[CT] Manten Maintenance: A Chun Perspective on General Litchi Tactics and Options

[Chun]

This thread is the result of my experience since game release of what different methods of play Litchi has, what habits to avoid that are easily acquired. I hope it will serve purpose as to how people view their style with Litchi, and generally compare to see what they may or may not be doing wrong. This is not a combo thread, but a theory on general approaches to how to initiate combos and survival options. Contents: A. General Entrance Strategies/Methods to Reset Madness A brief review of entrances for the limited Litchi moveset and the use of a held Mantenbou return, including how to approach opponents. B. Bad Habit Central Things often observed by people starting out with Litchi, and other key things to watch out for in mid match due to its predictability and low reward. C. Where She Stands in BlazBlue An overview of characters (Not a matchup discussion, but a general outlook) and what aspects of her moveset to avoid utilizing + Anti-Options. D. Chun's Risk/Reward Tactics/Gimmicks Some tactics I've found handy that may or may not be useful to you in real play. This will be a working thread, constantly edited for clarity, please look forward to it. Also, please take note all of my advice/observations are based on field-testing. I DO NOT use any sort of frame data. Final? Edit: 12/15/09 - I've given up on this somewhat due to the fact that I find difficulty in expressing my ideas through the board in the midst of different terminology. This thread may be updated with general viewpoints rather than tactics in the future that pertain to combo damage and options, and more theoretical approaches and mindsets rather than execution and damage output (See LK's Info for That). ~Chun

[Chun]

A. General Entrance Strategies/Methods to Reset Madness

Overview

In any fighting game, the fundamental objective is simple; attack and defeat your opponent till the life bar reaches zero.

However, one of the common things people tend to focus on is combos. They see the strings of multiple inputs that do fantastic amounts of damage; they then head to practice mode to a non-blocking dummy, until they can hit that combo consecutively, and use it on their AI opponents to defeat them.

This is the wrong way to first approach Litchi.

One of the key aspects about Litchi is that though her combination strings are flashy and wonderfully damaging if done right, her entrance mixup options are very limited. Unlike most characters in BlazBlue who have a quick or normal overhead, Litchi lacks the immediate speed and safeness to use hers; often you will have to use a Manten Cover to even execute one safely, or expect to use a jump-in/IAD B.

In other words, anyone can learn her strings and execute them; the problem is starting the first hit in the face of an EXTREMELY readable high/low game.

You will hear me refer to "Manten Cover" often; it implies the staff is hitting or circulating your opponent in such a way which they cannot reversal or super due to the blockstun constant. Some Examples:

41236 D (ShinShin)

]M[ (Returning Staff Hits)

632146 D (50 Gauge Required, Kokushi Musou)

Let's discuss a few entrance moves, particularly overhead entries.

Overhead Focus: 6A[M]/]M[

6A is commonly known as Litchi's overhead move ability. The result yields:

[M] Version:

- "Free Manten" status

- Knockdown

]M[ Version:

-Normal Hit, Linker

Utilizing this raw, or even at the end of a blockstring; there is risk. To an inexperienced opponent this move might seem safe; however the effects are followed:

Opponent Perfect Block = Punished with Enemy Ground Combo

General Block = Possible 2A Usage, but Lost Initiative

Opponent Expects, IAD OVER Move= Punished with Close Enemy Ground Combo

When is this move safe? During Manten Covers. Particularly in the corner game; this move is one part to the 2 50/50s you can use there. If you have a run-in ShinShin (Assuming 6A]M[), you can also have confidence in approaching a mid-close opponent.

In the end, it is advised you DO NOT USE THIS without proper cover. Despite finishing with 5C[M] or 5B[M] as a stagger, unless you are willing to take the chance.

Example Linkers:

[M] Version

2C/5C => Air Juggle Followup

236A => Utilize 236 C 236 B to push Opponent to Corner/Etc.

]M[ Version (Rec. w/Manten Cover)

5B/5C => Continue Staffless Ground String Tactics

Dash-In Throw => Staff comes back in time to do throw to staff methods (DP, Stance A).

6A is again, best paired with cover, as it is one of her few overhead options.

This is especially true since in the corner on successful hit after ShinShin, ground strings will allow you to continue into DP, and create corner loops.

~Upcoming~

Overhead Focus: 6C

Overhead Focus: 236C

Overhead Focus: j.B

[Chun]

B. Bad Habit Central

Overview

In the myriad of things, players often have habits in the ways they play; that is their style, and it can be respected, as those habits can also be unexpected to opponents. This section is devoted to some aspects of wake up combinations, entries, and falsely good-looking moves; it is a checklist of sorts in general play.

Bad Habit 1: 6Cing Every Free Moment the Opponent is Blocking

Although 6C combined with 2C has miraculous effects on the large-boxed Tager and Rachel, the fundamental problem is this:

6C without Manten Cover is extremely punishable.

Often players (Including Myself) do not realize how often we use this move. The quick first hit, which automatically goes into a second overhead hit; it fools the greatest of players... but only once.

