General Johnny Questions

[Mitsurugi]

MSF ? You mean Mist Finer low (also noted MFL, 236S, S-MF, MF-S and maybe others) ?

Can't watch Youtube videos right now butwill take a wild guess. As you described it, it seems that :

1. is a MF-K(2), meaning level 2 mid Mist Finer, input is 236K.

This "ground slide" effect is level 2 mid MF only. You won't have it on a level 1 or a level 3.

2. is a MF-S(2), meaning level 2 low Mist Finer, input is 236S.

The "vacuum" effect (the opponent being launched towards you) is level 2 specific.

Lv 1 causes knockdown.

Lv 3 causes multiple low-hits.

The only multi hits Mist Finers are the level 3.

When you perform a MF, no matter if it lands, whiffs or is blocked, your level goes back to 1. Hence, if you do MF-K(2), coin, MF, this last will be a lv2, since after the first MF-K(2), level goes back to 1 but since the coin hit, it increases to 2 again.

Again, be sure to check this link :

http://dustloop.com/data/ac/johnny.html

This frame data shows all of JO's moves, including frame stuff (may be too complicated at first) but also lists the property of each one.

4r5 just wrote an interesting Quick AC Johnny Newb Guide, have a look there.

Don't overlook the other stickies too !

[Keizion]

Excuse my notation ignorance lol, late for class+sick+nub=bad notation. So the level properties of a MF are the same no matter whether it's high, mid or low, e.g I get the vacuum effect if i hit with lvl 2 MFM? I was watching CrazyDazed Divine Blade combo tutorial and wondering if those are useable in AC as well, because it looks like fun stuff to use. Thanx in advanced for the help.

[faultydefense]

Hitting them with 1 coin will cause all mist finer attacks to go to level 2, with another coin all mist finer attacks will go to level 3. HOWEVER, each mist finer attack has different properties level one P (high) - simply knock the enemy back K (mid) - knock back S (low) - trip/knock down level two - P - Will cause the enemy to bounce off the wall and back towards you, they can't tech for a very long time K - Will cause the enemy to slide along the ground for a long time S - Will cause the vacuum effect and the enemy will be pulled up and towards you level three P - Aims multiple attacks high and mid, the enemy then bounces up and falls nearby usually allowing for a combo as they cannot tech from these attacks K - Aims attacks high, mid, and low. Similar properties to "P level 3" but it knocks you further back and is harder to follow up especially if this was thrown later in a combo S - Aims attacks low then mid, finishes as a knockdown most divine blade combos no longer work as the attack doesn't float the enemy anymore...yet substitute divine blade for Killer Joker and you'll get similar results to what you're looking for

[burningvigor]

theres no point to do the divine blade combos at all now. KJ is way easier and looks better. And tons more easier to get 1 hits with it.

[Keizion]

Got ya. thanx for the clarification now it's time to go home and put it to use

[EtherFang777]

Well, firstly, I wanted to ask just what exactly are the commands for johnny's instant 124S and 326S? Is it just 1247S and 3269S or is there more to it? Secondly, I'm having trouble hitting the FRCs on his 124 and 326. For the veteran johnny players: Is there something you look for when timing the FRCs for these moves? Like what he says or do you time it by the animation or is it just practice practice practice until it becomes instinct? Past that, what exactly are the staples to being a master johnny player? I'm pretty good with the mist cancel now but just what are all the moves that johnny can mist cancel out of?

[burningvigor]

anything that can be special canceled can be mistcanceled lol.. soo all his ground moves asides from down HS or standing D. How i wish you could cancel that ;/ 214 i assume you mean air Killer joker thing. It seems to be right before the blade effect reaches its longest point. as for divine blade 236 in the air i assume is what you mean.. its like right when he tosses it out his hand. The animation between his arm held out to the side and extended down throwing the weird thing. oh yeah turn on input in training and do the move. The flash on the bar is when the frc point is. For some reason I cant get the timing when looking at the input lol... but i get it when im just playing normally. I say just keep practicing and eventually the feeling will become natural.

