General Johnny Questions

[Killerwatt]

The KJ in KJT is different from a standalone KJ. The KJ in KJT does not reset your jump option, so you are forced to JI it for both mixup, and regular combo purposes.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll get to work on mastering JI asap.

[qwerty]

so i've been wondering, has anyone actually found a use for frc'ing level 2 mist finers?

[10stars]

so i've been wondering, has anyone actually found a use for frc'ing level 2 mist finers?

it can increase damage on bnbs by about 20 or so on heavier characters.

For instance, against Jam Ino Bridget Baiken and the other lighter characters, after a l2lmf, you can j.S > dj.S > dj.H > kj frc > dj.s > tj.s > tj.hs > d > ensenga. However, against heavier characters like slayer you have to l2lmf > j.k because if you do j.s it wont link. Frc the mist finer and you can j.S though. As far as high and mid mist finer frcs, hell no, havent found a use yet. Someone used the mid mist finer frc in a combo video, but im pretty sure it wasnt worth the damage and it didnt give some great setup. And since l2 mist finers are safe anyway i dont see a use for the frcs other than the low one.

[Killerwatt]

I once saw BLEED FRC a whiffed lvl2 MF mid...it seemed to be a moot point though, since lvl2's are generally safe on wiff (could be wrong). Other than that I've never known of any use for them. I'll take your suggestion into account though 10stars; once I get better at hitconfirming my lvl2s because having to hitconfirm and FRC seem a bit daunting to me.

[10stars]

I once saw BLEED FRC a whiffed lvl2 MF mid...it seemed to be a moot point though, since lvl2's are generally safe on wiff (could be wrong). Other than that I've never known of any use for them. I'll take your suggestion into account though 10stars; once I get better at hitconfirming my lvl2s because having to hitconfirm and FRC seem a bit daunting to me.

No no, i wont steer you wrong, the option of the damage is there with the l2lmf frc, but i NEVER use it, its simply not worth it to me. And even on whiff l2mfs do seem pretty safe, unless like, you throw a low one while they were jumping in or something.

Lets look at the damage though:

Slayer->

Extended BnB

5k > 5h > l2lmf > j.k > j.s > dj.s > dj.h > kj frc > dj.s > tj.s > tj.h > tj.d > ensenga (213)

Lets take out the KJ Frc ^

Basic BnB

5k > 5h > l2lmf > j.k > j.s > dj.s > dj.h > dj.d > ensenga (192)

Lets add the KJ frc back, and add the l2lmf frc ->

L2mf frc extended

5k > 5h > l2lmf frc > j.s > dj.s > dj.h > kj frc > dj.s > tj.s > tj.h > tj.d > ensenga (223)

Lets remove the KJ frc from the l2lmf frc combo ->

l2mf frc basic

5k > 5h > l2lmf frc > j.s > dj.s > dj.h > dj.d > ensenga (193)

So right there is all the damage set out. Pretty much, the regular bnb does 192 without a kj, and with a kj it does 213. The bnb with the l2mf frc does 193 without a kj (one extra point) and 223 with a kj frc.

So you either

A: reduce your damage output if you dont add the KJ frc (since you actually lose damage if you dont add the KJ frc to the l2mf FRC combos)

B: gain a small damage increase at the cost of 50% tension instead of 25%.

If you want to spend 50% tension on a bnb for a small damage increase, do the 5k[JI] > 5h > kjt combos:

Slayer still:

The better combo

5k[ji] > 5h > kjt > kj frc > j.s > dj.s > dj.h > kj frc > dj.s > tj.s > tj.h > tj.d > ensenga (217)

This is 6 less damage than the l2lmf frc combo, and you KEEP your level 2 mist finer.

Overall, l2mf frcs are garbage, theres the damage set before you. I guess its worth it for that situation where 6 damage will kill someone. But if you're going to spend 50% in most situations, the KJT bnb is a better option, high damage and keep that level so you're still a threat.

[qwerty]

snip

insightful. glad to hear i haven't been missing out on much.

though i still can't help but wonder what possible uses the high and mid mist finer's frc points could be used for. i guess it's just something theory fighters will throw around for a bit and maybe come up with something useful. or maybe not.

[10stars]

insightful. glad to hear i haven't been missing out on much.

though i still can't help but wonder what possible uses the high and mid mist finer's frc points could be used for. i guess it's just something theory fighters will throw around for a bit and maybe come up with something useful. or maybe not.

well i mean, the mid mist finer frc isnt useful in the corner, since you have all of your options anyway, your slowest move (6h) can land off of the slide easily without the frc. Even with a dash, a 6h can still land (10 frame dash, cancel first recovery into 6h - 28 framesish)

Then at mid screen if you want to pick up some damage off of a mmf2, you can KJT > KJ frc land 5©S > combo. In the situations that you're too far away from the kj to hit, frcing the mmf BARELY allows you enough time to get the kjt > kj off, i think its a situational damage increase, but imo still not worth it.

