AC: Offensive/Defensive Guide

[4r5]

Then a clash happens. What you heard about clashes only happening with equal level attacks is false. An extreme example: Jam's 5P, a level 1 attack, can clash with Johnny's Overdrive, a level 5 attack.

[Xeno]

THANK YOU. Clears up all my misunderstanding now.

[A3Religion]

Quick tip that gave me the winning edge on almost every fight I get into on the defensive standpoint that I definitely don't see enough Johnny players do (not even Japanese). My secret for an easy win on most people is to *drum roll* Use the Coin as an anti-air when someone is coming in for seven reasons: 1) It's really fast so you don't have to predict if their coming in its almost just a reaction. 2) It is in an angle that 98% of attacks that come in the air for you from between the 8-9 directions will be deflected. 3) It is a projectile so you don't have to worry about being counter hit. 4) If they are dashing they can't block in time. 5) Even if they are good enough to block you are in the advantage with them in the air blocking your next attacks. 6) It usually ends up in a Counter Hit. 7) Lastly if it results in a Counter Hit than you can easily follow it up into a HS-MF lvl 2 P-J.K-J.S-J.S-J.HS-KJ FRC-J.S-J.K-J.S-J.D-Ensenga or however you want to end the combo for decent damage EVERYTIME you anti air someone. Sorry the only thing that could stop it that I have seen so far is Anji's J.S, the hitbox on that thing is fucking weird.

[4r5]

I use to use Coin as anti-air a lot. Well, it's not like I stopped. It's just that people stopped approaching me so recklessly from the air. Now and days, I rarely got a chance to ground-to-air someone with a Coin. If it's working for you, then by all means keep using it. They're just giving you free damage. Just be ready for when people up their game. And even though the Coin is a projectile, you can still get countered during the startup, like any other move. Not like getting normal-hit is any better. Back to the part about not seeing Japanese do it. Remember that we only see the end product of their play. Putting aside how the way their tournaments are conducted affects their playstyles; if you don't see a Japanese player do something, there's usually a reason. Maybe that reason is good for them and bad for us, maybe not. You still have to respect that their environment allows them to progress faster then us. (That is, assuming they are good players. Japan still has their bad players and sometimes they make it in to vids.)

[D4Nt3]

I use coin as anti-air many times, it catches everyones IAD so i like it. Also Bandit Bringer (Sol's 236[K]) goes above the coin in most cases.

[A3Religion]

I use to use Coin as anti-air a lot. Well, it's not like I stopped. It's just that people stopped approaching me so recklessly from the air. Now and days, I rarely got a chance to ground-to-air someone with a Coin. If it's working for you, then by all means keep using it. They're just giving you free damage. Just be ready for when people up their game.

And even though the Coin is a projectile, you can still get countered during the startup, like any other move. Not like getting normal-hit is any better.

Back to the part about not seeing Japanese do it. Remember that we only see the end product of their play. Putting aside how the way their tournaments are conducted affects their playstyles; if you don't see a Japanese player do something, there's usually a reason. Maybe that reason is good for them and bad for us, maybe not. You still have to respect that their environment allows them to progress faster then us. (That is, assuming they are good players. Japan still has their bad players and sometimes they make it in to vids.)

I have been ready for when people wised up because I play a lot of the high level players in New York. Regardless if they "up their game", I have been able to handle people running in easily utilizing Johnny's range. Eventually so people will jump in regardless of how many times you hit them because it is a big part of some characters' play style. Even if the do block it, you still have the advantage. Even if they manage to SlashBack it, you still have the advantage with being able to use another anti-air or coin. If upping their game could do something about that situation I would really like to know (I wasn't being sarcastic).

If you do get Counter hit, you must be moving real slow the move is like 4 frames, seriously.

I completely agree about the scrub Johnny players from Japan being seen more. Without question there has been a lot of new Johnny players out there now really making him look as low tier as he can get. I have honestly seen more new Johnnys than any another character of recently besides a lot of new May players. Bleed, Suzume, and Omito don't use it but I really would like to know why they don't. DC does use it though because that is where I got the habit from.

Anyway I think that it is a great anti-air with the least consequence of any other anti-air Johnny has.

Sorry I saw Bleed and Suzume use it in some matches, my bad.

[4r5]

If upping their game could do something about that situation I would really like to know (I wasn't being sarcastic).

