[CF] Nine the Phantom Q&A Thread

[Monarch]

 

Quick question about a certain move's property? Can't figure out why you're dropping a certain combo? This is the place to be: you have questions and we have answers. 

[Airk]

How negative is her DP? I haven't seen it punished?

[Monarch]

Glad you brought that up, I meant to point out that it's pretty plus on block: so much so that opponents have made a habit of jumping over it to punish the recovery or simply baiting it by staying out of range, similar to EA's. 

Example 1

Example 2

(There are better examples out there, but part of the reason why I never posted on this before is because I can never find examples of this when I want to, but always when I'm not looking for them)

[Airk]

That seems...kinda insane. o.o  What are the restrictions? I know she needs to have an element stocked, but isn't that "pretty much all the time except when you just finished casting a spell"?

[TD]

Yes and no. There's round start always. There's casting a spell, yes. There is whiffing the dp/getting it back and not gaining momentum back. Using sea moss gate without a spell stocked, and losing momentum.

 

without the dp nine has a very hard time getting out. Her dashes are unorthodox enough to be pseudo-gimmicky escapes, and her ea of course and dp super. 

[Airk]

18 hours ago, TD said:

Yes and no. There's round start always. There's casting a spell, yes. There is whiffing the dp/getting it back and not gaining momentum back. Using sea moss gate without a spell stocked, and losing momentum.

 

without the dp nine has a very hard time getting out. Her dashes are unorthodox enough to be pseudo-gimmicky escapes, and her ea of course and dp super. 

That's... still a pretty strong set of options compared to a lot of the cast.

[TD]

Strong? Absolutely. But it still has weankesses. Always having a spell stocked isn't entirely consistent. It's a little easier than terumi getting 50 heat but the idea is the same. No attacking/poor rune management, lose your dp. Nine just has it better because her neutral game is good.

 

and there's still the fact of not having it being severely punishing for her. People like valk and Carl of whom it is very hard to hit, or kune if he gets that one good hit, for example, will wreck her easily.

[Airk]

Terumi doesn't have any safe reversal options with 50 meter though. :P

I guess the real non-question I am asking is "What about this DP, in combination with this characters' other tools, merits it being plus on block?"   Which is not really a question I expect anyone to be able to answer, because no one here works for ASW.  Thanks for the info on how it works though, that was helpful for my understanding of the character.

[Fortune]

Just curious if the buffing aftereffects from the Flax Nurture DP were fleshed out/listed anywhere

[Monarch]

4 hours ago, Airk said:

Terumi doesn't have any safe reversal options with 50 meter though. :P

I guess the real non-question I am asking is "What about this DP, in combination with this characters' other tools, merits it being plus on block?"   Which is not really a question I expect anyone to be able to answer, because no one here works for ASW.  Thanks for the info on how it works though, that was helpful for my understanding of the character.

If anything, given her tools: it seems unlikely that it should be plus on block to begin with. The only reasonable thing I could suggest is that it wouldn't seem right for a status buff to be.. negative? Kind of reaching but, ASW has made a few questionable design decisions in the past.

 

2 hours ago, Fortune said:

Just curious if the buffing aftereffects from the Flax Nurture DP were fleshed out/listed anywhere

Not yet, and honestly I'm not sure how you would measure it besides training mode grinding/damage comparisons: which we also have no footage of. Maybe one of the Puente Hill Mall peeps could help out with this one?

[TD]

The damage buff from the dp doesn't appear to be outstanding. Sometimes it looks like she does the same amount of damage from the same combo involving the buff.

[Airk]

2 hours ago, TD said:

The damage buff from the dp doesn't appear to be outstanding. Sometimes it looks like she does the same amount of damage from the same combo involving the buff.

Wait, it's also a buff?  That's super random.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

On 2/7/2016 at 8:02 PM, Frost Monarch said:

Glad you brought that up, I meant to point out that it's pretty plus on block: so much so that opponents have made a habit of jumping over it to punish the recovery or simply baiting it by staying out of range, similar to EA's. 

Example 1

Example 2

(There are better examples out there, but part of the reason why I never posted on this before is because I can never find examples of this when I want to, but always when I'm not looking for them)

I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you for proof that it's plus on block. That doesn't sound right. Maybe you meant to say safe on block? That would be closer to what we've seen in gameplay videos so far. Even then, it's hard to confirm that without proper frame data on the move. It's possible the timing to punish is just really tight and can't really be done without proper practice.

[TD]

3 hours ago, Airk said:

Wait, it's also a buff?  That's super random.

Yes depending on the last element used, she will gain that element damage buff for a short time. Green aura surrounds her for wind buff for example. (Automatically gains a buff in OD)

 

thats another thing, buffs don't seem entirely fixed-time based, at least to me. Sometimes it seems to last longer than others, usually it seems to last longer when she's actually attacking, but that could be the constant hitstop. Making Can anyone confirm how long the buffs last?

