Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Zedar90]

8 hours ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

Didn't Nine also tell Nu and Ragna to specifically "Gather all of the Nox Nyctoreses" and then fight Izanami, what do the Nox Nyctores have to do with Izanami?

It said that it a summary, but I have yet to hear it for myself. So it could be a mistake. It wasn't in the Ragna story, but I have yet to see Kagura's.

very slow edit: Oh, I realized that I never watched closely at Nu's arcade. Yeah Nu must obtain all the nox if she wants to obtain the true Murakumo unit, Sword of Izanami.
and if she doesn't have it, the merge will fail again.

[kylehyde]

7 hours ago, Zedar90 said:

It said that it a summary, but I have yet to hear it for myself. So it could be a mistake. It wasn't in the Ragna story, but I have yet to see Kagura's.

I was curious about that too because she only mentions it in certain characters arcade endings but not in others. 

[Luminos564]

17 hours ago, Tokkan said:

She wants Ragna to be the one to beat Izanami, she wants Azrael to awaken the Black Beast within Ragna and she wants Nu to become the "true Murakumo Unit" so she can have a "true fusion" with Ragna...

So basically, Nine wants to make Alpha.

TFW you realise that making Alpha requires merging all 3 Murakumo with him  .

On a more serious note this "true merge" business has me curious. Nu-13 has always wanted to merge with him regardless of what the end result meant (Black Beast commencing Doomsday and repeating the 100 year cycle). Now all of a sudden we seem to have an alternative to all that but once again, Mori only drops vague breadcrumbs that we can draw nothing beyond mere speculation.

And though I was mostly joking in my first sentence, I can't help but feel Lamb-chops and Noel are needed for this as well. Granted, Noel does have (or perhaps, "had") a Life Link with Hazama/Terumi (I forgot which it was exactly) but there seems to be some leeway in regards to that stuff. Yes, Nu-13 does want to merge with him, but Lamb-chops is also drawn to him for her own reasons and he already bonded with Noel between CT-CP. The more I think about it, the more I believe these 2 are also part of this process but I suppose we ought to wait and see. This is sounding more "story climax" kind of territory than anything though...

[Skull567890]

It's a safe bet to say that Nine harbors some sort of malice towards every hero so far, correct? In a translation of Terumi's arcade he mentions how he basically kicked Trinity down into the boundary, and Nine replies to him with something along the lines of "Yeah, I knew what type of people you and Trinity were." Since the summary for Platinum's arcade just mentioned her being "unstable", was there anything significant  (aside from sending Platinum on an Izanami-witch-hunt) Nine said to her? A mention of perhaps the lack of Trinity since she's apparently with Jin now? 

[Leiopelma]

On 28/12/2015 at 4:40 AM, Volt said:

Pretty much. She wants Ragna to get the killing blow. If the rest goes up as cannon fodder or manage to at least weaken Izanami.. She's not evil, she's a pokémon trainer! Where's Tagerchu?

That's my guess as well. Most of these characters don't stand a chance against Izanami, but if they all fight her then they might be able to wear her down. Nine might simply be planning a war of attrition.

 

20 hours ago, Skull567890 said:

It's a safe bet to say that Nine harbors some sort of malice towards every hero so far, correct? In a translation of Terumi's arcade he mentions how he basically kicked Trinity down into the boundary, and Nine replies to him with something along the lines of "Yeah, I knew what type of people you and Trinity were."

Trinity is responsible for everything that went wrong. Terumi mocked her by calling her a traitor in CSE because that is what she was. She was acting in good faith, but in the end of the day she did in effect betray the other heroes by unleashing Terumi, thus enabling him to throw Nine and Hakumen into the Boundary. It makes sense for Nine to resent her.

[sg1989]

But why the nox are indispensable for a real fusion?
It would not be enough simply Ragna + Nu?

where he wants to go Mori? XD

[Skull567890]

2 hours ago, Leiopelma said:

That's my guess as well. Most of these characters don't stand a chance against Izanami, but if they all fight her then they might be able to wear her down. Nine might simply be planning a war of attrition.

 

Trinity is responsible for everything that went wrong. Terumi mocked her by calling her a traitor in CSE because that is what she was. She was acting in good faith, but in the end of the day she did in effect betray the other heroes by unleashing Terumi, thus enabling him to throw Nine and Hakumen into the Boundary. It makes sense for Nine to resent her.

