Volt Posted April 29, 2016 Posted April 29, 2016 5 hours ago, Fenris said: About Izanami's skeletal appearance during certain scenes or whatever: I don't think there is much to it aside from it's just a thematic representation of her design, abilities, and personality. Most depictions of Izanami tend to involve skeletons, ghosts, and things of that nature. I cannot think of a single time--in anime or video games--when this hasn't been the case. I doubt Relius' modifications went as far as turning Saya's body into...that, though. It'd definitely be a weird 'style/design' choice on Relius' behalf if that's indeed the case, but you never know. On that note, I think "defeating" Izanami is simply a matter of putting a stop to whatever "the girl" is doing. There might be a way to do this without having to kill her. Nah, scratch that, Mori WILL come up with a scenario where she isn't killed. After all, death is a joke and new bodies can be purchased for discount prices at the local BlueMart in this game. Anyway, yeah, it's probably all a matter of somehow having "the girl" hit the off switch on her drive (Izanami). (Also, to the guy that keeps bringing up the double-post thing, it's likely a part of a site-related issue that's been happening for a while now. It likely isn't the poster's fault. Happened to me a few times on here as well, and having been a mod on other forums before, I know better than to double-post intentionally. Just speaking from experience.) Anyone remember that creepy shot from Arakune's CP Arcade Ending? Didn't really mean all the creepy death flags everyone thought. I think they just wanted to reinforce the fact that Saya isn't your run of the mill human and that Izanami is Death. I'm more curious about what's going through her mind though. Relius as a therapist isn't exactly a good thing, right Makoto?
HoudiniJr100 Posted April 29, 2016 Posted April 29, 2016 31 minutes ago, Volt said: Anyone remember that creepy shot from Arakune's CP Arcade Ending? Didn't really mean all the creepy death flags everyone thought. I think they just wanted to reinforce the fact that Saya isn't your run of the mill human and that Izanami is Death. I'm more curious about what's going through her mind though. Relius as a therapist isn't exactly a good thing, right Makoto? Well we won't know for sure til console release, but even then.. I agree As for izanami, yes I agree that is the case somewhat, given arakune in CP was..very bloodied in a sense, I see where you feel it'll also be used with izanami to make sure people know she's more than a mere human vessel for the goddess
BlazGearRegalia Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Mind if I bring up Carl while we're talking about Relius? Yes? Okay, what are we gonna do with the heartless brat who's still obsessed with restoring his "sister"? [As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm gonna laugh if it turns out that Ada's soul isn't in Nirvana, which I'm really starting to believe]
Volt Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Just now, BlazGearRegalia said: Mind if I bring up Carl while we're talking about Relius? Yes? Okay, what are we gonna do with the heartless brat who's still obsessed with restoring his "sister"? [As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm gonna laugh if it turns out that Ada's soul isn't in Nirvana, which I'm really starting to believe] That would be Terumi-levels of dog kicking. I dig it. But it's more likely to have Ada's soul to be unsalvageable. A Nox's core is made of a bunch of souls, how is Carl supposed to get one in particular? But we still don't know what exactly is Ada's function in Nirvana. Is it the body? The core? This is way too trippy right now.
BlazGearRegalia Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, Volt said: That would be Terumi-levels of dog kicking. I dig it. But it's more likely to have Ada's soul to be unsalvageable. A Nox's core is made of a bunch of souls, how is Carl supposed to get one in particular? But we still don't know what exactly is Ada's function in Nirvana. Is it the body? The core? This is way too trippy right now. Was it ever really confirmed that Ada's soul is in Nirvana? I don't think we ever got a clear answer. [And if it is, when?] I'm just asking what are we gonna do with him? I was thinking my favorite beautiful fruit basket [Amane] would have him covered, but he's a little too busy helping out with saving the world. Dare I say, Relius Jr. is gonna become a serious issue if someone doesn't bring him to his senses.
