Accent Core Venom Thread

[frtpunchsamurai]

Don't waste your tension for fb ms loops unless their guard bar is quite full. But if you want your combos to be fancy then its your choice. Practice cr loop pressure. ps i didn't watch the whole video

[TittyFOFO]

Err 6p,6hs,cr isnt really that great even though i insisted it last time lol. i focus more on getting electric balls on corners than doing the BNB combo. basically 6p 6hs cr is used if you want moar damage and if you are going for a dubious curve on corner( 6p, 6hs, cr, 6hs, sum s, 5s, dubious curve).

And for damaging combo's you should try to increase first their guard meter and the most damaging combo would be the dubious curve loop. if you like, you can try it as your main corner combo for moar damage, but you should've just main'd slayer if you love damage whoring. since venom is a setup based character you'll have to concentrate on your setups.

You know, I kinda think this game forces you to damage whore regardless of what character you play. With so many characters being able to do stupid damage with no real effort or setup due to braindead forcebreaks and shit, you kinda need to be looking to end a round as quickly as possible IMO. Offense is way too good in AC for pretty much every character, so you don't wanna give the other guy a chance to get things going against Venom and his relatively terrible defensive options.

Fortunately, AC Venom happens to be pretty damn good at getting decent setups from his damaging combos, so it's not really a huge deal as long as your execution is up to par. He also, cranks guardbar like nobody's business, so that helps.

[ky0n01]

You know, I kinda think this game forces you to damage whore regardless of what character you play. With so many characters being able to do stupid damage with no real effort or setup due to braindead forcebreaks and shit, you kinda need to be looking to end a round as quickly as possible IMO. Offense is way too good in AC for pretty much every character, so you don't wanna give the other guy a chance to get things going against Venom and his relatively terrible defensive options.

Fortunately, AC Venom happens to be pretty damn good at getting decent setups from his damaging combos, so it's not really a huge deal as long as your execution is up to par. He also, cranks guardbar like nobody's business, so that helps.

Actually damage whoring/mixups isn't that bad with Venom. But setting up balls is just slightly better. If we balance both strengths then we can maximize Venom. The real problem lies with our low damaging options. Most characters can get big damage out of their mixups while Venom does half. Altho Nanasi proved how strong Venom's offense is, N-O's hybrid style proved to be better or rather the best.

[Tage*Proto]

Hey guys just a few quick questions with venom. I can do the CR loop in the corner off of a throw, but how many loops is optimal? It seems on some characters I can get two full loops, then 6hs to dubious curve, but on others like sol if I remember I can barely get anything after the first rep. Also, I have some decent ball formations after mid screen knockdown, but I guess I don't really have a solid mix-up in mind? I guess what i'm trying to say is, I have the formations good enough to get them to sit and block on oki, but am missing out on some strong mid-screen mix-up. Typically what I like to do is either combo into hs DC, then dash jump k into either low a.d mixup or empty jump low stuff. And just my two cents thrown in, but to me the hardest part about learning or playing venom isnt combos or ball formations, it's his actual poke game. IMO it's hella character specific which pokes you use and when with venom and that really fucks me up. Any help is appreciated.

[Ross]

What is the order of the balls for the formation all the venoms seem to be going for after midscreen throw now... I know it's throw run foward a bit 6p, 6hs, ball set, 6hs ball set dash run foward ball set, so you get the triangle around them. I just looked for a match that has it for like 30 minutes, but couldn't find it... anyways hopefully someone knows what I mean and can tell me the correct ball set.

[ky0n01]

Hey guys just a few quick questions with venom.

I can do the CR loop in the corner off of a throw, but how many loops is optimal? It seems on some characters I can get two full loops, then 6hs to dubious curve, but on others like sol if I remember I can barely get anything after the first rep.

Also, I have some decent ball formations after mid screen knockdown, but I guess I don't really have a solid mix-up in mind? I guess what i'm trying to say is, I have the formations good enough to get them to sit and block on oki, but am missing out on some strong mid-screen mix-up. Typically what I like to do is either combo into hs DC, then dash jump k into either low a.d mixup or empty jump low stuff.

And just my two cents thrown in, but to me the hardest part about learning or playing venom isnt combos or ball formations, it's his actual poke game. IMO it's hella character specific which pokes you use and when with venom and that really fucks me up.

