shtkn Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 this is a CS thread. if you continue this CT talk, i will delete or infract. Take CT discussion to the CT thread. sigh i should probably delete those posts... I will hopefully be able to play CS this weekend, so if you have things you want me to test please post up.
Sarsapari Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 jB is so bad now Kevin ; ; how to Jin-chan without learning?
smooshman Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 can you still air combo with 2C if they're still on the ground? ... Stop hitting C so much. And C mash DOES combo in CT. It's just easier in CS. 236 D is his bitchiest attack... *sigh* No, it's not. By the sounds of it, you aren't even talking about his j. 236 D, which is an overall more useful attack than the ground version, which is only useful in corner combos. I should leave this alone but... 1.) shut up... 2.) it's bitchy because the tricks are great because (and yes j236d too) a.) it air combos b.) if blocked mid (like an idiot)you can 2b and freeze, air combo c.)if they jump it cut the middle man, AIR COMBO
Butters Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 this is a CS thread. if you continue this CT talk, i will delete or infract. Take CT discussion to the CT thread. sigh i should probably delete those posts... I will hopefully be able to play CS this weekend, so if you have things you want me to test please post up. Your right, my apologies. I heard that you can no longer A DP between the hits of 236 D. Could you confirm this?
smooshman Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 sorry but I'm sort of slow when things aren't said straight to my face. so am I going to have to re-learn Jin or adjust and forget some of the combos I never used (I'm looking at you 5C> JB) or pick-up new strategies, tactics and attacks (JC[counter]> 2D AWSOME)
smooshman Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 double post so sue me just to clear something up ice differs from hitstun because: upon recovering there are no invincible frames which means: freeze, break, face punch. also you can't recover and move at the same time like, so you can't roll, or if your in the air move foward or whatever... or am I wrong?
smooshman Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Ah! the infamous triple post :8/: no ones posted in like 2 hours so... if you 623b hakumen's (or jin's) yukikaze does it still make you invincible for the counter attack (or was that the the 1 in a million strike I got...)
Butters Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 sorry but I'm sort of slow when things aren't said straight to my face. so am I going to have to re-learn Jin or adjust and forget some of the combos I never used (I'm looking at you 5C> JB) or pick-up new strategies, tactics and attacks (JC[counter]> 2D AWSOME) Pozerwolf already answered this: He's practically a new character. Therefore, it should have absolutely no affect on the time it will take for you to learn how to properly use Jin, since if you never used 5C > j. B, you evidently didn't know how to properly use Jin in CT anyways. double post so sue me just to clear something up ice differs from hitstun because: upon recovering there are no invincible frames which means: freeze, break, face punch. also you can't recover and move at the same time like, so you can't roll, or if your in the air move foward or whatever... or am I wrong? ... Yeah, ice and hitstun are two different things. Sure. Why not. I really can't make out what it is you are trying to ask. Ah! the infamous triple post :8/: no ones posted in like 2 hours so... if you 623b hakumen's (or jin's) yukikaze does it still make you invincible for the counter attack (or was that the the 1 in a million strike I got...) ... You seriously want him to test this? Also, yes, noone posted in 2 hours: Does that matter? NO. Look dude.... Stop. Take a breather. Do more research on system mechanics and your character. Don't spam the thread. Post count is completely irrelevent. It's better to stay silent and be thought the fool than it is to speak and remove all doubt.
smooshman Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Pozerwolf already answered this: He's practically a new character. Therefore, it should have absolutely no affect on the time it will take for you to learn how to properly use Jin, since if you never used 5C > j. B, you evidently didn't know how to properly use Jin in CT anyways. ... Yeah, ice and hitstun are two different things. Sure. Why not. I really can't make out what it is you are trying to ask. ... You seriously want him to test this? Also, yes, noone posted in 2 hours: Does that matter? NO. Look dude.... Stop. Take a breather. Do more research on system mechanics and your character. Don't spam the thread. Post count is completely irrelevent. It's better to stay silent and be thought the fool than it is to speak and remove all doubt. ... fair enough first off i never used 5c> jb because I never found a need to. second: hitstun is different because in most situations you get atleast some invincebilty which is helpfully indicated by your character flashing white the ice allows you to immediatley hit them right after they break out instead of risking hitting an IF and getting punished. so in short BETTER third: I see your point and will consider it in the future and so you know boredom compells stupid behavior and I apologize for quite obviously annoying the fuck out of you.
shtkn Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 dude, you're annoying me too... please calm down and research before you post. i never did the corner combo with 623A in between hits of a 236D.... i'll try to get it down in CT before i go this weekend (no promises tho). hakumen's yukikaze should beat you doing 623B. it did in CT anyway. hell yukikaze hits people through bursts... i'm not going to test this. You sure it missed on you? i really doubt it, double check this and post your findings in teh CT thread if you prove me wrong. 2C leading to air combos vs enemies on the ground? please clarify your question. 2C vs grounded enemies did not lead to an air combo in CT... what makes you think it would in CS? People say that the new 2C is jump cancelable on hit only now, and that it's a fatal counter.