[EtherFang777]

anything that can be special canceled can be mistcanceled lol.. soo all his ground moves asides from down HS or standing D. How i wish you could cancel that ;/

214 i assume you mean air Killer joker thing. It seems to be right before the blade effect reaches its longest point. as for divine blade 236 in the air i assume is what you mean.. its like right when he tosses it out his hand. The animation between his arm held out to the side and extended down throwing the weird thing.

oh yeah turn on input in training and do the move. The flash on the bar is when the frc point is. For some reason I cant get the timing when looking at the input lol... but i get it when im just playing normally. I say just keep practicing and eventually the feeling will become natural.

Cool,thanks. Now, about the instant commands, do you know what those are? The 124S is the one where he jumps immediately from standing position and does that air mist finer. The 326S is the divine blade I think its called. What are the commands for those 2 to do them instantly from the ground like a ground ensenga,do you know?

[4r5]

what exactly are the staples to being a master johnny player?

I'm still working on that. I'll tell you when I get there.

oh yeah turn on input in training and do the move. The flash on the bar is when the frc point is. For some reason I cant get the timing when looking at the input lol... but i get it when im just playing normally. I say just keep practicing and eventually the feeling will become natural.

The flash of white is the actual FRC point. A blue flash follows the white flash. The blue flash is not the FRC point, it's just there to give you reference of where the point is.

What are the commands for those 2 to do them instantly from the ground like a ground ensenga,do you know?

I do 2147S and 2369S to TK Killer Joker and Divine Blade.

[DumJumJimmyWum]

a couple of things i would like to add. 1) lvl 1 MF-P on CH also has knockdown property AND is much faster startup and recovery then all the other lvl 1 MF moves (so as an AA, it's pretty good at certain ranges as a preemptive strike) Also, in the corner, even if it's not CH it puts them in a bad position. Could someone else explain that to me? This is the reason you sometimes see "fake" combos where the JO player will SJ jS>Ensnega after the MF-P if they decide not to tech. I know the the other two options are air throw and sj.D, but I'm not exactly sure how you set them up. Do you dash first and then SJ backwards or is this char specific? 2)the ORIGINAL DB combos are useless now, but DB in certain combos is not entirely useless. In certain cases where you can't 1-hit Ensenga, it's good for knockdown. just to avoid confusion for newbs. 3)As far as I know, the only time you would use tkDB is after Double Hop(spaced right into tricking them into thinking your are going to throw), and then TK DB. Bleed does this quite a bit. Someone else care to comment on tkDB?

[EtherFang777]

I'm still working on that. I'll tell you when I get there.

The flash of white is the actual FRC point. A blue flash follows the white flash. The blue flash is not the FRC point, it's just there to give you reference of where the point is.

I do 2147S and 2369S to TK Killer Joker and Divine Blade.

Oh,really? You can do 2147S and 2369S and they work?Thats cool. Also, did they change something from slash and X2 with Johnny's ensenga? Before you could do 412369HS and do the instant ensenga, but now I've noticed that it HAS TO BE 4123698HS or it wont work.

Also, what's this I hear about a mist finer stance jackhound is better than a neutral jackhound? Whats a neutral jackhound and how do you do the mist finer jackhound?

One more thing: When you do a successful 214S FRC do you have to press 69 directional on the pad to keep the combo going or can you just hit buttons from where you FRCed?

[4r5]

They didn't do anything to Ensenga. Perhaps you lost your previous timing, then learned a new timing. Or maybe you have gotten faster, and thus, had to learn a new timing/method. Regular JackHound is 214D. A Mist Stance JackHound is also 214D. The difference is the context of when you do it. If you do 214D while you are in Mist Stance, 236+Hold Punch (or Kick, or Slash), then you get a Mist Stance JackHound. Mist Stance Dash Jackhound is the same thing, except you do 214D while In the middle of a Mist Stance Dash. MSJH starts up faster, causes a stronger stagger, and has more air untech time. Likewise, MSDJH is even faster, an even stronger stagger, and more air untech time. Are you talking about Aerial Killer Joker? You don't need to 69 to jump or airdash after a KJ(frc), just tap up or tap forward twice. Now, whether you jump, airdash, or attack after KJ(frc) depends on the combo. Usual follow ups after a KJ(frc) are: S>j.S-HS-D>Ensenga; HS>DB; ad.K-S-D>Ensenga. With some variations here and there.

