Adelheid Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Critical: We need an accurate list of moves that do not "combo" at what hit count. EX: hit-count > 8 (needs confirmation) 5A, 5B NOT POSSIBLE 2A, 2B NOT POSSIBLE We need to establish this for: 5A, 5B 2A, 2B 2A, 5B 5A, 2B (Does this gatlin?) 5B, 2B 5B, 5C 2B, 5C (Hit-count > 9 confirmed) 6c, 5B J.B, J.C, J.B, 5 What is the situation you are trying for here? I can test this all pretty easily, but I need to make sure I know the situation, because otherwise this isn't going to always be 100% accurate because of course hitstun imparted is not just a measure of a move's level and how many hits are already in the combo, but of a move's level and how many of what hits are already in the combo. So different situations are going to mean different amounts here; 5A > 5B won't even hit 7 hits going on 8 off of 2A 5A 5B 5C (6D) 2A 5A 5B, but it will off of (6D) jC 5B 5C (6D) jC 5A 5B, for instance. Meanwhile, 5B 5C (41236D) 2A 5A 2A 5A 5B will work, even though that's 13 hits going on 14. EDIT: And yeah, 5A 2B gatlings.
Kyle Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 What is the situation you are trying for here? I can test this all pretty easily, but I need to make sure I know the situation, because otherwise this isn't going to always be 100% accurate because of course hitstun imparted is not just a measure of a move's level and how many hits are already in the combo, but of a move's level and how many of what hits are already in the combo. So different situations are going to mean different amounts here; 5A > 5B won't even hit 7 hits going on 8 off of 2A 5A 5B 5C (6D) 2A 5A 5B, but it will off of (6D) jC 5B 5C (6D) jC 5A 5B, for instance. Meanwhile, 5B 5C (41236D) 2A 5A 2A 5A 5B will work, even though that's 13 hits going on 14. EDIT: And yeah, 5A 2B gatlings. This, is exactly what I was going for. THX Stark.
Geminemi Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 J.B, J.C, J.B is GODLIKE against standing opponents. (Tager, Nu, Who else?) Does this work off of 5B only or 5B, 6B? This is what I've gathered. You can use this combo (5B/5B,6B f.jump j.B j.C j.B land 5B etc.) with solo Carl on only Hakumen, Jin, Tager, and Hazama for an extended BNB/gatling. Works off of both 5B and 5B, 6B. With Nirvana pushing the opponent towards Carl in a sandwich situation, you can make the j.B (and therefore the rest of the combo) connect on Lambda, Noel, and Litchi, after both 5B or 5B, 6B. So in short, the combo always works on Hakumen, Jin, Tager, and Hazama, but also on Lambda, Noel, and Litchi when Nirvana is pushing them towards you. I'd appreciate it if someone could confirm all this. I'm not sure about Ragna in particular; I was able to get the first j.B to connect but it wouldn't combo.
Adelheid Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Yeah. If you'll notice, Ragna's standing hit animation is actually a fair bit smaller than his standing animation; his hitbox is adjusted accordingly. You can't jump cancel a hit and connect jB on him because of this, but it will still hit him standing at neutral. This is, of course, not particularly helpful.
Geminemi Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Ah, thanks for the explanation. I thought I was just messing up constantly since I didn't realize how much shorter Ragna becomes in hitstun >_<.
