Shining Aquas Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Because this was the only matchup thread I hadn't seen yet. Fighting low level Ragna's provides no threat since you tend to do free combos that mutilate his health (due to it being so low), but at high level play this guy's pressure is a tad insane. It should also be duly noted that Ragna's DP does not only out-prioritize your DP, it is also Rapid-able, meaning his reversal is tons better than yours. Best way to fight Ragna?
Chun Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Defend a lot during wake-up games and try to bait the uppercut. If your opponent knows what he's doing he'll be going in for quite a lot of the low pokes when he wakes up or if he sees you rush in close he'll expect a Tsubame. Generally his tactics such as the rush-in punch and 5B are stuffed by your pokes at a distance, 6B and the occasional 5C. Don't rely on your DP too much due to his ability to rapid and reverse better than you on wake-up. Otherwise play defensively; your air options are quite limited due to that full invincibility upper of his on ground for a free combo, so jump-ins are not recommended (When falling don't forget to faultless). Play a solid ground game with Manten covers after blocked 3Cs (Since that gives you free staff status) and take the couple of hits if required to 6C him into OTG after the ShinShin hit. Ultimately you have a higher amount of vitality. Otherwise his pickup game with the 50-50 while you're on the ground is a complete guess. Keep your distance, and wait for the moment he rushes in or does that overhead arc of his. Mind the 5B kick he has as well, as it has more distance than yours and will punish your own 5B. ~Chun
Lord Knight Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Anti-Ragna measures: Ragna's 5B is ayusss. Fish for ch 5A. If he does 5B, your 5A should win, go straight into 5B > bnb. If he reads 5A whiff, he can 5C, but that's a pretty big risk considering that Litchi's 5A recovery is small. Ragna can't IAD on Litchi at all. If he does IAD JC too close, you can 5A it out of start up, on CH go into JAB dj JBC (daisharin if you have the meter). Outside of that, Litchi's crouch is so low that you can just crouch under IAD JC. If properly positioned, you can 2C > Tsubame > whatever combo you want. Ragna's 6A is troublesome. If you do decide to jump at him, make sure you fall with barrier. If you want to deliberately bait it, you can kara fastfall, he'll position himself to anti-air you. . . and you'll be on the ground. Don't do it too much to keep it fresh. As far as okizeme goes, Ragna's DP goes through Shishin, so doing Shishin right away isn't a good idea. Optimally, you want to end your corner combo with J7C, like 6C > Tsubame > J7C > 4Kote > JC whiff. This will put you out of range of DP and will give you time to react to anything he can do. As far as ending combo with 3C ender, still position yourself slightly away, and delay your Shishin. At the very least, if he does do wakeup DP, he'll get hit by the tail end. Ragna's pressure is as long as you can IB. Hell's fang is punishable on IB, as is a bunch of other moves. They'll try to go into jump cancellable moves (6A, 3C), and jump and see what you do. If they have meter, Hell's fang > RC > Mixup is legit. 6B is cancellable on block, as is 2B, but if they use 2D for any reason, IB and punish. If he does 5D, IB the first hit and backdash/command backdash - you can IB both hits but if he cancels before the second hit and you're sitting their waiting, he'll keep initiative. IB Dead Spike or DP it - they'll normally use it after a move they can't jump cancel (5B, 2C, 5C). If you fail IB for some reason, try not to challenge it - it's actually plus on block. Litchi on offense - try your best not to use 5C[m] in pressure, it's a free punish for Ragna. If you do for some reason, try 5C[m](1) 5D, or something to get you out of it. Even if you go into 3C[m], if he IB's both hits, he can just dash 5B/jump JC. You can try to do a guessing game where you do 5C > itsuu GP, but if you want to minimize risks it's better to not even try in the first place. 5C is fine if you are going to cancel into Daisharin. tl;dr version 5A is gdlk. Crouch Ragna IAD. Try not to jump at him, kara fast fall if you want to. Watch out for DP in corner. Don't use 5C[m] in pressure.
