Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Stryker115]

That Famitsu pic with young Ragna and his siblings REALLY seem to reinforce my headcanon that Saya and Jin are in fact TWINS.

[Toxin45]

Also Hazama is the one that let ragna escape for his plans.

[Yoshirocks92]

You know something's been bugging me, in Kagura's Act 3 ending Kokonoe tells him that Noel is the Master Unit itself but here's the question, how did Kokonoe know that Noel is the Master Unit like did someone tell her about it or did she figure it out on her own?

[heavymetalmixer]

6 minutes ago, Yoshirocks92 said:

You know something's been bugging me, in Kagura's Act 3 ending Kokonoe tells him that Noel is the Master Unit itself but here's the question, how did Kokonoe know that Noel is the Master Unit like did someone tell her about it or did she figure it out on her own?

Maybe Nine told her.

[TD]

What in the 9 hells is going on in here

[ImmaYuukiTerumi]

Where are you finding the Famitsu pics?

[ImmaYuukiTerumi]

7 hours ago, Toxin45 said:

Also Hazama is the one that let ragna escape for his plans.

Hazama for true final boss.

 

Hazama: You thought since Terumi has his own body now that I would be irrevlant? Think again.

[Kenji Harima]

3 hours ago, ImmaYuukiTerumi said:

Where are you finding the Famitsu pics?

Enjoy:

F**king photobucket and their resolution's changes. Download links to full-size pictures:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/s4wszqdt67jmc2h/Famitsu+1.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/download/bm91b2l7edb4i7u/Famitsu+2.jpg

 

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Am I blind or what? How I didn't spot it earlier that Izanami has both Ragna's and Naoto's tattoos on her hmm let's call it uniform (She wears several clothes so I won't call it dress). The first Ragna's it's on the lower part of this uniform and second (Naoto) it's on her helmet.

And Again: are they interesting but non plot-related details which have been brought by creators to confuse/play with us or some potential connection?

[ImmaYuukiTerumi]

Thanks.

[Toxin45]

4 hours ago, Yoshirocks92 said:

You know something's been bugging me, in Kagura's Act 3 ending Kokonoe tells him that Noel is the Master Unit itself but here's the question, how did Kokonoe know that Noel is the Master Unit like did someone tell her about it or did she figure it out on her own?

In her act 3 

[SixWingedAngel]

have you guys checked this little detail out (es has a mark similar to noel/ragna/ect)? Is this official or is it some kind of troll by the creators of the sheet? I haven't finished xblaze or seen arcade spoilers yet, but it points to some interesting relations.

 

 

Spoiler

 

[Toxin45]

It's official it's also just like the amateratsu girl.

[antonymichiru]

Thank you

[Kenji Harima]

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

-------------------------------------------

Whatever it's going to happen in the main story I really hope there won't be/aren't going to be any parental issues: I mean (mainly) that Amaterasu "Woman" won't turn out as a mother for any hero. I have been afraid about solutions like this since I read several manga where were also an adventures and travels through "dimension and time" (Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle anyone?) like in the BB.

It's really hard to point what these tattoos mean -> ES, Ragna, Naoto, Izanami, "The Girl", Noel and Nu-13 have them. Nu-13's and Noel's different from the rest. Probably because of their "Murakumo" status. What with the rest? Because of Azure-related possibility? It's too random to bring any reliable theory.

[MaximusMurkimus]

I'm sure there's some reason behind them though, I can't think of much that has happened in BlazBlue with no real purpose. Also, all those pics in Famitsu would make much better character select photos than the official art we got.

On a grim note, I was always wondering this since her playable reveal. Are Izanami's feet binded, (or even worse, missing), or just comedically drawn in proportion to the rest of her body? It was a little harder to tell in the official art but this one is from a better angle; it also helps confirms the doll joints under her arms too. It would explain her fondness for floating/teleporting both in the story and while playable (although she does seem to walk away from Terumi at the beginning of CP) Saya didn't seem to have anything unusual about her as a child, either. Maybe Relius screwed up during the process and she just said "Eh, I'm more of a 'floater' person anyway"

[NoelChan101]

Question: Since a vessel is needed for someone who is "outside" like Amaterasu using Mu, if the vessel is destroyed would the soul return to it's original body or disappear along with the body? 

[NoelChan101]

I ask this because if someone manages to kill Izanami's vessel "Saya" would she go back to Amaterasu becoming nothing but a mere drive, also if Izanami had no soul how did she possess Saya.

But also how does Izanami plan on pulling Amaterasu's Soul from her vessel Noel/Mu I mean it doesn't seem like an easy task, unless she destroys the vessel. They separated Terumi from his vessel "Hazama" with Trinity and Rachel's help, Saya is having trouble evicting Izanami out of her body no matter how hard she fights back and IDK if they can leave the body voluntarily. Unless the vessel is unusable from what we seen in Relius' ending in BBCSEX. 