Felicia Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Haven't tested 2C... Fatal Counter though... I don't think it even guard breaks. I think when he mentioned 2C going into air combos he probably meant from OTG (ie 2C into 623A). You can still do it. Heck, you can still double up on 623A in some combos as well. Jin's Yukikaze is pretty good. Been using it a lot to counter overly aggressive players and break block strings. It is inferior to Haku-men's though, it won't stop low attacks; though I thought this was already known? 623B still has some upper-body invincibility, but it seems to a bit slower on recovery. 623A is still fast with no invincibility, it seems to have CT's 623B's recovery... maybe a touch faster. 623C still have the full-body invincibility and it's still unsafe. I haven't been able to combo from it, and I haven't seen anyone else pull it off, either. As I said in my last post (or, I thought I said) Jin feels slower and a little lacking on pressure. To me, it may be because he feels a bit different (and I'm used to playing Jin on a pad, not a stick) from before, so I haven't quite grasped his old/new stuff yet. j.236D isn't as godly as it used to be. 236D is still good for pressure and now it guard crushes on the first hit (making it even better). Jin feels like he gains meter a bit more quickly now than before. He's more... pokey? now I think. I love Jin's Yukikaze, by the way. It's great against Ice Car spammers. Speaking of which, you need to be more pro-active in defeating them. Since one of them is safe and the other guard crushes but isn't safe.
Ice Cube Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 double post so sue me just to clear something up ice differs from hitstun because: upon recovering there are no invincible frames which means: freeze, break, face punch. also you can't recover and move at the same time like, so you can't roll, or if your in the air move foward or whatever... or am I wrong? you can only roll or "flash white" (and no, in CS "flashing white" is only throw invincible) if you're in knockdown state... and hitstun IS NOT RELATED TO knockdown, neither is freeze. But I think I managed to get what you think: freeze does not knockdown, so your opponent is in standing state after freeze (no rolling/"flash white"), and freeze means HUGE hitstun so you can run up and do whatever if you end your combo with j.D or whatever. and in CT, 5c>j.b nets you extra damage so if you never find the need to do it, ... Anyway, to shtkn: 1) Since 2C fatal counter, why don't you try (on a reversal happy Ragna preferably): 2C(CH)>6C>2D>6Bxx5C>6C>dash cancel>5C>sjc>j.B>j.C>jc>j.2C>214C if the 6B doesn't work, just replace it with normal dash. 2) Does 6C>dash cancel>j.B still combo?? or maybe 6C>dash cancel>j.C? cos you know, shorter combo (omitted 5C) means easier knockdown in this game, so this might be important. 3) I have seen j.2C combo into 214C on youtube before (in a Jin Vs Litchi one). Can you try: 5C>6C>dash cancel>5C>sjc>(j.B?)>j.C>jc>j.2C>214C and (maybe falling j.C (CH))>2D>dash>6C>dash cancel>5C>sjc>(j.B?)>j.C>jc>j.2C>214C 4) If 2C does not CH a blocked inferno divider, can you test which is the most damaging way to begin your punish: with 5B (2hit) CH, 5B (1hit) CH or 5C CH into 6c?
BANGER Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 j.236D isn't as godly as it used to be. How so? What has changed? Sorry if pozerwolf or whoever else already mentioned it here in this thread, because for the life of me I can't find anything on it.
CrimsonDisaster Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Haven't tested 2C... Fatal Counter though... I don't think it even guard breaks. Guard break has nothing to do with Fatal Counter, other than a few FC moves coincidentally removing guard primer as well. BANGER: j236D has a lot of CH state landing recovery now.
render Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLlPdoVd2M0#t=1m24s Anyone care to explain why the 3C doesn't connect at the end of this combo? I'm still curious, but whatever the reason actually is, FUCK THAT.
Butters Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLlPdoVd2M0#t=1m24s Anyone care to explain why the 3C doesn't connect at the end of this combo? I'm still curious, but whatever the reason actually is, FUCK THAT. Maybe he just messed up and did it too late. Otherwise...
smooshman Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 if jin's (air) 214C rises a bit more like his ground one then then doesn't that make his RC combo easier 6C>dash cancel>5C>JB>J2C>J2C>JD>214C>RC>grab>214C or whatever his new BNB air combo is that ends in 214C of course this is theoretical
lxMetalSonicxl Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLlPdoVd2M0#t=1m24s Anyone care to explain why the 3C doesn't connect at the end of this combo? I'm still curious, but whatever the reason actually is, FUCK THAT. It looks like he did it too slow (to me) actually. if jin's (air) 214C rises a bit more like his ground one then then doesn't that make his RC combo easier 6C>dash cancel>5C>JB>J2C>J2C>JD>214C>RC>grab>214C or whatever his new BNB air combo is that ends in 214C of course this is theoretical I didn't think his air version of ice car had a height change, just a nerfed travel. Either way, that throw setup is really easy to spot and might not work anyway. The best RC combos might come from ice car B on the ground (at least, that's what seems to be the most useful situation for it).