This move single-handedly can lower your win rate by a large measure; take time to guage how often you do use this move. When it is least expected, you may realize your usage of it may be slightly over.

~More Upcoming~

[Chun]

C. Where She Stands in BlazBlue (Reserved for Future)

[Chun]

D. Chun's Risk/Reward Tactics/Gimmicks

Overview

Though we have standard methods of entry and follow up damage methods, it is truly what combos/strategies people formulate that make the player special. This section is devoted to things I like to integrate in my play; as a "trademark".

Chun's Book of Tactics 1: The Mantenbou Has My Back (And Yours)

Class: Match Plausible

Requisites

Position: Far Away From Opponent

Life Bars: Any Amount (Ideal in You <30% Opponent 40-50% situations), You Must be able to take 100-900 damage.

Misc.: Staff is Mid-Far Screen from You, 50% Gauge

The Plan: Before opponent executes anything due to the distance startup Kokushi Musou so that during an opponent's command rush in (Jin Ice-Car), IAD (Aggressive), or Setup (Rachel's Pole Launcher), they will be hit/left in guard; the surprise effect will cost them a good chunk of HP or keep them flexible to be hurt by your approach/crossing up.

The Risk: Opponent uses an instant projectile super, you will eat it; it is possible you will eat a couple of beginning hits.

The Reward: Kokushi Musou connects or creates 50/50 block string situation.

I love Kokushi Musou; to the point where people say I almost abuse it; but every time this super activates I find initiative and make a comeback. The last few hits and spins of the Mantenbou are more than enough to compensate for the first couple of hits I take in most situations. This tactic has freed me from Bang's Combination throw super (AFTER it HIT!), and tricked many eager Ragna IADs; in some cases this activation will also force V-13 into defense, or punish a sword summon.

Also when this super blockstrings Midscreen, you are open to crazy mixes of crossup overheads, low pokes, or an unexpected throw.

The staff can also be placed as you are backdashing; sending the staff forward (j. 6D towards opponent) in front of you then activating as soon as you land creates an unexpected offense.

This tactic has won me many a tourney round; it also punishes backdashing opponents!

Chun's Book of Tactics 2: This isn't going to be an exhaustive draw!

Class: Gimmick

Requisites

Position: Close to Opponent

Life Bars: You have a good amount of initative over your opponent, or you are slightly under.

Misc.: Staff Just a Little Off-screen, 50% Meter, Burst Intact

The Plan: Bursting opponent into the corner in which the Mantenbou is currently in, as a burst is non-air techable.

The Risk: If mis-timed or predicted you will eat the exponential damage and lose your only escape option; only use in definite turn-arounds.

The Reward: Kokushi Musou offers a 50/50 guardmeter-killing position to take the opponent back to the corner.

I love Kokushi Musou. The general premise behind this tactic is simple; force them into Kokushi Musou so that you can do a high-low barrage with the system's barrier burst. This tactic has won me tournament matches as I had simply 20-10% Life, and the opponent 40-50%, in which I made KM connect, then proceeded with a high-low game that took the rounds back for me over and over again.

This tactic is especially effective if you do 63214 B to move the stick towards them and behind. There is no way for your opponent to escape getting hit by the barrage unless they rapid into faultless or fly the wrong direction (In which case you're in some trouble).

Kokushi COULD be replaced with ShinShin if you don't have meter at the time, but it leaves you a smaller timing window to follow up, and doesn't provide as much opportunity to penetrate your opponent's defenses; not to mention if they don't tech you won't have them in the corner at all, and you're staffless.

This tactic alone is what I've used since day one of Litchi play, and is currently why I like "Off-Screen Tactics".

[individuals]

heey this is pretty cool. good reminder for me as i begin to get advanced with litchi @___@. i would love to read section D.

[Jthan]

talk about how to deal with pressure from rush down characters.

[Spud]

heey this is pretty cool. good reminder for me as i begin to get advanced with litchi @___@. i would love to read section D.

Um, what he said.

Anyways, I've never seen a Litchi do a whole lot of 6Cs like that. Then again, I know nothing about nothing.

[WayINside]

D. Chun's Risk/Reward Tactics/Gimmicks

This tactic has won me many a tourney round; it also punishes backdashing opponents!

next time i want to hear that those tactics won you many tourneys, and not just rounds

ANYHOW those are some nice tips, but i feel like, it may be baitable, and people will get the idea and you might waste 50% for nothing (well, some time without rush is something..)

i mean, having shenenigans for tourneys is nice, but if you opponents don't know litchi, he might as well lose from any corner pressure you will apply with her (and there the supers is much better too).

[Cornix]

Thirteen Orphans may actually be better midscreen if you do it right, it's easier for them to escape, but with the right setup Kokushi Musou (I switch between the two names all the time) becomes easier to mix up in midscreen since you can add in jumping over and switching their block sides on them along with the 50/50 block game. All Green is dangerous everywhere except for when you're right in the corner. Daisharin is well... daisharin.... it's really confusing to everyone including the litchi player most of the time.