Though about Noel getting the sudden god hood maybe Saya, Lambda, Nu, Mu could be fragments of Amaterasu's soul, maybe they somehow managed to salvage chunk of her soul or maybe Amaterasu somehow did that and, purposefully left a little of her soul in the Master Unit. To keep the world existing . Saya had most of it that's probably why Izanami had trouble dominating her and why she still has trouble using Saya's body without her influencing Izanami, via feeling towards Ragna. But since I guess Relius may have split up her soul into fragments made it somewhat easier though not completely in control. So in between all the PFDs we know Lambda, Nu, Mu possibly share the same soul, have Saya's voice face and memories but Noel/Mu has most of the memories so Saya's body almost like the girl's body was almost empty only a tiny bit of soul left. Which leaves her nearly powerless against Izanami's possession. Lambda and Nu only has bits and pieces of the soul but this does explain how they all are connected to Ragna. Even Ragna says the Girl knows him, Noel getting the power of the Azure was just the Amaterasu unit recognizing it's users Soul.

During CP I think Hakumen said that the vessel would be no different the person that is meant to possess them, also Terumi says that the soul has to be similar in order to "merge" with the "vessel" and a pact is needed. Izanami soul isn't similar to Saya's and she didn't have one in the first place until act 3 where she grows one, even terumi says Izanami is "mixed" to much with Saya. ( I don't really know what that means really)

But I guess when Noel/Mu saw the gate she possibly reunited with last bit of Amaterasu's soul and I guess to get rid of the power of God slaying and observing I guess, and cast that part of her soul away. Mu in CF is a manifestation according to Amane who calls Mu her power, Mu is Noel's ability to slay gods and both need to be one in order to awaken her true potential. But Noel says she is afraid of her power and thus rejects Mu her "power"

 

Just me theorizing 

[Axiomatic]

1 hour ago, NoelChan101 said:

Question: Since a vessel is needed for someone who is "outside" like Amaterasu using Mu, if the vessel is destroyed would the soul return to it's original body or disappear along with the body? 

--Nit pick--

A vessel is not needed absolutely for a soul. For example, Terumi was able to function (although marginally) without a host in Phase Shift 1 and those moments in CT he speaks to Rachel. Your operational definition of "outside" could use some further elaboration because there are possible sources of confusion caused by it. 

Currently there are two kinds of "outside":

1.) Those outside of logic: examples include Valkenhayn (werewolves were created by sorcery at some point and thus exist outside of logic), the Black Beast (which explains why it was nigh invulnerable to human attacks during the Dark War)

2.) The other is less elaborated on, but includes those that seem to be more than just outside logic : Amatarasu and spirit form Terumi.

The distinction derives from the fact we know nothing, not even Ars magus (which is capable of harming those outside of logic as evident by its ability to harm the Black Beast) can concretely kill these two for various circumstances. In Amatarasu's case its not clear exactly why the Successor of the Azure (SotA)/ a Kusanagi is needed to kill/destroy Amatarasu and if a Kusanagi/SotA could also kill Terumi.

If I recall Terumi's description in Noel's True end in CS, its the fact the SotA can observe anything it wants and make it real. I have always translated that to my understanding of BB's plot as it forces things to adhere to logic or enter accessible reality (as in how Noel "created" the door to enter Tenjo's hiding place for Kushinada's lynchpin). Now we know Time Killer can affect Terumi but its unclear if it could affect Amatarasu as well. Nine also stated it would be impossible to "kill" Terumi since he is Yuuki Terumi but take that for what you will. All we know for sure is he is currently in trouble of ceasing to exist if he doesnt get a new host as of CF. 

One obstacle is as one of the Sankishin, the Susano'o unit may be incapable of killing the other two units/their wielders (hence why Terumi abandoned the Susano'o unit in the first place). The other is that Amatarasu appears to exist in a higher plane of reality or a similar concept because of its ability to be unaffected by the timeloops, any other weapon in the Blazblue world other than a Kusanagi, and having the ability to perform phenomenon intervention on anything it wants. 

 

 

--Short Answer--

I don't know for sure. I think she wouldn't have to return to her body and she wouldn't die either. 

 

 

--Long Answer--

Now onto the question you asked:

Its really unclear since our only point of reference, Terumi, has had more bodies than we have murakumo units (the susano'o, 2100 body that he loses when the Black Beast enters the world, Kazuma, Hazuma, and the Terumi body Trinity created in CP). I'm unsure if "original" would apply to the body he held first (the Susano'o to our knowledge) or to the body he was last bonded to.  

