing is kind of strict though since if you react to late he can land and hit you with a 5C for counter-hit.

[XDest]

Actually, I've found j.D to be the number one way to beat out his j.C, when timed correctly of course. And j.D on CH can lead into ~5000 damage. That ain't damage to laugh about either.

[Ronove]

Actually, I've found j.D to be the number one way to beat out his j.C, when timed correctly of course.

And j.D on CH can lead into ~5000 damage. That ain't damage to laugh about either.

I assume the 5k combo you speak of is the one that goes ch j.d->airdash j.c->horizontal drive loop->j.5d~a->vertical drive loop->236bb->236bbbb ender or mixup airthrow ender (when they're at the very top of the stage), right? I really gotta hit training mode and learn to capitalize on that.

[Xth_Vagabond]

When I am really ambitious, I cat jump into a grab when I expect hakumen to airdash in with J.c If done fast enough you can catch him before it comes out. Of course this is risky, but it is fun to do Also when I combo out of the air grab I use 236aa instead of charging 236cc because they usually end up behind me with 236cc. 236aa into drive loop