Ogiga99 Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 27 minutes ago, BlazGearRegalia said: Was it ever really confirmed that Ada's soul is in Nirvana? I don't think we ever got a clear answer. [And if it is, when?] I'm just asking what are we gonna do with him? I was thinking my favorite beautiful fruit basket [Amane] would have him covered, but he's a little too busy helping out with saving the world. Dare I say, Relius Jr. is gonna become a serious issue if someone doesn't bring him to his senses. Considering Carl himself saw Relius do whatever he did to Ada to put her in Nirvana, yes that is 100% confirmed.
BlazGearRegalia Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said: Considering Carl himself saw Relius do whatever he did to Ada to put her in Nirvana, yes that is 100% confirmed. Seriously? Nope, nevermind, the damn Clovers have always been a mess for me to figure out... Back to the situation, is there any way to get Carl to cut his losses with his sister? No? Okay...
Vanagandr Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 8 hours ago, Volt said: A Nox's core is made of a bunch of souls, how is Carl supposed to get one in particular? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it possible for a lone soul to become a core of a Nox if certain conditions are met? Tenjo is an example. Rachel said that he have a "noble soul" and thus enough to become the core of the Rettenjo
JustaMaskedFreak Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Vanagandr said: Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it possible for a lone soul to become a core of a Nox if some condition are met? Tenjo is an example. Rachel said that he have a "noble soul" and thus enough to become the core of the Rettenjo Well, Nirvana is a Nox with a lone soul inside. If there are special conditions I don't remember.
Fenris Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Vanagandr said: Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it possible for a lone soul to become a core of a Nox if some condition are met? Tenjo is an example. Rachel said that he have a "noble soul" and thus enough to become the core of the Rettenjo Yeah, I think your example is correct. One probable exception is an extremely strong soul like Tenjou's. Like, a soul with the potential of several dozen souls or something. Either that, or [at least] some Noxes have a sort of "soul gauge" in which their strength increases with the amount of souls; the fewer souls, the weaker. The former is more probable, though, IMO.
1337 H@x0r Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Well... 20 hours ago, Ogiga99 said: No, the OPFD's soul cannot have been in her since Ibukido. The Master Unit is currently empty and Rachel explicitly says the world will disappear if it returns to the Boundary in this state. Logically, this means that before Amaterasu appeared in the end of CP, it was occupied by the OPFD's soul (otherwise the world wouldn't exist in the first place). The very fact that it is now empty confirms that the soul cannot be in two places at once meaning it could not be in Noel when it was in the Master Unit. Having the soul from the beginning would open up a dozen issues like how Amaterasu could use Phenomenon Intervention at the time, how could the OPFD's soul survive in the timelines where Noel doesn't exist (and how could those timelines continue to 2199 without a reset) and why didn't always have the Eye of the Azure, which the OPFD already possessed? Noel only became the Successor of the Azure AFTER the time loop was broken, meaning the Master Unit chose her long after she had her own soul. Not sure what you mean with Hazama and Clavis. They still have souls. Hazama's artificial body was made with one but it has nothing to do with the Azure Grimoire (Kazuma also had a soul and his body wasn't a Grimoire) and Clavis is a materialization of Azure, which is pretty much made of souls. I think this transference process is something slow and gradual which is evidenced by Izanami taking a long time sleeping before taking over Saya. In my view, before CT, OPFD was taking Mu's body for a test drive because she displayed the kind of life (happy family with friends) which OPFD wanted for so long. When the time loop broke, OPFD bought the car for real and started driving it but still left a piece of herself back home not to fuck everything up. Only at the end of CP did the OPFD said "FUCK THIS CRAZY SHIT! I am Noel Vermillion and none of this is happening!". And thus we got into the current situation.
