[CS1] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[Zoogstin]

Your first example suggests that the 3C is hitting first before the 2D. 3C has negative proration, thus it hinders the damage potential of the 2D when it hits. But you get the ground bounce thus you can continue to do a combo. Your second example if you haven't figured it out yet suggests that you're actually just hitting the 3C after the 2D hits. 2D has positive proration, thus it improves the damage of the 3C which is why you notice the damage increase. Now keep in mind that since 3C was the last move you hit them with, you only put them in a knockdown state so you can easily pick them up off the ground and go into a combo.

[Kyle]

2]D[ is a 104% multiplier only in a combo. 2]D[ has a 90% Starting proration value. 3C has a 100% starting proration value. Dear god, Have them guard 2]D[ and break their defense with 3C. The DMG will be much greater after the full combo is finished.

[ZONG_one]

You guys like that new Dio combo?

2B/6B/3C > 2]D[ > j.2C Allecan > land > j.B > j.C > Clap > land > j.2C Allecan > land > j.B > j.C > 623]D[ > j.B > Allegretto.

4.4k METER-LESS.

EDIT- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sPJ98n7mgs#t=3m31s

[Akiro]

Is the first Allecan needed in that combo? Or could we go straight from j.2C into J.B > J.C > Clap > land > j.2C Allecan > land ect

[ZONG_one]

Alle-can is needed. Helps with spacing, Nirvana control, and you don't want to hit the clap too high. and I'm not sure but they might be too high after j.B > j.C > 8D and/or be able to tech before the second Allecan if you don't cancel the first one. The key with his loops and weird stuff that's not on the ground, is to keep them as low in the air as possible.

[Mascarpone]

The only thing i don't like about this combo is that you lose N - O - C positioning... So i suppose the next thing is looking for options to try to pin them down afterwards. Corners help clearly, but mid screen?

[ZONG_one]

I just take the damage aspect and run with it. I'm confident in my ability to set up N-O-C from any block string, as long as they're standing. I mean, 4.4k is just too good to pass up, especially when all I play around here are Bangs that are doing 3.5 with every single combo. And I mean, you still have some oki options with fuoco, volante, etc. And depending on your opponent, resets may be very dangerous, and taking guaranteed damage is a better option. As a CS Carl player, you'll learn to take all the guaranteed damage you can get. EDIT- Also, you're not going to be getting this THAT often. If they can block overheads, you take a primer and continue your N-O-C pressure. 2]D[ is super safe, since it's not Carl who's doing something. And yeah, breaking a primer might not be that exciting for Carl, but it's something.

[Mascarpone]

I have the "just got a stick and good lord i can't even pull of simple stuff" blues at the moment so everything sounds daunting. Relearning months and months of muscular memory is going to be abhorrent. Also I've noticed there has not been allot of action 'round here of late. D: Are we getting to a point where there's not much new or interesting going on?

[DF2K]

We'll just have to wait for more Dio vids I guess.

edit: AutonomousR updated :P

http://www.youtube.com/user/AutonomousR#p/u/10/pF3Rijkp98M

[Kyle]

Guys, If i could play this game. Our thread would be Rockin' like it was in CT days. =(

[Kyle]

Holy DAAAAAAAAAAAMNNN: J.B+C, 22D, 236A, 5B, 8]D[,...

[Zeero]

I sadly don't really play Carl much in CS anymore because I'm tired of chasing people down =_= However I'm still following his vids n updates. And IMO, dealing most dmg from combos is more important than trapping them once you reach a certain level where your opponent knows how to block your mixups and whatnot. Carl has pretty average dmg off without setups and sure everybody by now notices the timeouts. Having the upperhand in life means they'll be doing the chasing and not you, and the more they chase you, the more chances you get to have them just "fall" into the NOC situation.

[Zoogstin]

Holy DAAAAAAAAAAAMNNN:

J.B+C, 22D, 236A, 5B, 8]D[,...

yeah I saw some Carls doing that a while back, Carl is so awesome. See yall at Final Round.

[Irikarul]

To anyone who has played the arcade version: how good/useful is volante?

[Kyle]

To anyone who has played the arcade version: how good/useful is volante?

I currently have the impression it's more of a Match-up strat than a legit offense.

Great for defense tho.

I feel sooo bad about how inactive I am with this game not at my fingertips. =(

Arghghghghghg

[ZONG_one]

To anyone who has played the arcade version: how good/useful is volante?

Use it against people who are zoning you. A taste of their own medicine. It negates most other characters' projectiles, so atleast that helps. Gives you free IAD's sometime, if you let it clear the way for you..

It's more trolling than anything, but it does open a lot of doors for your offense.

IE:

Learn the timing, and when it's going to come, because it has such slow startup.

but...

1.) Volante, vivace. Works as a free crossup. Vivace, Volante hits > 2B > Combo.

2.) Same side, Volante hits/gets blocked. Hit/blockstun gives you time for IAD crossup.

3.) People forget it's coming. Use it from offscreen for random damage. I actually get it to hit from off screen FTW all the time.

Also, like Kyle said, defensively, it's great.

But only if you know how to block.

[feri]

When characters are zoning you with projectiles they can negate volante with a projectile or force you to block (stops nirvana from finishing volante) or hit nirvana.

[ZONG_one]

When characters are zoning you with projectiles they can negate volante with a projectile or force you to block (stops nirvana from finishing volante) or hit nirvana.

This is true. But if you have it out there, it helps.

Don't use it on reaction, make them react to IT.

[feri]

Did I mention (sorry if I have already) 5b CH can combo into itself (means 5b might be positive on block!) Really need some CS frame data.

[ZONG_one]

Did I mention (sorry if I have already)

5b CH can combo into itself (means 5b might be positive on block!)

Really need some CS frame data.

Other people have their frames!

I needz this.

5B + on block means what?

Isn't why IAD cross up is so good?

[feri]

I'm sure 5b having more blockstun helps IAD crossup. But 5b IAD j.2c isnt free (you can jump). What I was implying is that it could extend pressure and OS beating people that jump out (I know 5b > 6b/5c works too). Is also a frame trap. I've also just been trained to really like positive moves. Also there is this... C O N ( [4]a > [1]a ) x n Hilarious pressure/trolling/Is a combo (needs frame data to back it up).

[ZONG_one]

I'm sure 5b having more blockstun helps IAD crossup. But 5b IAD j.2c isnt free (you can jump).

What I was implying is that it could extend pressure and OS beating people that jump out (I know 5b > 6b/5c works too). Is also a frame trap. I've also just been trained to really like positive moves.

Also there is this...

C O N ( [4]a > [1]a ) x n

Hilarious pressure/trolling/Is a combo (needs frame data to back it up).

Oh, trust me, I know it's not free.

I'm getting lost on how 5B is good for anything besides being safe, in regards to a block string. I mean, anything + on block is good and all, but what are it's practical uses?

And ]D[ ([4]A > [1]A) x n seems pretty troll, but is interesting, pressure wise.

And it's probably great for getting throws.

[feri]

Your probably right. Enjoy your trolling.

[ZONG_one]

Your probably right. Enjoy your trolling.

You said something in PM about unprorated j.2C loop being ~5k?

Notation, plz.

Start to finish.

[Zeero]

Not to ruin the party or anything but 5B is -1 on block and very quickly since these will probably be the ones people care most about. 5A -3 5B -1 5C -4 2A - 4 2B +0 6B -2 6C +0 resume your conversations =)