Any help is appreciated.

how many loops? im not really sure as i prioritize getting an electric ball in the corner. if you want strong damage then i suggest you learn this combo (throw> 6p 6h cr > 6H > ball P> 5P> 6H> ball p > 5s> DC/DHM

Combo into hs dc if you want them to be pushed into the corner or teleport mixup if you want damage. there are a lot of ball formation which can teleport you behind them.

edit: try doing option select throwing on oki S+H. if the throw failed 5S will be executed.

here are the ones i usually use:

P> S

H>K> P

D> P

I only do crazy mixups like this when my life bar is below 10% or if my rage mode is on. grrrrrrrrrr!

[Tage*Proto]

Nice, thanks.

[ajinkris]

What is the order of the balls for the formation all the venoms seem to be going for after midscreen throw now...

I know it's throw run foward a bit 6p, 6hs, ball set, 6hs ball set dash run foward ball set, so you get the triangle around them. I just looked for a match that has it for like 30 minutes, but couldn't find it... anyways hopefully someone knows what I mean and can tell me the correct ball set.

@Ross

the actual formation is :

D > HS > P

the combo is (cannot be used as a crossup in the corner):

midscreen throw > 66 > 6P > 6HS > D.ball > 66 > 6HS > HS.ball > 66 > P.ball > warp

Note that you will be slightly airborne when you warp behind your opponent, allowing you to instantly j.S the ball behind him, then jump cancel into j.K to hit the ball above him. There are a lot of interesting mixups that you can derive from this formation, but I would refrain from using it all the time because your opponent will catch on eventually.

@Tage*Proto

For straigh up damage, I always just do the standard combo. It works on most characters (though the dash timing gets tricky on females and the likes), so I would practice the following:

corner throw > 66 > 6P > 6HS > HS.ball > 66 > 6P > 6HS > S.carcass > 66> 6HS > S.ball > 5S xx ex.DHM

I would also practice warp combos in the corner. You'll note that if you land a ground hit into a c.5S(3), the launch will push you too far back for you to use a 6P > 6HS > CR combo most of the time. In this situation, you want to 6P > 6HS > X.ball > 6HS > warp > j.X > land > 6HS > S.ball > 5S > X.dubious or ex.DHM.

As for midscreen stuff...

It isn't always bad for you just to throw out a P.ball or S.ball, 5P it then go for standard ground mixup. Remember that you would ultimately prefer to push them into the corner, so anything that aids in shoving them towards a particular direction is good.

As far as midscreen mixup goes, there are a ton of options. I'll list a few of the ones I use most commonly. What you use, the HS.ball mixup, is totally fine. You get three possible mixup options off of it (j.HS > IAD > j.mixup; j.HS > IAD > landing low mixup; j.HS > IAD > empty land > throw), so it's a solid one to use on a regular basis.

X > 2D mixup setups

commonly used after landing a ground string midscreen (generally either off a 2K or TK.mad struggle). The standard thing to do is just P.ball > 5P > 66 and go for either 2K or TK.mad struggle, but below are more trickier options.

(note K.ball setups you'll always end up on the other side of the opponent)

2D > K.ball > 66 xx j.K > land > 2K

2D > K.ball > 66 xx j.K > IAD backwards > j.S > 2K

2D > K.ball > 66 xx j.L > IAD backwards > land > throw

2D > HS.ball > 66 xx S.ball > 2D > S.stinger

2D(2) > HS.ball > 66 xx j.K > S.mad struggle

2D(2) > HS.ball > 66 xx j.S > land > 2K

X > 5HS mixup setups

5HS > D.dubious > P.ball > warp > IAD > j.S > j.HS

5HS > D.dubious > P.ball > warp > j.S > 2K

5HS > HS.dubious > 66 xx j.HS > IAD > j.S > j.HS

5HS > HS.dubious > 66 xx j.HS > land > 2K

5HS > HS.dubious > 66 xx j.HS > IAD > land > throw

5HS > P.dubious > HS.ball > 2S > IAD > j.HS > land > 2K

midscreen throw mixup setups

throw > 66 > 6P > 6HS > D.ball > 66 > 6HS > HS.ball > 66 > P.ball > warp > j.S

throw > 5S(2) > TK.HS mad struggle > HS.ball > 66 xx j.K > S.mad struggle

throw > 5S(2) > TK.HS mad struggle > HS.ball > 66 xx j.S > land > 2K

throw > 66 > 6P > 6HS > S.ball > K.ball > 66 xx j.K > IAD > land > throw

Obviously there's a crapload more, but those are some of the more common ones I use (and are seen used by jp Venom players).

