XDest Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 I didn't say it's impossible. I said it's an extremely difficult match-up. Not one that's 6-4, or laughably 5-5. Most of the things you're talking about end up playing into Arakune's hand. Half of the time when you're evading something Arakune will space correctly to take advantage of that situation. And when your solution to everything is just "IB everything", and not a pure attack solution, usually something is up. If she drives somebody pulling out a cloud, by the time you react the cloud will already be out, and you'll be running right into it. You have to guess beforehand. Meanwhile, Arakune can just do a faster air move instead and beat you out. Maybe a nice CH dive for 4000 damage. j.D is horrible in this match-up because of this fact. Her best way to stop Arakune from putting up a cloud would be to double air dash and j.A. Of course this will net you no damage since you just used up all your jumps, and j.A prorates heavily even if you didn't. If she drives over the bell bug, what's stopping you from simply doing your own anti-air or one of your air attacks, hitting her out of it, and starting a huge combo? Hell, if she does 2D, the dive will even exchange with it. No damage for Tao. Her best option to get damage against Arakune, and it can be foiled quite easily with a move Arakunes do all the time. Yeah, you can backdash out of a move that has high recovery and get good damage. But if it's so risky, a good Arakune player will not let it whiff. It will be blocked or hit, and that strategy will go completely to waste. As well, let's say I guess you'll do that instead of react, and get hit by one of his curse projectiles on the ground during the backdash. Now we get to play the curse game and have our barrier/guard libra raped. You're not saying any ways that Taokaka will actually beat out Arakune's attacks and get damage. That's usually not a good sign since Taokaka gets her best damage on CH obviously. Arakune has an answer for everything Taokaka can do. Taokaka doesn't have an answer for many of Arakune's moves. And saying for a Taokaka player to block something is a horrible idea. Your best idea was IB'ing which a universal element (that Hakumen, Bang and Tager have as well), but cannot be relied on all the time because of it's obvious timing/execution restriction. Therefore, it's not a good match-up. And not one that's close to good while still in Arakune's favour. It's a goddamn bad match-up.
Matt Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Taokaka has an answer for everything but a lock down on curse and curse on block. The only two things that contribute to this is the great guard break ability that the D-bug has and simply put clouds have curse on block, both of which I agree are cheap (and will probably be fixed). Here's the thing though the Arakune vs. Taokaka match is naturally a very close match up and of the few videos I've seen of Arakune vs. Taokaka the Arakune player was forced to use this cheap tactic simply to keep the Taokaka player at bay until they could strategize. If they didn't do this they would be absolutely crushed by the Tao player or it would be a very neck and neck battle. I say it's still a 6-4 match up. The only reason why it seems harder is because it requires more patience and precision.
Danny Schme Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Taokaka has an answer for everything but a lock down on curse and curse on block. Informative..
Ronove Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Taokaka has an answer for everything Really? Enlighten me on this please. Be specific, I'm a Tao player and I'm curious to know about these answers.
Mikachiru Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Really? Enlighten me on this please. Be specific, I'm a Tao player and I'm curious to know about these answers. Taunting.
XDest Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Taokaka has an answer for everything but a lock down on curse and curse on block. How about his massive advantage in the air via dives/large hitboxes, great evasive property on all his movement, and the fact that no matter how Taokaka moves in this match-up she has a good probability of getting cursed? Tips to evade and/or block don't cut it, they're prerequisites. But if there's less attacks that win over other attacks a good amount of the time, and there's no semi-safe/proper way to move around and hit him... there's a problem. She does NOT have an answer for everything. She does NOT have a direct answer to his evasion. She does NOT have a direct answer for his dives or any of his other air attacks. She only has answers against him up close and on the ground. How often is that shit going to happen? You're not posing a very convincing argument. Just a vague one saying "You're wrong and I'm right." That's juvenile. Be specific, provide examples, and give a real explanation. Otherwise, stop posting.
Prototype909 Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 As a Ragna main i'm confused as to how he has a positive matchup against Litchi, but whatever. I'm sure the pros have a higher understanding of the game than me.
Matt Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Use her drive that's a direct answer to his evasion. It's fast enough to catch Arakune on his recovery from all of his evasion moves. Also, take all this stuff to this thread http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6634. You can complain there and no one will argue with you.
Ryd' Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 As a Ragna main i'm confused as to how he has a positive matchup against Litchi, but whatever. I'm sure the pros have a higher understanding of the game than me. His ground pokes have a nasty habit of beating out hers unless you charge into a 6B that's already out or something. His DP is also a lot better than hers; more invincibility, RC'able on block, and will beat Tsubame in a trade.
XDest Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Use her drive that's a direct answer to his evasion. No, it is not. That's an easy way to get cursed for free.
HajinShinobi Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 You're not posing a very convincing argument. Just a vague one saying "You're wrong and I'm right." That's juvenile. Be specific, provide examples, and give a real explanation. Otherwise, stop posting. With this said, we other fellow Tao players are still waiting on a valid point or examples from you Matt.