Chun Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 It's a risky game using 5A for CH impulse on 5B; even if the recovery is good it can be stuffed with a DP or other sort upon the first hit because of the slight movement range. Even if ShinShin can be DPed out of it is an easy way to bait the DP by run-in and block. Also, 5C[M] stuffs out IADs forward and generally used in pressure the spacing is more than enough to insert a counter hit on approach; even with IB you can insert a 2A to stagger most cases. When used sparingly it's a great asset to the anti-approach rushdown of Ragna. ~Chun
Lord Knight Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 If you aren't using 5A in this match all you're doing is crippling yourself. It's not risky, it's standard. If someone has the balls to use DP on reaction/viewing of your 5A then they should quit BB and play SF4 where their talents can be used. The point of delay shishin is to not lose your momentum, if you just run and block you're giving up initiative, which is something you want to keep. 5C[m] is a terrible move in this matchup.
Guardian Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 5C[m] is a terrible move in this matchup. Why? What's wrong w/ cancelling into itsuu and using the guard point to your advantage?
Lord Knight Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Once you use 5C[m] vs Ragna, if the Ragna player is even half-decent, you get put in a disadvantageous situation. 5C[m] is terribly easy to IB, Ragna can do dash 5B/3C. You can Itsuu. If he did 3C, you're taking big damage. You don't have time to 3C him if he IB's both hits. The situation you're getting in by using this move in pressure against him is at best you blocking/trading hits, at worst you getting hit.
Brent-quest Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 As a general rule you should probably not 5B 5C[m] on block in general. You limit your options greatly. Try to hit confirm a blocked 5B to a 6B([m]) pressure reset or jump cancel. Also: Itsuu does NOT autogaurd low, any player who knows this can take advantage of cancelling to itsuu in blockstrings. I don't think the matchup is bad at all. As long as you can guard well you should be fine. His health isn't phenomenal so a few knockdowns can lead to death quickly on him. I did very well against Veteru when I got to play him, can't remember exactly what I did but it worked well.
Kdash55 Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 My friend has a really good Ragna, it's constant pressure and mixup all day. Ragna ALWAYS beats my Litchi vs air to air. For some reason I can't do anything about his 6D jc falling jC or jB when he's all up in my face. When I try to tsubame he just crosses me up and im screwed. If I'm above him his jD somehow beats out my jB, or he can DP me, if we're at the same level my jc trades or clashes with his jC. Ragnas 5b and his jC has insane range tbh, pretty deceptive and it always catches me off guard, not to mention his easymode DP with 6a when im in the air, this matchup gives me a headache
EyeLovePumpkins Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Hell's fang is really fast, so what's the best thing to do if I normal guard it? I almost always get counter grabbed afterwards before I can do anything.
EyeLovePumpkins Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Okay, but let's say that I miss the opportunity to IB and it was normal guarded instead.
Nakkiel Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Then block or 2A if you know he won't do Tsuika or uppercut.
Lord Knight Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 Just block. In general, you should be able to IB hells fang.
EyeLovePumpkins Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 For ukemi situations(6C tsubame 6C 3C) after 3C followups against Ragna, what's the best thing to do if I know Ragna is going to DP right after 3C?
-Ladon- Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 block, wait until shishin is active(hitting them or being blocked) then go from there
-Ladon- Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 shishin is in active frames (ie if you see the ragna getting hit or blocking)
EyeLovePumpkins Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Okay....so are you telling me not to shishin until Ragna DP is blocked?
Kenshuma Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 Otherwise you'll eat a DP into unnecessary damage. But, don't use 13 Orphans on him....
EyeLovePumpkins Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 But won't Ragna's DP hit and counter me right when I activate the four winds, before I get the chance to block?
-Ladon- Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 if you're canceling shishin as you 3C, no, you will be safe on neutral tech. Otherwise you'll eat a DP into unnecessary damage. But, don't use 13 Orphans on him.... I was pretty sure if they ID 13O still catches them after their invlun frames? or are you talking about IB-ID?
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