As we saw with Terumi, when Kazuma was dragged into the boundary by Hakumen when he jumped Jubei and Hakumen after "killing" Nine and Trinity, its unclear in my memory what happens to the vessel Kazuma (I believe Trinity states in one of the CF arcade routes that there was no bringing back Kazuma when Terumi tried to manipulate her again). However, we do know that Takamagahara fished Terumi out of that deep part of the boundary (Kazuma not included) and was effectively observing him. Thus the spirit form of Terumi was not returned to the Susano'o unit (Terumi's presumed original body) when this occurred, as Hakumen would retain control of it until Kokonoe dragged him out of the boundary. 

Now, its not stated (to my knowledge) when Terumi came to possess the Hazama body so its not out of the realm of possibility that he returned to that one. I don't have a reference but I believe both the Kazuma and Hazama body where both completed before the Dark War began in 2100, but I definitely need to find a citation for that. The period from 2110-2190ish is left pretty open in Blazblue lore, and we know Relius ended up in 2180ish after falling into the boundary so he had plenty of time to create/complete/etc the Hazama body for Terumi in this window; recall how Relius did comment on Terumi's ghost form when they reunited so I am of the belief Terumi was without Hazama prior to meeting with the time-displaced Relius. It would also explain why Terumi didn't just use Hazama during the Dark War and instead was forced to try to get Kazuma to be his host. 

Now Terumi isn't exactly the same kind of entity as Amatarasu/the Girl, but the way Terumi has been operating suggests that Amatarasu's soul would not necessarily be destroyed if a host body was destroyed. The precedent suggest she doesn't have to return to her original body either.  

[Steve-Fiction]

On 23.7.2016 at 4:33 AM, MaximusMurkimus said:

Also, all those pics in Famitsu would make much better character select photos than the official art we got.

I'm pretty sure those are some of their story mode artworks, and having them as character select photos would be very inconsistent.

[Ogiga99]

19 hours ago, NoelChan101 said:

Question: Since a vessel is needed for someone who is "outside" like Amaterasu using Mu, if the vessel is destroyed would the soul return to it's original body or disappear along with the body? 

First of all, I don't think we can use Terumi as a point of reference since he is something entirely different from Amaterasu and Izanami. Amaterasu and Izanami are considered "gods" whereas Terumi is an unknown type of spirit. Terumi also needed a special type of vessel with a personality very close to his own whereas Izanami just needed a suitable body (in Saya's case because of her ability to amplify seithr) and for Terumi to destroy Saya's mind. Noel/Mu/Amaterasu is still a confusing mess when it comes to Noel being the Master Unit's "core" and "The Origin" so she's hard to pin down. Furthermore, Terumi's vessels are physically a different kind them Amaterasu and Izanami's. Hazama and Kazuma are Azure Grimoires in human form while Mu is a Prime Field made entirely out of seithr (according to Kokonoe and Kagura, Saya is too which I'm confused on since Relius says she is "only human flesh" so who knows). The mechanics are too different.

For the question of if they will disappear if their vessel is destroyed, the answer is a pretty clear no. In CP Rachel tells Ragna that he cannot kill Izanami because she is "death" and the best he can hope to do is destroy her vessel, meaning you can only deprive her of a way to interact with the world at most. Kokonoe says the same thing in Kagura's Act 3. "Humans cannot kill a God...Neither Izanami or Noel...However, their "vessel" is a different story."

As for the question of Amaterasu returning to her original body in the Master Unit, that's a little less clear. There is no precedent for someone in a vessel having an "original" body to return to. Since Izanami is a manifestation of Amaterasu's Drive, I don't think she ever had her own body so she should be fine if she stays in the Boundary. If I had to guess I would say that yes, killing Noel would return the soul of The Girl to the Master Unit. Izanami wants to return Noel "to her coffin" and she is clearly referring to the Master Unit. Remember that Izanami is the one who sent everyone off on the "kill Noel" quest so clearly that fits into her plan. I would imagine that Amaterasu's options are very limited when it comes to vessels. Noel Vermillion is a unique existence, being the Successor of the Azure chosen by the Master Unit. I don't think The Girl could just jump into say Tao if things go south. I would also doubt that just hiding as a soul would work for some reason and it definitely would deprive her of the means to act against the villains. Either that or Izanami has some way to capture her soul once it loses its vessel and force it to return. Kushinada's Lynchpin would be one way to do this. It can nullify the seithr of the Prime Field body, destroying the vessel, and then trap the soul inside it. I wouldn't be surprised if Izanami has another way to do it though.

 

20 hours ago, Axiomatic said:

The distinction derives from the fact we know nothing, not even Ars magus (which is capable of harming those outside of logic as evident by its ability to harm the Black Beast) can concretely kill these two for various circumstances. In Amatarasu's case its not clear exactly why the Successor of the Azure (SotA)/ a Kusanagi is needed to kill/destroy Amatarasu and if a Kusanagi/SotA could also kill Terumi.