The high mist finer frc can work two ways, but its pretty much the same as the low mist finer frc if you're using it in combos (please dont use hmf after 2ds and stuff, mist instead for higher damage)

But, just for theory lets say you're fighting Slayer or someone that isnt a lightweight, you do lets say 5k > 2d > hmf2. Your followup from here against slayer is either dash > 5©S, 6h, or j.K. 5©S is better with KJ frc, and 6h is better if you dont have the frc so ill show both.

Regular extended hmf

5k > 2d > hmf2 > dash 5©S > j.k > j.s > dj.s > dj.h > kj frc > dj.s > tj.s > tj.h > tj.d > ensenga (192)

Regular No KJ Frc

There may be a higher damage combo than this sitting around, but this is what im seeing on Slayer, and since i dont 2d hmf unless its an enkasu / recoin, i cant say much for damage anyway)

5k > 2d > hmf2 > 6H > j.S > dj.s > ensenga (178)

Now with the Hmf FRC however, you dont have to do a ground attack and jump install it to get the highest damage:

HMF frc + KJ frc

5k > 2d > hmf frc > j.s > dj.s > dj.h > kj frc > dj.s > tj.s > tj.h > tj.d > ensenga (207)

HMF Frc regular

5k > 2d > hmf frc > j.s > dj.s > dj.h > dj.d > ensenga (180)

In the situation that you're using l2mf as an anti air however, since the opponent is already elevated, you dont need to frc the hmf in order to land a j.s aka ->

Anti air hmf

hmf2 > j.s > dj.s > dj.h > kjfrc > dj.s > tj.s > tj.h > tj.d > ensenga (223)

Yeah so uhm. If you're comboing off of 2d into hmf (DONT DO IT MANG, DONT DOOO ITT MIST INSTEAD!) you can get a little extra damage with the hmf frc. But if you're using the hmf as an anti air, and theyre even so slightly off the ground when it connects, you can do the same combo regardless of the frc.

This is what im seeing after experimenting at least. Its a slight damage increase in a combo that you shouldnt use. If instead you mist into a meaty 3h > lmf2 combo, you'll get much more damage out of it.

Maybe 4r5 has some information he can throw in on this, but as of right now im at the conclusion that the frcs on l2mfs are garbage.

[K2]

Guys, i need some help m(_ _)m ty Problem 1 i am havning toruble giving pressure to my opponent they can always jump or poke me after my mc>dash>attack hope u know wt i am tlaking about.... wt are some anti pokes and after which attack i should expect a jump away? Problem 2 any good mc pressure string? i saw this one from 10star's youtube 3hs>mc>6k>mc>6hs>mc>hs>mc>66 2d ppl jump away from the 2d, but is the must solid pressure string i gain for now usually i just add a coin so i have enough time to dash forward and do a 2s is there something specific where i can use it to anti poke and anti jump/air throw bait out? Problem 3 my corner TK ensenga is predictable, b/c of the range ensenga can actually hit requires a distance, ppl are prepared to block high, wt can i do other then risking my low MFLv2 Problem 4 's slide is making me mad when i try to rush him, my 2s works well on him, but not all the time, i don't underatnd the timing Problem 5 throw combo for throw>jkps>jc>jsh>KJ frc>66 jksd>1 hit ensenga my frc>66>jk is not hitting, is it not suppose to hit , or am i doing the wrong combo on him? thank you ! ftw

[4r5]

There is no 'good' pressure string. You tailor your strings to work against what you think your opponent is planning to do. If you aren't sure, then it's better to not commit yourself to anything risky and just play safe. Amongst all the Robo-Ky's I've ever fought, I've never had a problem with Robo-Ky's 2K interrupting my offense. Maybe you're trying to operating too close? Give us a little more details. Get the airdash out fast, and get the kick out fast. Trying doing 6FRC6 (like you're playing I-no), rather then FRC66.

[10stars]