If people wanna throw themselves into that situation, then that's their problem. What I was saying, is that people aren't going to throw themselves in to your anti-air's forever.

I wasn't refuting the use of Coins as an anti-air. Everything you said about Coin anti-air is true. I was just trying to explain why you don't see many Johnny's use it. It's not that they don't know they can. It's that they aren't presented with many opportunities to do so.

[Killerwatt]

How useful is a Level 1 Mist Finer, besides cancelling projectiles I mean?

L1MFU could make a good zoning tool for people who love jumping around. Other than that I'm not sure, I rarely use the other L1's as they are too easy to block.

[4r5]

They got a bit more range then your normals. They all knockdown on CH. HMF1 is about the only one that's useful at lv1. It actually recovers faster then its higher level versions. So it has some uses as a poke. It's also your only standing move with that kind of coverage. You can combo off of it too, if you're close enough to the corner. CH HMF1 can also setup a Mist, or it did pre-AC, haven't done it in AC. And if it still safely setups up a Mist, in AC, I'm not sure RC'ing a Lv1 MF is worth it anymore, with the nerfs to DB and JH. I guess I'll have to make a note to look into that latter. The other two are just too slow, at lv1, to really make use of them. If you have the time to get out a MMF1 or a LMF1, you probably also had the time to do something better. MMF1 and LMF2 have some purpose in very, very, specific situations, or just stupid gimmicks. Like counter poking Axl's 5P. Or just randomly ending your blockstrings with them to randomly get free hits. They're nothing extraordinary. They don't have any weird quirk that can be exploited for some sort of awesome setup. It's not like any of them hit overhead, for you to create a ghetto guessing game. What you see is really what you get.

[qwerty]

i've noticed that MFPLV1's are incredibly useful against jam and chipp specifically (or anyone who likes to jump in in general). i've occasionally landed MFKLV1's on ch and gotten lucky with otg coins as well, but that's about it. as for level 3 mf's, MFPLV3 sets up a perfect combo if you land all or most of the hits. i've recently been experimenting with MFKLV3's to see if there's anything useful you can do off of it's bounce effect, but i have come up with little. edit: though i should note that level 3's in general have shit priority. you can be tapped out of it before the first hit even lands, and then you're back to level 1 . even worse is when you get pot bustered/gv'd out of them. don't ask me how, it just happens .

[4r5]

You can followup MMF3's with a dash K(ji)-HS>DBT>DB(frc),etc and do old style DB combos. you got to hit it pretty close though. You can also do Coin,HMF2,etc but again, have to be pretty close. If you're far away, you can do a dash,f.S>JH, then proceed to do the old JI'ed DB combos. Haven't really fooled around with Lv3 MF's too much. Pretty low on my priority list, at the moment. I've been trying to break my old Slash habit of building up to Lv3. I bet there's a good deal of character-specifics, not to mention the spacing issues. Also, you should hit confirm into your MF's, if you don't want to lose your levels to counter hits.

[qwerty]

i'll usually set up level 3's with 2D, since it's a guaranteed hit with no proration. the problem with this being that it doesn't work on every character (most notably ky, dizzy and robo ky) so against them i'll usually end up doing mist after enkasu and hope to god they don't thow a poke that outprioritizes it, though hit checking is probably a much smarter idea. if you want, i could do a (fairly) comprehensive write up on level 3's sometime soon. i have enough free time at the moment and i could probably document all of the properties against every character in a week or so.

[4r5]

I like to do my own work. But if you wanna do it for other people, don't let me stop you.

[Killerwatt]

if you want, i could do a (fairly) comprehensive write up on level 3's sometime soon. i have enough free time at the moment and i could probably document all of the properties against every character in a week or so.

That would be quite useful!

Anyway, I'm curious to know what other JO's do after hit-confirming a MFL3U. I personally follow up with an air combo ending in Ensenga. What other options are there?

