Dacidbro Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 There's really no free punish for Noel's overhead since it's only -4. I've actually found that j.4B is the best punish on IB though. After 6B, she can 3C, 5D, 2D, 6D, or 4D. If you try to 5A or 5B any of those moves Noel will beat you clean (IB 5A will beat 5D and 6D but only if she gatlings straight into them without delay). 2A isn't any better either. What is pretty much universally safe is IBing 6B and then jumping forward and holding back immediately. If she does 3C or 6D you will just jump over and can land a j.4B for punish. If she does 2D or 4D you will jump IB and can punish with 5A/5B when you land. If she does 5D it will normally hit you out of a forward jump, but if you hold back Bang will go into air blocking stance and that actually shrinks his hitbox over the 5D. It's a lulzy option select but it does work. If she doesn't follow up 6B with anything, though, don't try to punish, you'll just eat a 4D AA. If you IB jump forward OS you will still lose to 3C. (I believe. If you really don't, that makes Noel's mix up truly embarrassing. But I can say with 99% positivity you will.)
Justice7541 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 If you IB jump forward OS you will still lose to 3C. (I believe. If you really don't, that makes Noel's mix up truly embarrassing. But I can say with 99% positivity you will.) Unless I'm somehow programming the training dummy wrong it definitely works. You just jump right over her.
huey253 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 i don't think noel has any chains into 3C that can't be ib jumped out of and noels mixup is probably the worst in the game imo
Dacidbro Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Wow. All this time I've been respecting it for no reason. Well, if it's any consolation for myself, you won't be able to in CS2, that's for damn sure.
huey253 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 i mash 2D instead of respecting it, its much easier that way *no noel experience lol*
Justice7541 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 >implying you need any matchup experience to beat Noel
huey253 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 hey, i can't remember the last time i've lost to noel. ahahaha
Yoshara Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 As a simple question, how bad does it feel to land wake up Ashura, but while Bang is still posing your opponent quick get-up 5A's and starts a massive corner combo on you?
weazzyefff Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 So what combo do you do on Tager in the corner? There must be some godlk combo. Not these stink as, he's so huge i can't combo for shit in the corner ones lol.
rei-Scarred Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) That's extremely relative it depends on what you start with. 5B 2B 2C d2B 623B dash under 5B 2B j4C jC j623B for poor man's combo. Also for corner combos since Bang's options are actually fairly limited, I often combo into j623B in the corner and do 2A cross under cause the timing is set up perfectly. Edited January 19, 2011 by rei-Scarred
weazzyefff Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Like what would you do if you started the BnB on tager in the corner? Cos after the 623B you can't do shit except 5B>6C.jC or something. that's the one i've been doing. But i just thought their might be better ones as there is for smaller chars lol.
Justice7541 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Didn't know dash under 5B worked on Tager.
Dacidbro Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 As a simple question, how bad does it feel to land wake up Ashura, but while Bang is still posing your opponent quick get-up 5A's and starts a massive corner combo on you? It's sharply negative on hit, but you are invincible until you are able to act. Most commonly, simply mashing backdash will beat all attempts to hit you. Justice, I don't actually think it does. Or if it does, it's certainly only if you were as far in the corner as possible.
Justice7541 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Ashura is like -2 on hit IIRC, they can beat out anything you throw out afterwards but they can't punish you ir stop you from jumping out or anything.
rei-Scarred Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Dash under 5B always works on Tager if you d2B. It's a good practice to always d2B after j.D and 2C for this reason, and for more corner push when you aren't there yet. Reverse daifunka always works with d2B as well. Other random corner combo 5B 2B 6C j.D 6A 623B 5B 2B j.B j4C dj4CC j623B
Greyyy Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Sup guys I recently picked up Blazblue and I'm learning Bang because he's awesome. I do have a few questions though. 1. The biggest problem I have with Bang is getting close to the other guy. For example, my friend also got the game and he's learning Ragna. It feels like I only have two ways of closing the gap on him, I can either run in and hit him or I can airdash in and kick him. The problem I have is that he can basically turtle me out, since he can inferno divider my air kick if I try to dash into him, and he can outrange all my ground moves if I try to run into him. I know I can throw nails to force him to block, but they feel like a crutch and I don't like having to rely on them. Are there any other tricks I can use to close the gap with my opponent? 2. My blockstrings suck ass. All my of moves seem to knock back so far and are so short range that I can only land 3-4 attacks before the blocker is out of range of me, and then I'm back trying to close the gap with them, which I suck at. How do I keep the pressure up on the guy I'm fighting? 3. I hear all the time that Bang's wakeup game is one of the strongest, but I'm terrible at it. I don't really know what to do when the guy waking up can basically roll in one of 3 directions. I'm used to playing Zangief in SSF4 where it's just like "Oh, you're standing up? Lol I grab you.". Are there specific things I should be doing when I have the opponent on the ground? 4. I don't understand the whole "lol mash 5a" joke. When am I supposed to be mashing it? When I'm stuck in a blockstring? Do I just stick it out randomly and hope it beats moves? I realize it's fast as fuck and has high priority, but it's got tiny reach and I can't spam it the same way I can jabs in SF4. 5. Is there a reason I should learn more 5b combos when I can just keep using the same one over and over? I tried using a combo with 6C in it, but it whiffs on crouch so what's the point when I can keep using the same combo that works on everything? 6. When is a good time to use my barrier gauge? I pretty much never use it and I feel like I'm missing out. Thanks in advance for the help, I realize I'm terrible at this game but I'd really like to get better.