Yoshirocks92 Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 25 minutes ago, 1337 H@x0r said: Well... I think this transference process is something slow and gradual which is evidenced by Izanami taking a long time sleeping before taking over Saya. In my view, before CT, OPFD was taking Mu's body for a test drive because she displayed the kind of life (happy family with friends) which OPFD wanted for so long. When the time loop broke, OPFD bought the car for real and started driving it but still left a piece of herself back home not to fuck everything up. Only at the end of CP did the OPFD said "FUCK THIS CRAZY SHIT! I am Noel Vermillion and none of this is happening!". And thus we got into the current situation. I guess that's an easy way of putting it.
BlazGearRegalia Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 2 hours ago, 1337 H@x0r said: Well... I think this transference process is something slow and gradual which is evidenced by Izanami taking a long time sleeping before taking over Saya. In my view, before CT, OPFD was taking Mu's body for a test drive because she displayed the kind of life (happy family with friends) which OPFD wanted for so long. When the time loop broke, OPFD bought the car for real and started driving it but still left a piece of herself back home not to fuck everything up. Only at the end of CP did the OPFD said "FUCK THIS CRAZY SHIT! I am Noel Vermillion and none of this is happening!". And thus we got into the current situation. Hmm, so the mystery now is what happened to OPFD to do all of this?
Yoshirocks92 Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 30 minutes ago, BlazGearRegalia said: Hmm, so the mystery now is what happened to OPFD to do all of this? Pretty much but I guess we'll find out in the Console Version to learn about the OPFD's backstory.
Volt Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 39 minutes ago, Yoshirocks92 said: Pretty much but I guess we'll find out in the Console Version to learn about the OPFD's backstory. Not really, what happened is what Rachel told with her Girl with the Book story. OPFD hijacked Mu and managed to live a pretty sweet life with family, friends and stuff but then things got real and she had to actually pick up Bolverk and do something. Then things went really bad after CP and she went "Nope, I'm just Noel, not my problem. Kusanagi is over there, she's the robot chick with blades and lasers, she deals with it." Noel's CT story is pretty much a definite proof that she really didn't want to do anything but chill and be happy all the time. She's constantly wanting to go back to her happy days, but she's gotta complete her mission. Now who am I talking about? OPFD or Noel? In hindsight, it should be obvious that Mu/Noel only had her happy years because the OPFD pulled a few strings in Ibukido, otherwise Mu would've gotten blown up.
BlazGearRegalia Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 19 minutes ago, Volt said: Not really, what happened is what Rachel told with her Girl with the Book story. OPFD hijacked Mu and managed to live a pretty sweet life with family, friends and stuff but then things got real and she had to actually pick up Bolverk and do something. Then things went really bad after CP and she went "Nope, I'm just Noel, not my problem. Kusanagi is over there, she's the robot chick with blades and lasers, she deals with it." Noel's CT story is pretty much a definite proof that she really didn't want to do anything but chill and be happy all the time. She's constantly wanting to go back to her happy days, but she's gotta complete her mission. Now who am I talking about? OPFD or Noel? In hindsight, it should be obvious that Mu/Noel only had her happy years because the OPFD pulled a few strings in Ibukido, otherwise Mu would've gotten blown up. Talk about pretty damn selfish and somewhat evil. [At least that's how I'm looking at it] Well, we'll have to wait to see what she's gonna do next.
1337 H@x0r Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Well... 1 hour ago, BlazGearRegalia said: Talk about pretty damn selfish and somewhat evil. [At least that's how I'm looking at it] Well, we'll have to wait to see what she's gonna do next. To be honest, the girl from the story does see herself as a monster. However, I don't see her as evil, just realistically human. A wise man named Stan Lee said that great power brings great responsability. However, when you just one day wakes up in the middle of eldritch darkness inside a giant satellite with godlike powers it's hard to blame you for abusing such power and screwing up royally. OPFD is just not fit for godhood and she never wanted it in the first place so the more sane characters like Amane, Kagura and Kokonoe figured out they need to replace the driver of Amaterasu with someone ready to be Spiderman.