Adelheid Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Oh lawd Against Tager you can do loop jB jC jB twice. Only Tager though! Not sure why it's only Tager, but it's only Tager. Which means you can do stuff like, random sandwich pressure into 6C overhead... Doesn't matter, just hit with 6C to force standing while right next to them, to get 6C (5B 6B jB jC jB)x2 2B 3C 632146C And if that string got you to the corner (which it will from about midscreen), 22D 8D. Fully heals Ada from only having a sliver of her life left if you let the super go all the way through without activating her; if you get to the corner and teleport her in and 8D for knockdown or tech trapping shenanigans she still gets a great deal of it back. And either way you play it, it ends in a rather favorable position for you. The string up to the super gains I think around 32% meter, so as long as you have at least some to begin with (and you really almost certainly will if you're starting this out of sandwich pressure) this should be pretty feasible. Next time I get the chance, I'm gonna record this, because I think it's funny. EDIT: Originally I made mention that you could do this off of Con Fuoco + fully charged 6C for the unblock, but that in fact doesn't work because fully charged 6C has too much knockback; the jC in the second rep will thus whiff. EDIT again, hundreds of millions of hours later: Just testing random stuff, and if you've got good spacing between you and Ada when you get a fatal counter jB, you can go straight to a 2D loop; just hit 2D shortly afterward and there you go. Since there's basically no proration there, and since 2D actually has negative proration, I'm pretty sure this is going to be what gets you the most damage. But, it requires somewhat specific spacing. Not too specific, since the horizontal hitbox on 2D is kinda gigantic, but still. I imagine that getting fatal counter off of 2C would have a similar optimum combo, but that's probably never going to come up since that move is... Not a good poke.
Kyle Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Yeah. If you'll notice, Ragna's standing hit animation is actually a fair bit smaller than his standing animation; his hitbox is adjusted accordingly. You can't jump cancel a hit and connect jB on him because of this, but it will still hit him standing at neutral. This is, of course, not particularly helpful. Fuzzy Guard J.B is what I gather from this. 2C has FatalCounter. 0.o Awesome. I seriously need training mode.
Adelheid Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 623C RC forces standing. I'm pretty sure this isn't actually at all helpful, but eh. I am so psyched to be playing Carl right now. Also, in case it wasn't stated earlier, Laetabilis Cantata's max damage is 800, Fermata's max damage is 900, and Rhapsody of Memories' max damage will never come up.
Adelheid Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Fuzzy Guard J.B is what I gather from this. Insightful statements like this are why you are the mod here. If it wasn't for this just now I'd have never thought to test jB against standing guard for every character; the thought just wouldn't have come up. Some characters have standing guard hitboxes that are actually taller than their normal standing hitboxes. You can hit every character with this fuzzy guard setup except Rachel, Arakune, and Noel. Some chars are much easier to do this on than others thanks to the widths of their hitboxes; you can always get this stuff with Ada forcing them at you, but I suspect from neutral would be pretty hard against lots of chars. But only Rachel, Arakune, and Noel have guard hitboxes low enough for this never to work. Feeling Carl more and more each passing moment
Zoogstin Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 So even though j.B won't hit ragna normally after a 6B, if he happens to block high the j.B will force him to block and thus Carl can still keep onward with his offence? Because of fuzzy guard would Ragna get hit if he crouch blocks between the 6B and j.B?
Kyle Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 So even though j.B won't hit ragna normally after a 6B, if he happens to block high the j.B will force him to block and thus Carl can still keep onward with his offence? Because of fuzzy guard would Ragna get hit if he crouch blocks between the 6B and j.B? 6B doesn't jump cancel on guard. wait... or does it in CS? Use 5B instead. Even if he blocks low J.B wil hit as an overhead. FuzzyGuard- The idea that as a character low blocks their hitbox is actually as big as their standing sprite on the firsth hit they actually crouch for. So, 5B, (Ragna standing), J.B (Ragna crouch), should hit as an overhead. Only problem is being able to pickup off of a J.B at that height with Ragna crouching in hitstun.... J.B, J.C maybe. OH OH 5B, J.B, 236236D. Evil <-- THX for the compliment Stark. =) If he dos properly guard it, we might be able to do, 5B, J.B, Jump Cancel J.2C for a Cross-up.
Adelheid Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 I'm pretty sure you can't jc 6B on block, because that would be entirely too cool and I don't think Carl is that improved. But I'm also pretty sure it doesn't matter, because 6B is a low already, so good luck using that for a fuzzy guard setup.
Kyle Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Jump Loop (6B, J.B, J.C, J.B)x2 Is great in the corner. No robot needed. Can NOT JumpCancel 6B on block in CS. <--- Confirmed
Adelheid Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 Ah, works on more people in the corner? Makes sense. Yeah it does seem pretty classy.