[4r5]

After a HMF3, you pretty much get whatever you want. Coin, iad.K-S-D>Enkasu dash, K(ji)-HS>DBT>DB(frc), etc DBT(ji)>DB(frc), etc Coin, iad.K-S, land, jump, etc MSJH, etc Coin, MSJH, etc/Mist 6HS>tkKJ(frc), K-D, land, jump, etc Coin, MMF2, etc etc, etc Of course there's alot of spacing issues to take in to account. Anyone here played JO in Slash? If you did, you may see the spacing and instinctively try to do your old combos. Which for the most part, still work but are just harder to do. And don't seem to do as much damage as they did in Slash, which makes me question the coin/tension investment. Especially since Johnny's AC combos don't have as many dashes and airdashes, as his pre-AC combos, which hurt his tension gain. Anyways, if you're still going to do the Lv3 MF writeup I'll give you a head startup. After a MMF3, you pretty much get the same thing you got from a Slash-JO's MMF2. Which is basicly: Coin, etc dash, K/c.S/f.S/HS or whatever else you can get to connect, etc MSJH, etc And all these went in to pre-AC DB combos, but since DB isn't the same anymore, you're going to have to figure out the new followups. I just settle for a combo that nets me a Lv2 + a Mist setup. The combo usually involves a JH or an Coin,iad.etc. After a LMF3, you only get an OTG, which you should probably use on a Coin. If you RC the last hit, then you get the same followups as Slash-JO's LMF2, which is pretty much the same as I've listed above. And a random freebie I remember doing once: LMF3>RC, 6HS>Coin, f.S>HMF2, combo Don't remember the character I did it on, so there maybe some stipulations. Lv3's tend to rape the guard guage. Making the worth of big followup combos kinda unreasonable. Which is why I try to keep followups brief. If you intend to explore beyond the usual Coin+Knockdown combos, then you should look in to: HS>DBT>DB(frc) - 2 frame link HS>KJT>KJ(frc) - 1 frame link the Transport FRC's - shrug goodluck, happy comboing

[qwerty]

Alright, here's the simple guide to MFPLV3 combos. This one didn't take long because I already knew most of this to begin with. When I get the chance to try out the more complex combos (see: when I get my stick) I'll edit this post and add those in. The basic MFPLV3 setup is started with a 2D. This is because 2D doesn't prorate, and when you start with 2D, you don't run the risk of whiffing any hits (or god forbid, the whole thing). You also can't be teched out of 2D, which means your opponent is completely defenseless against it (unless of course, they have Burst). When should you be using level 3 combos? Admittedly, not very often. Quick list of pros and cons: Pros: - Does 200+ points of damage to all characters, including Potemkin - Relatively easy to set up; if you can land 2D, you can land a level 3 - Since MFPLV3's have a long, unrecoverable float effect, you're free to do pretty much whatever you want after it lands - Good for ending matches in your favor quickly and for awesome comebacks Cons: - Requires a specific setup; can't combo off of random hits like level 2's - Requires that you land two coins on your opponent (or two Return Jacks) - If you don't land it on 2D, properties become very specific depending on character's weight and distance - Not practical enough to be a staple technique, but it has it's uses It should be noted that the 2D setup doesn't work on: AB, RO, KY, DI Against those four, you should use a 2D CH setup which works on: Everyone The basic combo is: 2D(1) -> MFPLV3 -> j.K j.S dj.K j.S j.D -> Ensenga(1) Damage values are as follows: PO: 202 OS: 218 SL: 223 SO: 233 FA: 233 JO: 236 MA: 239 TE: 239 ZA: 239 IN: 241 AN: 241 AX: 241 VE: 241 JA: 245 BR: 246 ED: 246 BA: 267 MI: 274 CH: 290 If you land the 2D as a counter, you will be able to land the MFPLV3 on KY, RO, AB and DI. Damage values for those characters are as follows: AB: 202 RO: 207 KY: 239 DI: 268 I won't bother listing the damage values for the other characters, since most are the same as a regular hit anyways. If you manage to land the first three hits of the level 3 on CH, however, you can add as much as an extra 120 damage to the basic combo (it actually kills Chipp, counting the damage from coins), though the only way I know of to do this is to get the opponent's Guard Bar up. And if you feel like that just isn't enough, do a KJ FRC Ensenga combo instead of a basic one. That will add that extra little bit of damage you'll need to kill someone if they have more health than the basic does damage. I'll be doing MFKLV3's next, though you should expect that to take awhile.