[EtherFang777]

They didn't do anything to Ensenga. Perhaps you lost your previous timing, then learned a new timing. Or maybe you have gotten faster, and thus, had to learn a new timing/method.

Regular JackHound is 214D. A Mist Stance JackHound is also 214D. The difference is the context of when you do it. If you do 214D while you are in Mist Stance, 236+Hold Punch (or Kick, or Slash), then you get a Mist Stance JackHound. Mist Stance Dash Jackhound is the same thing, except you do 214D while In the middle of a Mist Stance Dash. MSJH starts up faster, causes a stronger stagger, and has more air untech time. Likewise, MSDJH is even faster, an even stronger stagger, and more air untech time.

Are you talking about Aerial Killer Joker? You don't need to 69 to jump or airdash after a KJ(frc), just tap up or tap forward twice. Now, whether you jump, airdash, or attack after KJ(frc) depends on the combo. Usual follow ups after a KJ(frc) are: S>j.S-HS-D>Ensenga; HS>DB; ad.K-S-D>Ensenga. With some variations here and there.

I see. So you can do a jackhound during a mist finer dash (that's the flash step looking thing,right?) by doing 214D? Interesting.

Yeah, I have a general question about air combos. I've been winging it for quite some time and I really wanna get a solid opinion on this: When you knock someone into the air,regardless of how (excluding dust) you need to press up diagonally on the analog stick to start hitting them,yes? And then, to continue the combo with a second jump, do you need to press only up, only forward, or is it again another 69 directional with the combo buttons? Also, after the Aerial Killer Joker (I dunno what it's called, the mist finer in the air) is FRCed, you only press up or forward twice? You dont have to press diagonal upward like with all the other combos?

[burningvigor]

:d you need to watch some vids. Im planning on a huge johnny combo tutorial(basic damage tons of 1 hit ekasu on each char). Maybe i can just scrap some stuff I have right now and show you how johnny combos work.

[faultydefense]

Okay, very general question... When do I jackhound? What am i looking for.

[burningvigor]

throw, mistfiner level 3 p version, throw a coin immediatly so they fall on it, mist stance jackhound note:Get a knockdown / level 2 / and a free mist on them k,hs mist finer k level 2 in corner, throw a coin or 2, jackhound, mist k,hs mist finer k level 2 in corner, dash, foward hs jackhound, standing S,coin , airthrow k,hs jackhound, jackhound return k,hs mist stance jackhound, then do anything like throw or trip to coin k,s,trip mist stance jackhound, depending on character weight get a coin on them before they hit the floor Heres a fun one.. if you manage to get a far S on a crouching opponent.. do forward HS, mist dash jackhound, far s forward HS , mist dash jackhound. :o good damage there are otheres but that should give you a good general idea. Its great to use when you have only a level 1 mist finer. Can go through projectiles if timed aswell.

[faultydefense]

Thanks for thne combos, they do help, but i was wondering if there were points to use it as a stand-alone move. like is there points i need to watch for like as in they left themselves at a position to do it, im not sure like what projectiles it will and wont go through, and a lot of times when i try to throw it out i'll eat a counterhit on start-up or is there not really a point in johnny's game to use JH outside of pre-started combo

[4r5]

Outside of combos, if you got 25% you're not particularly fond of, then just look for whenever your opponent can't block, like if they whiff a move, or during the startup of their projectile or whatever. There are some specific situations. Like if Testament has a wall of trees and nets and he does something like EXE beast, you can JH him before the EXE hits. If Dizzy uses a block string that pushes you too far for your normals to hit, then cancels it into a summon, you can tag her. A few shenanigans I'm fond of doing. Catching people's backdash with a JH. Walking up against a downed body, then meaty a JH through their reversal throw/OD/DP/whatever. Chipping people with JH; from such a long distance, people sometimes aren't ready to have to FD block something from Johnny. JH will go through anything, including projectiles, provided you get past the startup of the move; JH=13, MSJH=6, MSDJH=3. Also know that during the startup of a regular JH your hitbox widens.