[Monarch]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 9:39 AM, RurouniLoneWolf said:

I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you for proof that it's plus on block. That doesn't sound right. Maybe you meant to say safe on block? That would be closer to what we've seen in gameplay videos so far. Even then, it's hard to confirm that without proper frame data on the move. It's possible the timing to punish is just really tight and can't really be done without proper practice.

Yes, I meant safe. Citing this example, it appears that Flax is around 0 or -1 in frames as the Nine was CH trying to press a button afterwards. 

The duration of the buff and what effects it is also a mystery (much like a lot of details regarding this move)

[Indigo]

This may seem like an obvious question, but it's hard to find much information on Dustloop these days... what are the startup and ending frames for the invincibility on Nine's teleport dashes? And does it extend if she double teleports?

Also, is there an 'optimal' way to play Nine? I'm fascinated by this characters' arsenal, yet I don't see a lot of diverse play. Lots of Kunzite, meteors, and fairies... like, this character has so many options, and I understand that those are really strong, but she has so much utility I never see... And I get that she has to use up confirms for utility when she could just go for her strong spells, but I dunno, I just figured she'd be a great strategic character, but all I see is BnB setups and stuff... My first thought on her was "wow, she can really mold to a player's playstyle'. Is this a wrong conception?

[RurouniLoneWolf]

On 11/15/2016 at 4:59 PM, Indigo said:

This may seem like an obvious question, but it's hard to find much information on Dustloop these days... what are the startup and ending frames for the invincibility on Nine's teleport dashes? And does it extend if she double teleports?

Also, is there an 'optimal' way to play Nine? I'm fascinated by this characters' arsenal, yet I don't see a lot of diverse play. Lots of Kunzite, meteors, and fairies... like, this character has so many options, and I understand that those are really strong, but she has so much utility I never see... And I get that she has to use up confirms for utility when she could just go for her strong spells, but I dunno, I just figured she'd be a great strategic character, but all I see is BnB setups and stuff... My first thought on her was "wow, she can really mold to a player's playstyle'. Is this a wrong conception?

Don't know the specific numbers for teleport dash. What I do know is neither teleport dash is 1f full invuln. I believe the back teleport dash 1f projectile invuln and the forward dash doesn't get it until frame 5. Not sure about when it ends exactly but visually, about when Nine reappears is when it ends so yes, the invuln will get extended if you do the double teleport.

As for lack of diversity of play, the problem is really that to make the most use of her various spells usually requires a lot of planning and the ability to dynamically assess the situation, which a lot of people might not be capable of so they just go for the cookie cutter Nine instead. If you're looking for an alternative Nine to study, I'd recommend Saki personally. Footage of his Nine is rare now, possibly because he might've switched characterse, but there's still plenty of footage of him from like the first 5-6 months of the game's lifespan. Here's a keeponblaz.in link to find his footage easier
https://keeponblaz.in/?p1=Saki&char1=ph

[Indigo]

9 hours ago, RurouniLoneWolf said:

Don't know the specific numbers for teleport dash. What I do know is neither teleport dash is 1f full invuln. I believe the back teleport dash 1f projectile invuln and the forward dash doesn't get it until frame 5. Not sure about when it ends exactly but visually, about when Nine reappears is when it ends so yes, the invuln will get extended if you do the double teleport.

As for lack of diversity of play, the problem is really that to make the most use of her various spells usually requires a lot of planning and the ability to dynamically assess the situation, which a lot of people might not be capable of so they just go for the cookie cutter Nine instead. If you're looking for an alternative Nine to study, I'd recommend Saki personally. Footage of his Nine is rare now, possibly because he might've switched characterse, but there's still plenty of footage of him from like the first 5-6 months of the game's lifespan. Here's a keeponblaz.in link to find his footage easier
https://keeponblaz.in/?p1=Saki&char1=ph

Thanks for the information. I've been playing her a bit after I posted here, and I'm starting to understand why I see a lot of the same stuff. She does have to opt a lot of good pressure and damage options to get certain spells, and possibly stock them. But it's so fun to me, as I find I'm someone who ends up thinking a lot more in neutral than on the offensive. So it's great to have a character that can produce so many options and get mileage from it. Really liking Saki's gameplay, pretty inspiring to see to see how well they use some of those less common spells.

[Blade]

I have a question overall.

Is rushdown even possible on Nine?  All she has to do is Teleport to the air and fart water on someone's head to reset pressure (or at least that's how it feels).

Plus her lows and overheads have ridiculous range, like you have to take crazy risks just to get inside, and combo confirms are seldom guaranteed.

On top of this she can pull DD reversals out of her hat with all the meter she gets just from wiffs or block.

[Enix V. Nimbus]

Hello everyone.

I started to play Nine and I have a question about her teleport. Is the second teleport input double tap any direction or strictly 22, 66, 44, and 88?

[TD]

Is anyone still alive here?

 

Does anyone still play this slow behemoth of a character? o.0