[4r5]

oh, forgot to tell you to combo in to a HMF3 off of a non-CH 2D RO 2D(1)>MC3, 2K-etc AB 2D(1)>MC3, K-etc 2D(1)>MC3, 2K-etc 2D(1)>MC3, c.S-etc KY 2D(1)>MC3, c.S-etc DI 2D(1)>MC3, K-etc 2D(1)>MC3, c.S-etc 2D(1)>MC3, 2D-etc they're also useful, on the other chars, to give you the spacing to setup diffrent followup combos

[Killerwatt]

How do you guys feel about comboing into TMN? I did it as a followup to a successful KJ->c5S->5H->TMN (I kinda improvised the TMN, wasn't something I set out to do). My opponent wasn't too pleased, but I have to argue that while it didn't give me extra damage, it did give me a guaranteed KD after a combo, which is no different than say, an enkasu combo after a throw. Also, it looks kinda cool to pull off . Thoughts anyone?

[render]

I tend to only combo into it when my opponent is really close to death, and/or when I want to keep them from bursting. If you're pretty sure you can kill them with a super, then I think you have ever reason to combo into it. They can't burst out of that shit. If you watch a bunch of Omito vids (couldn't tell you which ones) you'll see him do this occasionally. Anyway, that's my opinion on it...

[10stars]

How do you guys feel about comboing into TMN? I did it as a followup to a successful KJ->c5S->5H->TMN (I kinda improvised the TMN, wasn't something I set out to do). My opponent wasn't too pleased, but I have to argue that while it didn't give me extra damage, it did give me a guaranteed KD after a combo, which is no different than say, an enkasu combo after a throw. Also, it looks kinda cool to pull off . Thoughts anyone?

Enkasus after a throw for me lead to a mist or a corner 2p > coin, johnnys oki tends to be more mists or recoins, so its really not worth it to use for KD unless you're fighting someone like aba who's in moroha mode, imo, where KDs are your best friend.

I've combod into TMN if im in the right corner and want to throw them into the right corner from 5k > 5hs if im deep enough, other than that, i use it for pressure breaks and nothing else.

[4r5]

I like to have a return on investments. I'll combo into it if proration/guardbar won't cut any damage off of it. Or I'll use it to rob someone of an airtech, if I think they were going to try something funny. Or if I planned an oki maneuver that'll catch them, but I generally don't do this, still. Since JO's OD is hella long, it also gives them time to think and the yomi might loop back around. And I don't like it when the yomi loops back around. Generally I don't combo in to OD. Like to just hold on to the meter and make people scared of a potential super. Also, I've been trying out no-combo Johnny. Lv3 definitely fills some of the holes in AC-Johnny. And all the fast MCing gives you alot of meter, that I'm use to having from pre-AC. Pretty cool, almost feels like I'm playing old-Johnny, but no combos MSDJH and HS>KJT>KJ(frc),DB(frc),HS-D combos are hard.

[10stars]

I like to have a return on investments. I'll combo into it if proration/guardbar won't cut any damage off of it. Or I'll use it to rob someone of an airtech, if I think they were going to try something funny. Or if I planned an oki maneuver that'll catch them, but I generally don't do this, still. Since JO's OD is hella long, it also gives them time to think and the yomi might loop back around. And I don't like it when the yomi loops back around.

Generally I don't combo in to OD. Like to just hold on to the meter and make people scared of a potential super. Also, I've been trying out no-combo Johnny. Lv3 definitely fills some of the holes in AC-Johnny. And all the fast MCing gives you alot of meter, that I'm use to having from pre-AC. Pretty cool, almost feels like I'm playing old-Johnny, but no combos

MSDJH and HS>KJT>KJ(frc),DB(frc),HS-D combos are hard.

Agreed on the combos listed being hard. Been going pretty hardcore with johnny since august and i still cant land them all the time, 50/50s suck.

[Gravelneed]

I have been trying to do combos like this: 5K, 5HS, LMFLV2, j.K, j.S, dj.k, KJ(FRC), j.S, j.K, j.S, j.D, Ensenga 6HS, MSJH, 5K (JI) 5HS, KJT > KJ (Frc), j.S, dj.S, j.H, KJ(Frc), j.S, dj.S, j.H, j.D, Ensenga. 300+ Damage I think I have the JI right. I just have to press up after 5K(I think). Anyway, I can never get an air combo from KJT>KJ. Whenever I (F)RC, Johnny just flies to the ground missing his attack on the opponent. Can anyone help?

[4r5]

What character are you doing this on? Also, positioning is important. You don't want 5K to connect from too far. Are you flying over and past them, after the KJ?

[Gravelneed]

I have been trying this on Zappa, Faust, Slayer, Baiken, Ky, and Order-Sol Yeah, everytime I do this, I fly over and past them.