[CS1] Bang Discussion and Question Thread

[huey253]

i think its +4 lk.

[StarryShade]

Anybody have any tips for doing d.2B's after 2C's and whatnot?

Or doing d.2D after 623B for moar seals? I can't seem to time it right.

[huey253]

dash 2B.. wait a little to input the dash input and then 2B

dash 2D... pretty hard, you have to input 2D right after you input the dash, but its really strict...

[StarryShade]

Yeah but they always tech before the 2B for me and if I do land it...I'm usually so surprised and I drop the combo anyways XD

[huey253]

use advanced input (hold down the button) and also do the 2B earlier

[taoarena66]

just wonderin would it be practical to do a ground command grab rapid 2nd hit then raining shuriken when landing that super if at all dosent seemd used anywhere can some 1 tell me why

[Dacidbro]

The only instances where it is worth rapiding your command grab into steel rain are very, very rare. Lets take the costs;

100 meter

All of your nails

No oki

High damage

Compared to the similar command grab rapid Daifunka;

100 meter

No nails

Really, really strong oki

High damage

That's why you rarely if ever see it. Now, if you're playing against TAGER, the damage for rapid > steel rain is absolutely ridiculous, and may very well be worth it. On every other character, it's almost always better to use Daifunka, if you have the meter for it anyway.

[iw2ma]

I say if you have 7+ nails vs Tager, and 100% meter than always opt for it over Daifunka. But if not, then don't do it.

[Dacidbro]

Personally, only if it kills them. Nails mean too much.

[XDj03l]

Ok i got a ?. today im messin around with bang and i get this combo i cant finsh so, i continue to play with it but, i cant finish it you can tech b4 the last j.c so, this is what i did 5B,2B,6C,5D,2B,623B,d.6C,623B,5A,5B,j.5A,j.5B,(they tech) dj.623C i get about 5k+ DMG from this and, if they dont tech i can Black beat the combo and get like 3.1k/3.2k. ok my ? is " is this Practical and if so is anyone else using this because its Uber Juicey for me and whey does it always tech after j.5a,j.5b there not out of range are anything i wanna kno why so i can make more gimmicks like this. if i get a better understanding i can run crazy things like this all day =}D

[Dacidbro]

As a precursor to answering your question, your notation is a bit off. If it's an aerial move, put j(moveletter), and only with a number if it isn't neutral, as neutral is implied. The trap you posted is certainly a tech trap, and tech traps are used, but rarely. For example, it won me this match at SoCal Regionals; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YWnOL11ARg#t=1m10s

The reason they can tech is you have broken down the "proration" too far. Every hit applies a percentage of decay to the damage and untechable time of all of your hits, eventually adding up to too much to keep comboing. If you check the guides page of dustloop, go to continuum shift guides, then click Bang, you can see the numbers yourself (P1 and P2 are the important ones; P1 is only applied if it is the first hit, P2 is applied with every single hit in the combo)

[XDj03l]

Ok thanx but, how would i do the math for that whats the limit is it a specific number for both untechable time and proration and does the amount of hits in a combo factor in as well???

[Dacidbro]

Well.. it gets pretty muddy. The problem is, most attacks have a different "level" which determines just how much hitstun they have, meaning at any given point in your combo certain moves could be combo'd after, but others not, and there is also loop proration which makes certain combos work even worse. For example, if you use two 623B in your combo, the proration goes to hell and your combo will always immediately drop. If you use two j623B, the proration is steeply affected, but not nearly as much. Basically, you want to look up the combos professional players such as Satoshi and Nezu use, because they already use the optimal ones, and save yourself a long time experimenting.

Hits in the combo is completely irrelevant to proration

[XDj03l]

Yeah 4sure i do know those not hard to find out or see but, me i like to find my own creative way to use a character. ppl get that "OO WHAW WHat is that" look on there face when they see it and its effective thats just me though, i also play tekken this way lol so yeah i like a challenge, but 4sure thanx Brah =}D

[Ragnarok]

How many frames is jump startup for our manly ninja ?

[huey253]

4 frames

[Ragnarok]

Thanks. Gotta now look where i can fit those jD during blockstrings of my regular matchups (and why it fails against some things).

[Dacidbro]

Ah.. offense is a LOT more complicated than combos. But yes, it's a good start.

[weazzyefff]

Yer your right. I had some games online. Couldn't wait to try out the combo's. I couldn't even get in. Bang got shit range man. I was walking into godlike pokes from nearly every other char. HOw do you's get in?

Also what's the oki in this game? They pretty much teching out for free by me. Like say if they tech back roll? Or tech neutral etc etc.

[Justice7541]

Bang's 5B is one of the best distance pokes while his 5A is one of the best close-in pokes. Use them. For approach abuse A nail and D nail.

[Dacidbro]

Honestly, it's very difficult to explain effectively. You should watch strong Bangs playing (American noteworthy Bangs, Kenneth, myself, Huey253 and others: videos of me on the youtube channel "BBVlog" Japanese noteworthy Bangs, Nezu, Dora, Satoshi, and others, videos of them everywhere)

Edited December 21, 2010 by Dacidbro

[Wokker]

I got a question. I want to imrove my FRKZ Bang since I love playing Bang in that mode(pure awesome).

Im a total FRKZ beginner, got any tips? Like good pressure strings and general tips?

[Dacidbro]

BEFORE FRKZ, the most important thing about playing CS FRKZ Bang is knowing how to, at VERY LEAST, hit confirm a 2 seal combo off of every hit. Just in case you don't know some 2 seal combos, here ya go

Standing

[5A, 2A, 5B] 2B 6C jD 2B 623B 5D j4C jC (will bluebeat on ender if 2A starter, that's fine)

Crouching

[5A, 5B] 2B 2C web d6C jD web 5C 6D

Most people know the standing one, the crouching one is actually pretty hard, but you need to learn it, especially since a variant of it will likely be the go-to 2 seal in BBCS2.

Okay, to play FRKZ Bang effectively, you need to be able to do any move you want without failure. That means you have to buffer very, very intelligently. Any time you need to use a special, you have to buffer it through something (IE for drive nails in the air, dash into the air and do the 236 during dash, then press D as soon as the dash ends. Or for double palm during 2B 623B combo, buffer it during the 2B's start up frames, then press and hold B when 2B hits for 5 frames extra input to guarantee the double palm will execute.), and that takes a lot of practice to get comfortable with. After you're comfortable with that, you can learn the easy mode FRKZ combos like I did, and tear everyone's face up.

Most important FRKZ combo (Absolutely any hit except 2A, which you omit one j4C for) (dashes notated with direction, and if you cross up)

[x] 2C 6-dashcross 2B 9-dashcross j4C 8dash j4C 2dash 8dash j4C 9dash j4C jD 2dash 2B 623B Daifunka

It's very important to dash only when notated, if you dash between the j4C and jD, it won't work.

Okay, now for mix up. Use basic normal strings (like 5A 2A 2A 5B 2B), but then add in ridiculous extra mix up whenever you want (Anything is dash cancellable; it's like you can revolver gatling into anything. Go crazy. Example; 5A 5B 6A 2C 6A crossup 5A 5B 2B 6A 2C 6A 2C 6A cross 5A, etc), and absolutely any hit you get confirms into the above combo.

Let me know if anything is confusing, learning FRKZ is actually quite hard.

[Wokker]

Thanks for the tips!

[Dacidbro]

Oh, I forgot, the most effective FRKZ overhead is 9dash jC 2dash (confirm combo/continue mix up).