Kenji Harima Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 On 29.04.2016 at 9:14 PM, Ogiga99 said: No, the OPFD's soul cannot have been in her since Ibukido. The Master Unit is currently empty and Rachel explicitly says the world will disappear if it returns to the Boundary in this state. Logically, this means that before Amaterasu appeared in the end of CP, it was occupied by the OPFD's soul (otherwise the world wouldn't exist in the first place). The very fact that it is now empty confirms that the soul cannot be in two places at once meaning it could not be in Noel when it was in the Master Unit. Having the soul from the beginning would open up a dozen issues like how Amaterasu could use Phenomenon Intervention at the time, how could the OPFD's soul survive in the timelines where Noel doesn't exist (and how could those timelines continue to 2199 without a reset) and why didn't always have the Eye of the Azure, which the OPFD already possessed? Noel only became the Successor of the Azure AFTER the time loop was broken, meaning the Master Unit chose her long after she had her own soul. I understand that it's empty in the way that the OPFD as device it connected (physically) to the Master Unit but doesn't have a soul. I have mentioned it because I have seen on several sites that some people have interpreted it that nothing/nobody is/it linked to the Master Unit and totally forgotting about disturbing view on which a blonde, pale girl is crucified. Just huge satellite it's flying and chilling around without any wielder. In the reality... I am still asking myself with these questions which you have brought and more others before I wrote my previous post cause I don't have a really reliable and reasonable arguments about it. 1) In the beginning I thoguht that she (I would stay at term „she”) was doing Phenomenon Intervention subconsciosuly (as the Noel on this world, she can use the power of Azure and still observes the world) but there is a problem... A girl named Noel Vermillion as I remember survived in several timelines right? (Informations from the CT). Speaking of specific „Phenomenons” like „time rewind” if I am correct Takamagahara System was responsible for back to the previous century whenever Ragna and Nu-13 fused. Of course they aren't powerful as much as Amaterasu but they could rewind time. It could be that „god” angered with it and try to do something. There was also a possibility that „she” exchanged their souls (that's why a „real” Noel was in the OPFD) but thanks to Mu Act'3 ending we know that Master Unit it's „empty” so another theory going to the bin. 2) How did OPFD's soul could survive? This soul is „special” somehow because from all which the Azure contains this one possessed the OPFD. As the „Eye...” it might be not so easily destroyed even if the Nox Nyctores would be used (cause Take-Mikazuchi it's one as well) and always will be back to Master Unit throught the Boundary. Speculations I know. We have a Jin and Hakumen who also have different story from one point but the same origin (however Hakumen's soul seems to be changed a little) and Nu's soul always survives too. 3) Yes, the most problematic question because it's excluding two points which I have brought before. Only in this one timeline she was able to rescue Ragna from sink in the Cauldron. Too simple theory I know but this is creating another questions: Why was she waiting so long for the occasion? Why did so many loops need to happen? Etc. etc. However all this mess seem to not be so tragic as I used to think for Noel. Especially because Amane (according to his Act 3's ending) wants Noel to surive thanks to his idea to send Amaterasu throught the Nemesis Horizon + change the god. This issue still has many mysteries but whatever going to happen I hope that subject's origin knows as „OPFD called Noel” won't be another loop created somewhere by someone -_- On 29.04.2016 at 9:14 PM, Ogiga99 said: Not sure what you mean with Hazama and Clavis. They still have souls. Hazama's artificial body was made with one but it has nothing to do with the Azure Grimoire (Kazuma also had a soul and his body wasn't a Grimoire) and Clavis is a materialization of Azure, which is pretty much made of souls. It might be obvious question but... when and how is a new soul born in the BB's universe? Sentient creatures (excluding some exceptions) are probably easy case → someone was born so the soul (thanks to the Azure probably). Artificial creatures → there is a need to put someone soul, doesn't have own. I have forgotten if there is a possibility to create strong one from smelting many souls. I used to think the Azure Grimoire (isn't powerful as the Azure but still related to it) also gives a self-conciousness to artificial being. I know that Azure contains souls but the list of Azure-related beings list it's longer but we really can be sure they have a soul? I doubt that Relius be able to extract one or rather to say "something" from Rachel or Valkenhayn. On 29.04.2016 at 9:30 PM, Toxin45 said: I think he meant that Noel and Mu were not the same entity. He meant that Mu is her vessel similar to how hazama is to Terumi. Also How can Noel house the Soul of girl inside Ammy if she and Mu spilt? Excatly. Personally Mu and Noel can't be the same anymore. However Mu could be a personification of Noel's "bad side" personality if she would possessed "hate state" which she used to show. On 29.04.2016 at 9:21 PM, NoelChan101 said: How did on earth could he do that I know its Relius but wow. I doubt she would be able to even stand You know... This "mad magicial-scientist" has transformed both his wife and daughter so... nothing new. PS. Mind blown again. Sorry for my english -> hope that all my posts since beginning are readable (especially long like this).