True, I can't deny that Trinity did start the snowball effect. It's actually interesting because it doesn't seem like the other heroes (aside from Terumi) share her sentiments, but that's probably because they didn't experience it as bad as Nine had it so far. Act 2 has it looking like her split from Platinum will be either long-term or permanent, I only recall her spirit appearing alongside Platinum in Hakumen's arcade as a mere illusion.  She has art now, but as said before so did Kokonoe in CS. It's only somewhat significant to me because they usually just changed the shape of Platinum's eyes when she spoke before. The last time a character split for story-related purposes, we ended up with Terumi. The only downside to her separation is that Platinum herself basically lost her source of plot relevance. 

[Volt]

2 hours ago, Skull567890 said:

True, I can't deny that Trinity did start the snowball effect. It's actually interesting because it doesn't seem like the other heroes (aside from Terumi) share her sentiments, but that's probably because they didn't experience it as bad as Nine had it so far. Act 2 has it looking like her split from Platinum will be either long-term or permanent, I only recall her spirit appearing alongside Platinum in Hakumen's arcade as a mere illusion.  She has art now, but as said before so did Kokonoe in CS. It's only somewhat significant to me because they usually just changed the shape of Platinum's eyes when she spoke before. The last time a character split for story-related purposes, we ended up with Terumi. The only downside to her separation is that Platinum herself basically lost her source of plot relevance. 

Actually, she's still packing that Nox that can make things out of thin air. Things like a body to eject Izanami from Saya.

On the other hand, the plot is getting more and more serious. There is a pretty high chance of her getting the Tao treatment. She can even literally vanish since her own existence is unstable in the first place.

I'd still place my bets on Muchourin pulling them back to the plot though. No one stays dead in this series.  

[Skull567890]

29 minutes ago, Volt said:

Actually, she's still packing that Nox that can make things out of thin air. Things like a body to eject Izanami from Saya.

On the other hand, the plot is getting more and more serious. There is a pretty high chance of her getting the Tao treatment. She can even literally vanish since her own existence is unstable in the first place.

I'd still place my bets on Muchourin pulling them back to the plot though. No one stays dead in this series 

I honestly think Trinity is on a mission to secure Muchourin back from Platinum, if that makes sense. Unless Platinum randomly shows that's she's not useless  with it (since Trinity did everything major), Muchorin probably won't be utilized to its full potential. The story would probably hand-wave why both have the same Nox, and I think it'd make sense to finish out Ragna's chapter with all 6 heroes joining the fray. Hopefully Act 2 explains this and why Trinity clung to Jin for dear life.

[Skull567890]

The way Nine has this whole scenario is fascinating though. Jin, Hakumen, and Izayoi all want his head on a stick, but first she wants Azrael to awaken the beast with him before Doomsday. At the same time, she's sending everyone else after Izanami and wants Ragna to be the one to finish her as her "wish." Due to Nine, Amane is now also forced to parade around and do whatever God knows.

 

[Volt]

6 hours ago, Skull567890 said:

The way Nine has this whole scenario is fascinating though. Jin, Hakumen, and Izayoi all want his head on a stick, but first she wants Azrael to awaken the beast with him before Doomsday. At the same time, she's sending everyone else after Izanami and wants Ragna to be the one to finish her as her "wish." Due to Nine, Amane is now also forced to parade around and do whatever God knows.

 

Come to think of it, The main reason Jin, Hakumen and Izayoi pack torches and pitchforks whenever they get near Ragna is because of the Beast.

Sure, Jin has a bad case of whatever he has with Ragna, but the Power of Order pretty much ensures he'll go rabid near Ragna anyway.

Hakumen actually has more beef with Nu since she killed Tsubaki, but having to deal with another beast and having Ragna exist to make sure someone will pop a Murakumo to try and awaken his beast aren't cool in the book of justice. Aka his diary.

Izayoi is pretty much, like "He beat the s*** out of Jin and made everything bad. Imma stab him." So again, beast shenanigans.

Funny part is that Ragna didn't do anything personally to get any of those three people obsessed with killing him.

Perhaps a Beastless Ragna will have less people trying to kill him so we can get a somewhat happier ending to this game?

[Skull567890]

Naoto's existence threatening Ragna's also indirectly puts Ragna in more danger of kicking the bucket when this all ends. And since Naoto is going to be stubborn until he finds Raquel, there's that for him to worry about too.

[Volt]

6 hours ago, Skull567890 said:

Naoto's existence threatening Ragna's also indirectly puts Ragna in more danger of kicking the bucket when this all ends. And since Naoto is going to be stubborn until he finds Raquel, there's that for him to worry about too.