Matt Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6634
XDest Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 BlazBlue Match-Up Chart Arguing about match-ups Yeah, I believe this goes here just fine
MisoSowee Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Matt why are you continuously posting a link to that thread and I'm only following this because I wanna learn more about match-ups in general...
kousaka Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 lol u guys are all getting worked up over the smallest things.. the top local player here in toronto is a tao player.. and when i play that matchup from beginning to end i rarely get the chance to jump let alone drop a cloud. yeah there are times when i get a curse out and take his entire life bar away with a combo but in high level play there's rarely a chance when tao is not beside you for example: 1) after ib>5a>6b knockdown >> TK cloud isn't safe since they can drive up to you for CH 2) Jumping around is risky, i get hit by the upward drive CH into big damage taunt combos all day =( 3) air dash cancelling > IB jB>6a everytime.. so that leaves you to jump cancel away open to air mixups again Tao's anti air game isn't weak against arakune. Like you listed all the options b4, which was like 5 and although they all have situational uses they're not useless. It's not totally hopeless.
ocdscale Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 lol u guys are all getting worked up over the smallest things.. the top local player here in toronto is a tao player.. and when i play that matchup from beginning to end i rarely get the chance to jump let alone drop a cloud. Without getting into the argument because I play neither Tao nor Arakune past the "I'm pressing buttons" stage, I need to ask this question: Are you at that player's level? If not, then how is this relevant? I mean, Jin has an advantage over Tager for sure, but Mike Z would make my Jin look totally free. You see what I'm saying? If you are on par with the top local in your area, then of course disregard my post.
Matt Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Matt why are you continuously posting a link to that thread and I'm only following this because I wanna learn more about match-ups in general... Because there's so much Arakune hate I thought it would be cleaner to just send it here. Also, for the whole Hakumen vs Arakune match up there's nothing more that I can say beyond: don't destroy the clouds it's hopeless and you need unbelievably good timing to gain control. Once you have control and about 4 magatama it's a lot easier from there. Keeping control is extremely hard though. I'll just PM you some links of some interesting Hakumen strategies. One involves mugen and the spamming of shippuu (surprisingly it actually won one of the matches).
XDest Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 No it isn't. But of course it's quite the uphill battle. As I said, 2D/j.8D generally is the best way in the match-up for Tao to get good damage (and yeah, it can get to 4500+ quite easily), and the best way to get somebody while they're summoning a cloud high up. But that's only if you're at the right angle, and in the right vertical range. If you're lower to the ground when jumping she cannot do that. But all her other jumping moves as well as her 6A are not only very situational, but they cannot be used in a regular manner to combat him. Tao wins the game on the ground usually, I agree to that and said that before. Arakune wins in the air and in terms of special property (the curse, obviously) But I truly believe in terms of evasive property, sheer damage opportunity, and setting things up properly to get damage, Arakune definitely has her beat. Maybe I'll come over to gety one night to watch how that Tao player deals with this character. Because I'm simply not seeing what doesn't make this match-up difficult as hell. I didn't get to see either of the Arakune players nor that Tao player at the last TO tourney unfortunately, although it got a small turnout. It's funny, the Tao players are all going "Yeah, this is definitely a bad match-up." While the Arakunes are going "Nah, it's not that bad." I think it's a beatable but very difficult match-up that is in his favour. I do not believe it's hopeless.
MisoSowee Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 It's not really hate they're all valid points....\
Matt Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Shazam! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcHBwkxyfPk&feature=PlayList&p=AC711FF53326E7C5&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=20. Also, 6:4. Miso: I said I would PM the links to the videos so that you can see for yourself....eventually.
MisoSowee Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 That arakune was pro. also a lot of your points are really vague. I want some true examples and scenarios. Saying "with 4 magatamas it's so much easier" and "you just need unbelievably good timing" really doesn't help. and I feel like "spamming shippu" has its fallacies....
kousaka Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Maybe I'll come over to gety one night to watch how that Tao player deals with this character. Because I'm simply not seeing what doesn't make this match-up difficult as hell. I didn't get to see either of the Arakune players nor that Tao player at the last TO tourney unfortunately, although it got a small turnout. I think it's a beatable but very difficult match-up that is in his favour. I do not believe it's hopeless. I can link you to the T10 tourneys on youtube. I was teamed with said tao player and Zeero the Carl mod when we won the team tourney. Although there isn't any vids of me playing against the tao player, he ocved many teams and players and in there he also took out the other arakune player from sauga. Said tao player also eventually taking singles too. Obviously though everyone's skill level has increased many times over since the tourney as we've have local house gatherings and play weekly at LG
XDest Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Shazam! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcHBwkxyfPk&feature=PlayList&p=AC711FF53326E7C5&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=20. Also, 6:4. Miso: I said I would PM the links to the videos so that you can see for yourself....eventually. That's just an extremely good Tao with a great pressure game. It's very possible, just an uphill battle. A lot of the points I was making were still reinforced by even that video. Although, I'm guessing that arguing over what is only around .5 or 1 match-up point in theory is completely useless, because I think it's closer to 6.5 or 7. Ah well. Like any match-up, if the player is really good, he can overcome these types of obstacles because he's so used to playing against them. Also: Invite me to the house gatherings, please. I need a good amount of offline and ps3 pad practice. I think I got a good bit of that with SoGo, but I never know about any of these things.
Matt Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Then what WERE ALL OF THESE POSTS FOR?! Someone clean this up or something.
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