As far as reliable pressure, you really do need to use coins in your strings to make them hesitate unless you're at level 3. Example: 5h > mc > 5h > mc > dash > 2d > mc > 5h > mc > 6h In this string normally by the first dash, theyll jump out. However if you change it > 5h > mc > 5h > coin > dash > 3h > mc > 5h > coin > mc > 5h > mc > 2d blah blah They see a coin the first time then hesitate before the jump, allowing an extra 40 points to be racked up on the guard bar. Johnnys pressure is really freestyle, so you have to change guessing what they want to do. If you think theyre going to jump, 5h, if you're kinda far back and think theyre getting ready to strike back during your forward dash, 6h etc etc. As far as anti airs it needs to be specific, if they 8 jump wait for you to whiff then dash, throw a high mist finer, its a pretty safe anti air. If its a character with a lower jump such as HOS, and you're spaced a little farther back, 5h can be a decent anti air. If theyre simply jumping and trying to attack on the way down, 6k can be useful in SOME situations. If theyre just looking to get out of the pressure by iading, 8 jump and throw them back into the corner for a free coin / mist / 5k > mmf2 loop. A good way to make your tk ensenga a little less predictable is to JC moves into it, it makes it easier to hit and is less expected, examples: 5k > JC > ensenga 5©S > JC > ensenga 6h > JC > ensenga 5k > 5©S > JC > ensenga Coining into it is also a nice change, most people tend to expect dashes after johnnys coins, throwing the overhead can make someone hesitate the next time around. Ill probably end up making Robo my next video for specifics, theres going to be a reference to his throw knockdowns in it so you can see it and possibly get a better visual on it. Edit: i think testaments next actually, havent decided yet. As for throw combos > corner enkasu is throw > j.k > j.s > j.d > enkasu Mid screen kj frc enkasu: throw > j.k > j.p > j.s > dj.s > dj.h > kj frc ad > j.k > j.s > j.d > enkasu

[Kadius]

Does anyone know if Johnny's dash puts him into an airborne state? I was air thrown out of a dash vs the computer a while back. IIRC, it was early/mid dash.

[JOFan]

aye mate. it does and thats how u can go over stuff like pot's slidehead.

[Kadius]

So what's everyone's opinion on using Slash Back? The more I use it, the more essential it seems to help Johnny get the upper hand. Versus certain moves, it can net you a nice CH combo. The kicker is, if you can IB something you can SB it, I guarantee you. I have mainly been using it against guard specials (I.E: Fuujin, Dubious Curve) You can actually begin holding S or HS when you first enter block stun and then tap the other at the correct moment (the time you'd normally IB)

[4r5]

If you can do it, go for it. Though I wouldn't say SB is as easy as IB. Not to mention the penalty for missing a SB can be much more severe then an IB. An interesting quirk: during the startup of airdashes, when you can't guard or FD, you can SB.

[Killerwatt]

I can SB certain moves in training mode easy enough; SBing in a live match though is a different story. Most times I'm too conservative in my defense to even think about risking a SB. I have, (once though) SBed the second hit of a Sol's Tyrant Rave and countered with the Johnny Special. It felt manly.

[its iaijutsu]

I have, (once though) SBed the second hit of a Sol's Tyrant Rave and countered with the Johnny Special. It felt manly.

i suck at SB but i love IB..i'll have to practice a lot more in order to get that manly feeling..haha

[Kadius]

Two questions:

Do we have a MC links guide in a table(?) format anywhere?

And do any of you know how CHs affect Johnny's MC window? I've been reading this and can't really figure out how many extra frames he gets off of them. I'm just curious how many frames total he gets off of certain CHs.

[4r5]

I think I have it in one of the stickies I also think my math is off by a number or two, or the numbers might need to be shifted over a column or row. i forget, I just remember something being wrong with it. I'll look over it again, after my finals. in the mean time, you can check out the charts only section of DL's guide, and along with the framedata, and figure it out yourself.

[ZeekTheSweet]

I'm sure someone has already answered this question or its an extremely obvious answer but, can someone tell WHY johnny is bottom on the teir list?

[10stars]

He has the worse matchups in the game. He's weak in alot of areas where alot of characters aren't, there's alot to cover on why he's low tier.

[qwerty]

he's just generally shortchanged across the board; his only real strengths come from his situational damage, decent normals and unblockables. his biggest weaknesses (imo) are that he has to choose between damage and knockdown (and in many cases for either one needs to spend at least 25% meter) and that he has no real mixups for his ground game (one standing 28 frame overhead and tk ensenga? uhhh....).

[10stars]

Pretty much what qwerty said. Johnny's the high risk moderate reward character.

[ilikeusingdizzy]

Kinda been quiet around here lately. Someone ask a question! Answering questions is what motivates me to practice and get better with Johnny!

i'm sure someone has asked before but i dont want bother searching,so can you tell me what the purpose of the mist is?like how do i benefit from using it?

[excelence]

Unblockable Mist finner?

[10stars]

I picked Johnny because he looks cool. Same reason I picked Bang, and same reason I luckily play mags. After playing Johnny this long now, Tiers (in the US) are borderline meaningless. There's Eddies that will be on top in the US yeah, like Latif, Marlin, and Marn. But the rest of the Eddies running around (That I've played on the east coast) definitely aren't playing to the best of his ability. Johnny players learn more because they can't rely on their character to win them matches, its based off of the players skill level, instead of the position on the tier list. But to continue on why our boy is low tier, he's tension dependent (even though he has THE highest tension gain in game) in almost every situation. He has trouble zoning, and a limited amount of coins. His oki game is decent in corners with mist, but he lacks a throw immune attack such as Jams 5h and Mays 5k, so he really has to be more careful. He has a piss poor high low mixup as qwerty said, but he was given a good throw game.