[EtherFang777]

:d you need to watch some vids. Im planning on a huge johnny combo tutorial(basic damage tons of 1 hit ekasu on each char). Maybe i can just scrap some stuff I have right now and show you how johnny combos work.

That'd be really nice. I've been watching lots of vids, but my problem is that most combos past 6 or 7 hits with johnny require perfect FRC timing, which I dont yet have. Although I've been practicing and I've gotten down his mist finer L2 FRC timings. It's the 2 staple moves, the killer joker and divine blade who's timings I need to get down. Past that, I'm gunna need to just get battle practice(like when enemies hit back, now I've just been ****ing around in training and just practicing technique)

It'd be really nice if you posted some vids, I'd love to see really skilled johnny players in action

[4r5]

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3018

Oh, and don't worry about knowing the FRC timing on his Mist Finers.

[EtherFang777]

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3018

Oh, and don't worry about knowing the FRC timing on his Mist Finers.

Yeah, seems kinda trivial, I mean....it's not as if Johnny's mist finer is slow that it needs an FRC. I mean, I wouldnt even know what to do after FRCing it, and it'd be a waste of 1/4 tension.

[JackHound PNM]

Hi. =) First, I'd like to say thanks for taking a moment to read this. I'll start with a little about me, so you can get an idea of what you're working with...The main draw that has brought me to post here is the mass appeal of Guilty Gear. My friends and I have played casually since the original XX was released, and we have always considered ourselves "ok" for casual players. I know, though, that that's probably not the case. I know that because I am a very good Smash Bros. player, and I understand the common opinion on that game's casual players. People think they're alright until they meet someone who can play at an advanced level. They get whipped righteously, so badly that they don't even understand what's really being done to them. SHFFL, WD, Pillar, Meteorcancel, whatever. It was all gibberish to me at one point. Now, here's where this applies to GG....I want to pull a fast one on my friends. This game deserves some serious attention. If I practice a while and get terribly good, they'll be inspired to follow suit and we can really begin to play. But, I need a hand...I've looked into it a bit, and this game is very deep and challenging to learn from a casual player's pickup. I need to learn the language that you guys use for combos and the like, and I will do that, but right now I'm asking for a bit of Johnny specific stuff. Homework, if you will. What are the basic things I ought to know to start overcoming his apparently steep learning curve? What are things I can sit in Training mode and practice until I can apply them ingame? What are things that will provide immediate improvement to my game and give me an edge to learn with? I know this is (sort of) long, and I apologize for that, but I wanted you to realize I'm a bit serious about getting good. =) So, maybe, someone will take a moment to gimmie a hand. It'd be appreciated. Thanks, PNM.

[4r5]

Ok, not to discourage anyone but we can't have every new user create their own individual advice thread. I'm going to be merge these into the General Johnny Questions thread and I ask others to post their general questions/johnny-help in this thread.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3017

If anyone has a more specific question (like for example, How should I spend my meter? or What method do you use to tk off jc-able moves?) then feel free to create a new thread, assuming there isn't one already.

[JackHound PNM]

S'fine with me. Sorry I was a bit ignorant, I'm new here, so I wasn't sure how things work. Just saw a few threads like mine. I'll check here for answers. Sorry, again.

[4r5]

Don't worry about.

What are things I can sit in Training mode and practice

Mist Cancel, all three levels and off of different normals.

FRCs, particularly air KJ and air DB.

mixups and setups

combos