I dunno, Observers are still a thing. But well, Mori is pretty much assuring us Ragna will die before the end of the series... But no one stays dead in this series...

I need a drink.

[Luminos564]

29 minutes ago, Volt said:

I dunno, Observers are still a thing. But well, Mori is pretty much assuring us Ragna will die before the end of the series... But no one stays dead in this series...

I need a drink.

If there's one thing I learned when it comes to fighting game characters is that they're, for lack of a better term, "immortal". I mean that in the sense that, while they're not above death, for they can still die in-story, they can be brought back using the flimsiest of excuses. If Ragna kicks the bucket, you can bet that eventually someone will clone him, make him a robot copy body for his soul to inhabit or just plain ascend him to godhood and have him effectively rise back from the dead. Keep in mind, this IS a series where Life Links, Chronophantasma, artificial bodies merging with spectral demons and flippin' Amaterasu exist (Amaterasu gave the first unit that came into contact with it immortality after all). It's like Mori went up to Akira Toriyama and said "Ok you know about your Dragonballs yeah? Well Imma one up ya man".  If Ragna dies at the climax/end of Central Fiction it will not be a question of "Will he or will he not stay dead" but rather "How long until he comes back, rearin' for another go"?

[churchblue]

I'm still wondering who has a potential of using real magic (excluding Celica and Nine). If the Mage's Guild and the school were to reopen after this war, who will become a teacher and the headmaster?

[Luminos564]

45 minutes ago, churchblue said:

I'm still wondering who has a potential of using real magic (excluding Celica and Nine). If the Mage's Guild and the school were to reopen after this war, who will become a teacher and the headmaster?

Kokonoe does, but she refuses to use it in favor of science. There's also Seven I guess, provided he lived through the ages. Rachel knows Sorcery but that's a whole other ball game (think of it as an advanced form of the magic Nine uses). See part of the reason Nine developed Ars Magus in the first place was because actual magic was simply too difficult to teach to the average Joe Everyman of this universe within the 1 year that Bloodedge bought them and they needed a lot of people to combat the Black Beast at the time.

But let's assume we decide to reopen a Blazblue Hogwarts; what would be the point of it? There's a good chance that Central Fiction will resolve most of the immediate issues and even if there was some bigger threat beyond the stage of Central Fiction's plot, do you honestly think they/it would sit idly by and allow humans to all develop and refine the use of actual magic for themselves?

[VermilionBird]

1 hour ago, Luminos564 said:

Rachel knows Sorcery but that's a whole other ball game (think of it as an advanced form of the magic Nine uses).

Mmm, not necessarily.

To quote from this:

"Magic (Majutsu) uses seithr and is used mainly in XBlaze. Ars Magus was created by combing magic with science, which is why it costs seithr to use. Characters that use this include Kuon, Drei, Acht, etc. It was created to combat creatures outside of Logic, such as the Black Beast.

Sorcery (Mahou) doesn’t use seithr and actually uses mana (basically the energy of nature). This is what Celica, Nine, and Rachel use. It’s only mentioned by name in an offshoot comment by Rachel during a Teach Me, Miss Litchi segment, where she mentions that it’s harder to master than magic, but hints at it being more powerful. Unlike magic, it doesn’t seem to need any incantation, but does take time to charge up. Celica’s magic is more of an instantaneous thing she can just use, but Nine needed at least a few milliseconds to charge up a fire spell during the peak of her strength during the Dark War.

Magic (majutsu), it’s actually a sub category.
The big category is known as 術(jutsu,arts) which is the power to create phenomena using seithr. To use it, one uses incarnation and/or tools, so some knowledge is needed to use it.

Two sub categories of Arts are Magic (Majutsu) and Exorcism (Onmyou Jutsu). Terumi Saya can also use an art to make her able to fight with super human strength and speed for 3 minutes, but it’s not specified what kind of art it is. Also the mind eater that Izanami uses on Tsubaki is said to be an art as well."

[Fenris]

"Gain Art" has been mentioned a few times in this thread, but that was a ways back; I wonder if it has anything to do with the aforementioned "Arts."

One thing that really bugs me about the Blazblue universe is the inconsistency in its many terms. Certain words seem to be synonymous with each other but aren't, while many terms are often used interchangeably but are then seemingly contradicted in other official sources. I don't know if it's a poor translation thing or what, but it's enough to make your head spin, and my head don't spin. I've literally watched hundreds of anime--the most convoluted plots, most of which were worsened by mistranslations/laziness--and have been able to grasp and understand them, but Blazblue takes the cake sometimes. Most of the confusion lies in the lack of steadfast. consistency in the definition of  some of the series' most crucial terms (i.e., stuff like sorcery, magic). Again, maybe it's a poor translation thing.