[individuals]

i love the great wheel, lol. sometimes i use it for cover to go in for the mix up, but since it recovery after the staff is launched is kinda risky you just gotta do it at the right time. if opponent is near KO usually just launch it from across the screen and make it zig zag to prevent them from going over, or 5B 5C 632146D in a block string (i really like this one, since from the 5C it pushes litchi back, but if you put 632146D early enough the staff will not go back with you, resulting in litchi BEHIND the staff spinning, putting even more distance between your opponent, so i dont have as much fear from eating a quick (usually fatal) hit before my staff actually becomes active. im also trying to get the combo j.B, J.C, (JC) j.B, j.C, 632146D greatwheel combo to be used more in my matches. i guess its pretty situational but its pretty easy to do it after an airgrab, and if done in the corner it is easy to get all the staff hits in (control height with j.C) and then descending staff hit, 6C, shinshin / 13orphans. i LAAWV the great wheel. it did indeed take me a while to be able to make its path the most damaging / protective.

[flamingBurrito]

When I find myself stuck in the corner without my stick, I will often barrier burst which sends them right into 13 orphans. Its pretty situational, but I've found general success doing this.

[Chun]

When I find myself stuck in the corner without my stick, I will often barrier burst which sends them right into 13 orphans. Its pretty situational, but I've found general success doing this.

Yep, you described the next tactic I was about to type up. Generally it's a great turn-around move.

[individuals]

When I find myself stuck in the corner without my stick, I will often barrier burst which sends them right into 13 orphans. Its pretty situational, but I've found general success doing this.

this used to be my only way to get KM to land before i learned her combos that ended in Tsubame, 6C, 3C xD

[Cornix]

Lol... 3c makes everything more fun, before I looked on here I was learning without the 3c at the end by myself, hadn't ever thought of it.. and now I'll just forget half the time and hurt myself. Getting supercounter'd by a hakumen because you forgot to 3c at the end of a corner combo is a definite way to help you remember, and also to help you hate yourself. If anything I can't wait for you to talk about riichi and it's usefulness, that's the hardest part I'm having incorporating into playstyle for now. RiichiB is useful... but I get to obsessed with A cuz it's fun and C just confuses me.

[Jthan]

Yep, you described the next tactic I was about to type up. Generally it's a great turn-around move.

its a gimmick, you shouldn't rely on it.

[individuals]

of course you shouldnt RELY on it..but its not a bad idea to do so if you're confident you can get them in your mixup. especially if they're low.

[Guardian]

Daisharin is well... daisharin.... it's really confusing to everyone including the litchi player most of the time.

Only if you don't know how to use it. This super has EXCELLENT mixup potential in the corner, probably more so than 13 orphans.

[Cornix]

Only if you don't know how to use it. This super has EXCELLENT mixup potential in the corner, probably more so than 13 orphans.

I know that. But you can't deny that daisharin was the LAST special you ever got to work well.

And even now sometimes it does stuff (that even helps more than what I tried to do) that I have no idea where it came from.

[individuals]

I know that. But you can't deny that daisharin was the LAST special you ever got to work well.

And even now sometimes it does stuff (that even helps more than what I tried to do) that I have no idea where it came from.

yea it was definately the last one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvPHAz6ww-Q - taken from the video discussion thread

definately. . . the last one. these combos are teh awesome.

[Phrekwenci]

All Green is the last one I got to work. I've only done it once after doing the motion several dozen times (confirming the inputs in training mode).

[individuals]

practice makes perfect as they say. its becomes an awesome finisher tool once you get that flame ON COMMAND!

easiest shortcut for me is 64128. i dont get how people do 64123698 and say its easier x___x"?

and i lol when i get finishes with 2 all greens in a row. cuz honestly i cant combo off allgreen for my life even if its pretty much the same as other CH combos.

[Cornix]

practice makes perfect as they say. its becomes an awesome finisher tool once you get that flame ON COMMAND!

easiest shortcut for me is 64128. i dont get how people do 64123698 and say its easier x___x"?

and i lol when i get finishes with 2 all greens in a row. cuz honestly i cant combo off allgreen for my life even if its pretty much the same as other CH combos.

I'm still a big fan of 'Tsubame -> All Green as they come down with tsubame -> Thirteen Orphans off the wallbounce'

[VVSolVV]

I'm still a big fan of 'Tsubame -> All Green as they come down with tsubame -> Thirteen Orphans off the wallbounce'

That combo sounds sick. It makes me want to skip work to go home and beat up some ppl online with it. How's the damage and is it worth the 100% gauge?

Also since I'm already posting, what's the best thing to do when thirteen orphans hits? i usually run up and do a standard air combo, and as the DD is about to end, try to time a chun at the end so I can knock them back and possibly combo. I saw a video where the litchi did 6C over and over, which is probably better than my air combo. maybe instead of timing the chun, time the 6C so it scores a knockdown instead of the bounce the chun creates?

[Fafnir]

I find that if I have trouble putting in All Green, you can whiff a 5A, and buffer it with that. It's definetly not WTFFAST, and obviously will be more predictable, but it's a starting point.