Dacidbro Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Hey man, I'm sorry, this is going to be incredibly brief because I'm going to be heading to bed. 1. If you're having difficulty approaching, watch high level Bangs play (Dora, Nezu, Satoshi) and see their approaches. You can use the methods they have of getting in to inspire you to create your own. Be creative. Try to avoid "Dnails > air dash" in most matchups, but sometimes it's a really good idea. Also, air dash > instant A nail is a good approach in some matchups (Hakumen, particularly), but it's kind of gimmicky as you have landing recovery. 2. Again, watch good bangs play. Recognize what they do for blockstrings, emulate it, and create your own twist. Bang's blockstrings are legendary once you figure it out. 3. Bang's wakeup game is total shit. He does not even have one reliable reversal (Daifunka is too slow, Ashura is not instantly invulnerable, steel rain loses to reactionary grab, 6D gets mashed out, 2D and 5D both don't start first frame) except backdash, and his backdash frequently loses to meaties and is irrelevant in the corner. Sorry to break it to you, but playing Bang you really have no choice but to block on wakeup. Learn how to use barrier and IB to make their strings less dangerous after you start blocking, and save meter for Counter Assault if you're having trouble. 4. "Mash 5A" is kind of more of a stab at me than anything, because I have based most of my defensive game around it (and people have cried foul beecause their blockstrings suck)(Double note; a lot of Bangs, myself included a long time ago, would press 5A whenever they didn't know what was going on, and sometimes get paid for it, resulting in rage). Basically, on defense, 5A is almost always his best interruption move, because it is very hard to low profile and starts up SUPER fast. But it's not invincible, so it's still really hard to use to mash out of smart blockstrings. Takes a strong read and usually an IB, but if you pull it off regularly, you can make it look pretty broken. It's also an oookayyy anti air and a good footsies tool if used instantly after a dash. 5. Only learn combos that matter. At max range, you need to know 5B 2B 6C j623B 5B etc to be able to pick up the combo; crouching is 5B 2B 2C d2B 623B etc, and so on. 6. Use your barrier gauge sporadically. First, you have to be able to really block, to use it decently at all. Then, try using it at random times, or when you think they're mashing on too many mids, to push them out and not let them reset their pressure.
DaiAndOh Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Dacid he meant Okizeme for #3. Part of it is getting used to the damn rolling and tech system. Bang's wakeup game is of course more complex than SFIV Gief, but you have more options (as do they). Learn what their options are out of tech (as well as say each character's DP), then you can apply your own counter options (catching rolls, bumpers, blockstrings, mixups, air tech resets, delayed tech resets/pickups). For 5, with the example you provided for instance, generally 6c combos will do more damage/more seals. The combos that generally matter with Bang aren't too hard and you can change them based on your playstyle (seals/oki/damage etc.)
Dacidbro Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Ahhhhhhhhhh, I get it. My fault on that one, skimmed it hard, trying to get as much useful info into my post in like 5 minutes.
Greyyy Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 More stupid questions: 1. At what point in a blockstring can I jump over my opponent and do 4b? I've seen people do it online and it looks like hella sweet mixup. 2. What are some good ways to mix my command grab into my blockstrings? 3. How do I beat tech traps/wakeup? I always get caught right after I do my roll and eat another 4k combo.
Dacidbro Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 1. You can do that at any jump-cancellable normal, most commonly 5A, 2B, 5C or 6A. Just be careful, it's not nearly as good offline as it is online. 2. The most "solid-gameplay" oriented command grabs are going to be at any point where your opponent has to think about your mixup simultaneously, like ticking off a point blank 5A/2A, ticking off a j4B (the vacuum brings them point blank), or straight off of oki. Just make sure you give them a lot to think about; if you run a lot of tight pressure (IE, reset it on Dnails to make them feel like they have to keep blocking forever), it will be very hard to read and avoid. 3. You have to wakeup intelligently. Here is the list of wakeup options, from weakest to strongest. A. Down-tech. You immediately get up off the ground, and can cancel into a normal or special at 7 frames (for reference, that's the time it takes Bang's jA to start up, so if you wanted to cancel it into 5A, it would take 12 frames). There is no flash, so it beats an opponent who is trying to strictly react to your wakeup. However, there is NO invulnerability. B. Forward-tech. You roll forward. Very, very small amount of invulnerability, this is only going to get you out of a few set ups (IE, you read your opponent trying to set up an airdash fuzzy guard wakeup, you roll past him as he airdashes forward). Very situational. C. Back-tech. You roll backwards, pretty decent invulnerability. Problem is the recovery time is pretty slow, and there is a designated set of frames where you are unable to mash anything but can still be put in blockstun. Still, a pretty strong option, will beat any meatied overhead or low, usually. (Unless you're in the corner) D. Neutral-tech. You pop straight up and land exactly where you were. The slowest of techs, but simultaneously the most solid. It is literally impossible to "punish" a neutral tech, you are invulnerable until the frame you can act. Be careful though! If this is the only tech you use, your opponent's mix up will flourish. For Bang, the strongest "reversal" he has after neutral tech is backdash, so one way to get out is Neutral tech > 1st frame backdash. To get more ideas about wakeup, watch strong players.
Recommended Posts