Adelheid Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 They found a version of the airthrowbreak-unblock on Tager! It gives 50% and cost 50% LOLOLOLOLOLOL http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=AutonomousR#p/u/13/Xvp86hXnR4w http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=AutonomousR#p/u/0/nKzWyk33LxE So, thinking about it. In BlazBlue, you don't get your air options back after teching or breaking an air throw. If you're kinda near a corner, and you get a combo on someone who's already used their air dash or double jump (Trying to escape corner pressure?), you should be able to go into this on anyone. Except I guess Rachel, Hakumen, and Bang. Seriously, fatal counter jB would lead into this super easily. This is just speculation, and it's not very practical, but...
mynus Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 So, thinking about it. In BlazBlue, you don't get your air options back after teching or breaking an air throw. If you're kinda near a corner, and you get a combo on someone who's already used their air dash or double jump (Trying to escape corner pressure?), you should be able to go into this on anyone. Except I guess Rachel, Hakumen, and Bang. Seriously, fatal counter jB would lead into this super easily. This is just speculation, and it's not very practical, but... will check tonite.
soujiro seta Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 2C is a fatal counter, I'll try and explore the possibilities with this. (is it a good AA? who knows) You cant jc 6B on block When opponent is standing, you can link j5B FC into gear super, it does 2751 damage. Didn't try j5B FC into gear when opponent is in the air just yet. Although the timer for carl's astral starts at 10, it's really only 5 seconds. It comes out really really fast, and is 100% practical. Assuming Nivana is in the middle, It almost cover's the entire screen with just a small patch on both ends of the screen left. If you guys need me to test stuff out just ask. EDIT The hop allegretto is pretty nice. You have to input it fast though. Like right after you input 66 a fraction of a second later you input 214C.
Zoogstin Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 I'm embarrassed to ask this but what is the input for Carl's astral. I never took the time to use it.
soujiro seta Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 I'm embarrassed to ask this but what is the input for Carl's astral. I never took the time to use it. hahaha. Don't worry, when I was trying to astral I was like "How the heck do you do his astral". IIRC it's 64641236D
Mascarpone Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Yeah that's it. i remember it because it's an input i always botch.
soujiro seta Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 CS Carl is def 1000X more fun to play than CT carl. Hakumen's 4C and jump ?C are going to be carl's bane though. I mean it completely shuts carl and nirvana down, it's like there's nothing you can do. He can spam it all day. Hakumen vs Carl matches have the potential to time out everytime.
papaya93 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 How cant I perform this combo: { 2A 5A 5B [D] C 6]D[ }x3 ?? The first turn was ok but when i do 2A 5A, i cant follow up with 5B and the combo was broken @@... However if i remove 2A from the first turn i actually can do the 2A 5A 5B in the second turn @@ Can anyone help me plz @@
Adelheid Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Most practical use I've found for Carl's Astral is to set it up by teleporting Ada in with a backwards IAD to the corner, having her Astral immediately; by camping in the corner, the opponent can't get far enough away from it, and you can Barrier their attacks to force them into it. Or if they don't attack, push them in with your own attacks. Or burst them in, if you have both your bursts. Papaya: 5A 5B doesn't connect the second time in that string, as I outlined previously. It's not a real combo; you can't do it because it doesn't work. And yeah, Hakumen's a dick. The best person in my scene played Hakumen in CT, and none of us could really beat him (Although, Veteru could generally win when it came down to it in tourneys, even though casuals were a different matter)... And he still plays Hakumen in CS, where he's so much better...
papaya93 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 oh, is that it... However, can i do that in CT because i see that combo in a CT tutorial vid.
JG Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 oh, is that it... However, can i do that in CT because i see that combo in a CT tutorial vid. Yeah... but this is the CS topic ^^. I was practicing some of kyle combos on the corner, damn they are hard. I used to play eddie on GG ( i can perform nice combos with him xD ), but this way of control the muppet feel so odd. Oh well....The only thing i want is that some jap dude find some combo that can deal atleast 50% of life Anyway seem to be a fun char, but really need some time to get the timming of the muppet attack. Any good tip for perform dash allegreto? I miss good poking range....
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