NoelChan101 Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 Noel no longer is the successor according to Jin but Mu still has the true Azure maybe Amaterasu split Mu 12/Noel being in to 2. Because Mu 12 is still called Noel Vermilion So Maybe that theory of Mu 12 being our Noel might be true So by splitting the part called Noel Vermilion And the other part Mu 12 keeps Noel from observing that gate But Amaterasu has possessed the part known as Noel Vermillion Another theory is that this represents Amaterasu wanting to get away from her Power the Azure Mu is Kusanagi and has the True Azure Noel in her Normal form is like Normal. Also if Amaterasu possessed Mu wouldn't they have made some sort of pact But then there is part where Noel blackout like when she called Ragna brother she also calls him this in BBCF when she wins a match in act 3. Or when she acts like a robot similar to nu maybe Amaterasu temporarily possessed Noel IDK
Toxin45 Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 I think it was more forced that Noel stole mu's body. the amateratsu girl intentionally erased her own memories and had Mu's memories of saya.
1337 H@x0r Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 Well... 1 hour ago, NoelChan101 said: Noel no longer is the successor according to Jin but Mu still has the true Azure maybe Amaterasu split Mu 12/Noel being in to 2. Because Mu 12 is still called Noel Vermilion So Maybe that theory of Mu 12 being our Noel might be true So by splitting the part called Noel Vermilion And the other part Mu 12 keeps Noel from observing that gate But Amaterasu has possessed the part known as Noel Vermillion Another theory is that this represents Amaterasu wanting to get away from her Power the Azure Mu is Kusanagi and has the True Azure Noel in her Normal form is like Normal. Also if Amaterasu possessed Mu wouldn't they have made some sort of pact But then there is part where Noel blackout like when she called Ragna brother she also calls him this in BBCF when she wins a match in act 3. Or when she acts like a robot similar to nu maybe Amaterasu temporarily possessed Noel IDK Noel's blackouts and memories of Saya's childhood are because Mu-12 is a clone of Saya with pieces of her soul. To put it bluntly, Noel is a clusterfuck of people inside one with a goddess, a killer robot and an ambigous brocon taking up the wheel at different points.
NoelChan101 Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 But from what it looks like Mu wants to Become one once more with Noel I doubt it was forceful
kylehyde Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 So Noel calls Ragna brother in her win quote? Does that mean she already acknowledges that he is her brother? That's some pretty big development if you ask me. Even if it's just a win quote that's kind of a big deal.
Toxin45 Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 57 minutes ago, NoelChan101 said: But from what it looks like Mu wants to Become one once more with Noel I doubt it was forceful Well Noel declined and seems to get her memories mixed up with Mu's. You know I am starting to question if Ragna really is related to Jin and Saya. Since Ragna is not born a human while Jin and Saya are just "customized" by Relius Ragna appears to be different,and Relius seems to not have created Ragna but called to the real Grimore or something.Ragna seems to at least be aware of it and that the girl that was inside amateratsu has a connection to him OPFD and that Ragna might be older than he looks.
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