[Zedar90]

Gain art probably doesn't have anything to do with the category of arts. In BlazBlue, it's seems to be some kind of amplification due to the kanjis, and in Xblaze it's related to Drives(doesn't stop taking in seithr).

I don't think that there something wrong with the consistency, it does have a habit to have more than one name for the same things, but I believe it's mostly localization errors. But if I'm wrong, could someone show any consistency errors?

I mean, why are there two Mind Eaters? Until I realize that one was sorcery and the other an art.

[Volt]

23 hours ago, Fenris said:

"Gain Art" has been mentioned a few times in this thread, but that was a ways back; I wonder if it has anything to do with the aforementioned "Arts."

One thing that really bugs me about the Blazblue universe is the inconsistency in its many terms. Certain words seem to be synonymous with each other but aren't, while many terms are often used interchangeably but are then seemingly contradicted in other official sources. I don't know if it's a poor translation thing or what, but it's enough to make your head spin, and my head don't spin. I've literally watched hundreds of anime--the most convoluted plots, most of which were worsened by mistranslations/laziness--and have been able to grasp and understand them, but Blazblue takes the cake sometimes. Most of the confusion lies in the lack of steadfast. consistency in the definition of  some of the series' most crucial terms (i.e., stuff like sorcery, magic). Again, maybe it's a poor translation thing.

And that's the kind of thing that pops up After we got a translated library mode in CPEX. Y'know, that one made to solve this kinds of questions and provide consistency about the technical terms of the series. 10/10.

 

I thought Mind Eater is a weaker variant of Ruby: Mind Eater, with Ruby not only controlling the victim but overwriting their will. Are there other differences?

[Fenris]

7 hours ago, Volt said:

And that's the kind of thing that pops up After we got a translated library mode in CPEX. Y'know, that one made to solve this kinds of questions and provide consistency about the technical terms of the series. 10/10.

They should not have had to do all that for the supposedly core concepts in the series, and I should not have to skip around several mediums just to get the full scoop--only to encounter seemingly contradictory and/or misleading definitions of the same weapon/armagus/whatever name--nor should I have to wait/beg for them to finally include a library mode amid the quagmire after gods know how long.. Zedar hit the nail on the head in regards to what I mentioned, though; it's mostly a poor or subpar localization effort (depending on the game). Us Westerners have to go the extra mile--poor/lazy translations and all--in order to get what the Japanese have handed to them. So yeah, it's mostly a "lost in translation" sorta deal. Mostly.

[Stryker115]

On 12/31/2015 at 3:35 AM, VermilionBird said:

Terumi Saya can also use an art to make her able to fight with super human strength and speed for 3 minutes, but it’s not specified what kind of art it is.

Isn't she using Soul Eater though?

[VermilionBird]

1 hour ago, Stryker115 said:

Isn't she using Soul Eater though?

Two different things.

When Saya Terumi uses Soul Eater, it's basically refreshing her and giving her more strength to compensate for the fact that she's got a naturally low life-force value, and isn't very strong without her Drive (come on, she's a 13 year old girl).
The technique she used against Valkenhayn more or less put her on his level, but it wasn't specified other than it makes her only powerful for 3 minutes at best. True, she does manage to get a good grip on him so she can use her Drive, but no way would she have had that level of power without that technique.

Funnily enough, Relius uses something similar against Jin in CP, and says the Imperator taught him it...

[Volt]

10 hours ago, VermilionBird said:

Two different things.

When Saya Terumi uses Soul Eater, it's basically refreshing her and giving her more strength to compensate for the fact that she's got a naturally low life-force value, and isn't very strong without her Drive (come on, she's a 13 year old girl).
The technique she used against Valkenhayn more or less put her on his level, but it wasn't specified other than it makes her only powerful for 3 minutes at best. True, she does manage to get a good grip on him so she can use her Drive, but no way would she have had that level of power without that technique.

Funnily enough, Relius uses something similar against Jin in CP, and says the Imperator taught him it...

Wait. I don't remember that. I really don't want to replay CP all over again until CPEX arrives on Steam, what part was it?

[Zedar90]

5 hours ago, Volt said:

Wait. I don't remember that. I really don't want to replay CP all over again until CPEX arrives on Steam, what part was it?

Episode 5 of Chronophantasma story, happens after the fight with Relius.