Also, you're right about Venom. His hard part isn't learning his combos or ball formations, it's more of learning how to flow with him. In Accent Core, you will be quickly overwhelmed and punished if you don't have a good sense of timing. Most, if not all, of Venom's moves have a huge amount of recovery, meaning you can't mindlessly spam anything or ball summon when it isn't safe. Learning how to apply pressure, effectively zone, constantly mix setups, and taking every damage opportunity is the true challenge. Also, since I've started playing Venom, my fundamentals and defense have gone way up, because playing a character who has less escape options really helps me learn to keep calm while getting rushed down in the corner and not mash pokes to try and get out.

Play smart.

@Ky0n01

I play a more Nanashi-style Venom. While I use more setups and ball-mixups than he does, I prefer to be constantly pressuring and going for damage instead of setups. I'd rather not give my opponent the chance to escape or make a comeback, so I value maximizing damage opportunities. I know it's preference, but as Titan says, you can still get strong setups off of good damage combos. Examples would be ending your regular corner combo with 5S > X.dubious instead of 5S > ex.DHM. Even then, you can go for standard high-low mixup and continue cranking guard in the corner.

However, against certain types of characters and/or players (usually ones with a DP), I am forced to play the ball game and fight from a set-distance. In those particular matchups, ball setting and the "hybrid" style are of much greater value.

[Ross]

Thanks MCR! Now I'll have better midsreen ball set after throw!

[ajinkris]

Thanks MCR! Now I'll have better midsreen ball set after throw!

Sure man. Watch some Neko vids if you want to see some crossup action. He plays a the yellow-green Venom and uses this formation all the time. The most common video on youtube of him is the old ass 3v3 character battles from 07 (MI vs VE and TE vs VE).

[ky0n01]

It seems like i am not the only one here who thinks N-O lacks mixup.

[ajinkris]

It seems like i am not the only one here who thinks N-O lacks mixup.

Whatcha mean?

[ky0n01]

Because he plays too safe imo. He's probably scared to lose.

[ajinkris]

Because he plays too safe imo. He's probably scared to lose.

Haha. That's also the same style that makes him ridiculously annoying and nearly impossible to penetrate his defense while he's properly zoning. I don't know if he's actually lacking mixups (I mean, VE doesn't really have that many, just confusing ball setups), but yes, I don't see him do anything risky. But then again, he wins a lot. Safe > cool :P

[ky0n01]

Haha. That's also the same style that makes him ridiculously annoying and nearly impossible to penetrate his defense while he's properly zoning. I don't know if he's actually lacking mixups (I mean, VE doesn't really have that many, just confusing ball setups), but yes, I don't see him do anything risky. But then again, he wins a lot. Safe > cool :P

He sucked in SBO though bec he's too nervous

Well if i think about it I too always defend too much but only against these char (OS, ZAPPA, TE, SL)

[ajinkris]

He sucked in SBO though bec he's too nervous

Well if i think about it I too always defend too much but only against these char (OS, ZAPPA, TE, SL)

OS, ZA I can see, I'm not too sure about TE and SL for me.

It seems like you want to keep them at a certain distance (TE and SL) till you land a knockdown. That's when you're able to pressure them like crazy. Testament especially - his defensive options are utter crap unless he constantly FDs and pushed you out, giving him enough room for a forward EXE Beast. Even then, you can anticipate it and IAD over it for a CH. Easier said than done, but he's definitely one of the simpler guys to pressure (when you're not getting your ass looped, anyways).

Other characters that I find myself zoning a lot against: ANYONE WITH A DP. SERIOUSLY. FUCK.

[DubiousCurvLoop]

He sucked in SBO though bec he's too nervous

Well if i think about it I too always defend too much but only against these char (OS, ZAPPA, TE, SL)

Yeah, that's something I wouldn't expect from N-O, seeing as he's played in so many SBO's before that. He's been rocking in the small a-cho tournaments they have regularly though.