Actually we do know of another way to kill them, the Nox Nyctores. Specifically it seems to be a fusion of all of the Nox Nyctores like the complete Take-Mikazuchi. In Act 1, Nine tells several characters to gather the Nox in order to kill Izanami and in Act 3 she says that she intends to create Take-Mikazuchi and have it absorb all of the seithr in the Embryo to destroy Amaterasu. Even the incomplete Take-Mikazuchi was apparently dangerous enough that Rachel felt it necessary to shield the Master Unit from with Tsukuyomi so I don't see any reason to doubt this.

 

20 hours ago, Axiomatic said:

As we saw with Terumi, when Kazuma was dragged into the boundary by Hakumen when he jumped Jubei and Hakumen after "killing" Nine and Trinity, its unclear in my memory what happens to the vessel Kazuma (I believe Trinity states in one of the CF arcade routes that there was no bringing back Kazuma when Terumi tried to manipulate her again). However, we do know that Takamagahara fished Terumi out of that deep part of the boundary (Kazuma not included) and was effectively observing him. Thus the spirit form of Terumi was not returned to the Susano'o unit (Terumi's presumed original body) when this occurred, as Hakumen would retain control of it until Kokonoe dragged him out of the boundary.

During the explanation of "operation kill Terumi" in the Six Heroes route, Valkenhayn says that Kazuma's body was lost in the Boundary when Terumi was sealed. The Trinity thing was in reference to Terumi taunting her about the possibility that a little part of Kazuma's personality might still exist inside of Terumi's mind, which is of course nonsense since Terumi had to split his mind from Kazuma's completely to protect himself from Nine's Mind Eater. Kazuma is for all intents and purposes gone.

 

On 7/28/2016 at 9:46 PM, Axiomatic said:

Now, its not stated (to my knowledge) when Terumi came to possess the Hazama body so its not out of the realm of possibility that he returned to that one. I don't have a reference but I believe both the Kazuma and Hazama body where both completed before the Dark War began in 2100, but I definitely need to find a citation for that.

This comes from CPEX Library mode. Apparently Hazama was meant as a backup body which means Terumi never used it before.

[churchblue]

I'm betting that there will be a gag reel with Es doing things to Noel.

[FKGunBlaze]

1 hour ago, churchblue said:

I'm betting that there will be a gag reel with Es doing things to Noel.

I want Es to be Litchi's victim >:)

[Luminos564]

On 7/30/2016 at 1:38 PM, GunBlazer said:

I want Es to be Litchi's victim >:)

Ah, the hilarity that is Litchi pouncing on an unsuspecting female victim in a drunken stupor. A longstanding BlazBlue tradition since the days of CT no less. However, as prime a target that Es would likely make in this scenario, I fear I must disagree. Litchi's 1st victim was Noel, who probably would have invoked Mu-12 (ver. Nihilism) prematurely if it weren't for the nearby Liao Jiu willingly sacrificing himself for the greater good. Her 2nd victim was the straight arrow Tsubaki, whom she blackmailed over the loss of some overcooked waterfowl. Her last known victim was Bullet, a drill sergeant and not one to fool around.

What do all these 3 ladies have in common? They were all uncomfortable with Ms. Litchi being all touchy-feely with them and their wardrobe. Their overreactions were the payoff. With Es it'd probably go something like this:

Litchi: Oh my, what a lovely lady you are. Oh by the Heavens you must try this!  (Slaps Mu-12's outfit on Es)
Es: Although the garments allow for more flexible range of movement, I feel rather exposed and drafty, thus lowering my combat proficiency. Kindly return to me my original outfit.

You see where I am going with this? Es wouldn't even flinch at the idea of getting put into that situation. So I propose that instead of having her around, we toss in Izanami instead . And then have the gag reel go completely overboard because not only will Izanami be really into the whole idea but she'll also freak Litchi out. Thus finally the first 3 victims getting sweet revenge by proxy.

[FKGunBlaze]

11 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

I propose that instead of having her around, we toss in Izanami instead . And then have the gag reel go completely overboard because not only will Izanami be really into the whole idea but she'll also freak Litchi out. Thus finally the first 3 victims getting sweet revenge by proxy.

Holy shit, that's brilliant!

[Yoshirocks92]

On July 30, 2016 at 9:41 AM, churchblue said:

I'm betting that there will be a gag reel with Es doing things to Noel.

Well even though I would like to see that happen as a Gag Ending, there's a little voice inside my head and it's telling me that even though we may not get a Gag Ending between them (but crossing my fingers they will) I can see some interaction between Noel and Es in the story and they have a unique quote if they were to fight each other that relates to the story mode.