[Taco]

hey COuld someone give me tips on approaching and DC to 2s loops. For some reason i can't get many reps out of the dc loops. And im have a hard time with axl. Especially on approching him

[ajinkris]

hey COuld someone give me tips on approaching and DC to 2s loops. For some reason i can't get many reps out of the dc loops.

The timing behind Dubious Curve loops is a bit strict. I had this problem when I first started, but the key is to hit the 2S after S.Dubious as early as possible. Most people wait too long after the S.Dubious animation and miss the window of opportunity to hit the ground-sliding opponent. Also, make sure to immediately cancel the 2S into another S.Dubious. Practice practice practice - it'll come eventually.

[Icolo-]

I use Dust Dubious Curve to avoid accidental negative edging.

[Taco]

Cool. Thanks MCR

[Kadius]

Hello Venom forum, it's been a while. I kinda switched my main to Johnny and... eh, I've fallen out of practice. Though, I I wouldn't say I'm terrible with Venom, I am rusty as hell. Three questions. 1.) I have trouble linking 5 HS, Stinger aim, frc, dash in, 2S... etc. Is there any trick to this or is it all distance/dash buffering. 2.) 5S©, 5HS, (s)Carcass Raid... I am terrible at this. Tips? 3.) Does anyone remember the term for manipulating summoned balls into active balls and chaining them? I'm thinking of making a picture guide. Edit: Had to look up C-God's old #R guide. It's called the Mosaic technique (named after the Venom player, you can find some videos of him using it on youtube).

[ajinkris]

Hello Venom forum, it's been a while. I kinda switched my main to Johnny and... eh, I've fallen out of practice. Though, I I wouldn't say I'm terrible with Venom, I am rusty as hell.

Three questions.

1.) I have trouble linking 5 HS, Stinger aim, frc, dash in, 2S... etc. Is there any trick to this or is it all distance/dash buffering.

2.) 5S©, 5HS, (s)Carcass Raid... I am terrible at this. Tips?

3.) Does anyone remember the term for manipulating summoned balls into active balls and chaining them? I'm thinking of making a picture guide. Edit: Had to look up C-God's old #R guide. It's called the Mosaic technique (named after the Venom player, you can find some videos of him using it on youtube).

1) That's actually an old combo that isn't used much anymore. If you hit with 5HS you'll generally want to go into a Dubious Curve setup. However, if you need to kill someone with a ground combo, 5HS can go into Stinger Aim (either version) FRC > dash > 2S > whatever. The key is in the dash buffering (6 FRC 6) of the Stinger Aim. There shouldn't be any problems since connecting with 5HS leaves a short distance to cover after the Stinger Aim FRC to connect your next hit.

2) 5S.c > 5HS > S.Carcass Raid is not a combo that is currently used. If I were to take an educated guess, I would assume that you're asking about 6P > 6HS > S.Carcass Raid (which just happens to be the reason why people decide against playing Venom lol). The timing is difficult at first, but I assure you that once you get it down it'll be cake. The trick is to start charging [3] immediately after you hit 6HS, then hit 9S JUST as Venom's pool stick becomes parallel to the floor (during the 6HS animation). It takes lots and lots of practice, and even then, pros still mess up the combo in real matches quite often.

3) Didn't know that was called the "Mosaic Technique", but that's cool to know.

[ky0n01]

1. I think youre using the H version of stinger aim. Using S stinger aim gives you more window to dash in and connect a combo. And like ajincris said it isn't practical to frc stinger aim unless: a. They'll die b. Pressure c. Guard bar is flashing or almost 2.This combo is quite risky and I've never seen this combo in a match lol. Ending your combos with dubious curve or a knockdown is the best option for venom. 3. Japanese are pretty good with naming moves, Mosaic Technique lol I have a feeling that Mosaic would kick N-O's ass if he still play. Mosaic's venom is just badass, unlike N-O's super safe playing(no one knows which style is better) Just my opinion though, can't judge their strength by watching vids alone.

[Kadius]

Thanks ajinkris & ky0n01. ajinkris, I actually have 6P, 6HS, (s)carcass raid down pat. I was actually asking about using (s) carcass raid off of 5HS because it looks pretty sweet in the corner. Or maybe just in combo videos. ky0n01, that's exactly why I asked about comboing a FRC'd stinger aim. As for Mosaic VS N.O, I too think Mosaic would win. But I imagine it would be close.