smooshman Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 I didn't think his air version of ice car had a height change, just a nerfed travel. Either way, that throw setup is really easy to spot and might not work anyway. The best RC combos might come from ice car B on the ground (at least, that's what seems to be the most useful situation for it).
render Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 It looks like he did it too slow (to me) actually. I can accept that reason without being pissed off. I feel better now. Thanks! Can anyone clarify the changes to C ice car for me? In CT, you always ended combos with B ice car, cuz the startup on C ice car was too slow to connect. I know you can't end a simple ground chains with it (i.e. 5B > 5C > C ice car) (wait, or CAN you?), but what about in the air? Can you end air combos with C ice car now instead? I guess it would be easier if I just asked it this way: Do these work? (on crouch) 5C > 6C > dash cancel > 5C > sj > j2C > jD > C ice car 6C > 2D > 6C > dash cancel > 5C > sj > j2C > jC > j2C > C ice car 5B (2 hits) > 5C > C ice car
render Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Double post yay! shtkn, 5D can still dash cancel on block too, so it seems misleading to specify that it can dash cancel "on hit" in the first post.
smooshman Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 does JB>JC/J2C>JD>236D> land> dash> JB> J2C>J2C>214B work still now that ice has been changed and that 236D has less advantage Edit: I've seen some more videos and does 623C(CH)>JB>J2C>J2C>JD>214B not work any more either?
Felicia Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 I can accept that reason without being pissed off. I feel better now. Thanks! Can anyone clarify the changes to C ice car for me? In CT, you always ended combos with B ice car, cuz the startup on C ice car was too slow to connect. I know you can't end a simple ground chains with it (i.e. 5B > 5C > C ice car) (wait, or CAN you?), but what about in the air? Can you end air combos with C ice car now instead? I guess it would be easier if I just asked it this way: Do these work? (on crouch) 5C > 6C > dash cancel > 5C > sj > j2C > jD > C ice car 6C > 2D > 6C > dash cancel > 5C > sj > j2C > jC > j2C > C ice car 5B (2 hits) > 5C > C ice car With regards to Ice Car C in CT, yes you could do it. But there was a reason why everyone used the B version and that was to avoid Sekka-jin move-prioritizing over everything. Since Jin's early BnB combos involved plugging 2C or 3C, and because of the 5-Frame button holding, players often used Ice Car B to avoid hitting Sekka-Jin. Sekka-Jin only requires 4 buttons presses themselves and often times, players may double tap or the button could register twice, etc. In general it was just easier to sacrifice 90-ish damage for a guaranteed finisher. As far as C Ice Car is concerned in CS... doesn't look possible. C Ice Car has a notable start up time before it hits, but I will check it when I go there today. As far as Jin's air-combos are concerned, anything that worked with the old j.C (now j.2C) will work with the new j.C. Basic air-combo for Jin is j.B > j.C > j.B > j.C > j.D... Even the game's Easy mode uses this basic combo. There really isn't a case where you'll need to use j.2C over j.C in a standard air combo. Though, perhaps the reason it's used is because of pro-ration scaling? does JB>JC/J2C>JD>236D> land> dash> JB> J2C>J2C>214B work still now that ice has been changed and that 236D has less advantage Edit: I've seen some more videos and does 623C(CH)>JB>J2C>J2C>JD>214B not work any more either? 623C doesn't lead to anything anymore. Either Jin has a longer recovery time, opponent is knocked out further, or the opponent simply recovers faster (or a combination of all three). On counter hit, it depends where your opponent is. But you can't do the above combo in either case. In your other combo, are you talking about j.236D? Or just 236D? If its the former, no you can't do that anymore, except maybe in a corner. If its the latter, you might be able to get something out of that (again in a corner). j.236D has pretty massive recovery that, unless you actually on top of your opponent when it hits, you probably can't follow-up with anything.
Brotrr Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 People are comboing off of CH 623C for sure. Kaqn does it plenty of times.
smooshman Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 With regards to Ice Car C in CT, yes you could do it. But there was a reason why everyone used the B version and that was to avoid Sekka-jin move-prioritizing over everything. Since Jin's early BnB combos involved plugging 2C or 3C, and because of the 5-Frame button holding, players often used Ice Car B to avoid hitting Sekka-Jin. Sekka-Jin only requires 4 buttons presses themselves and often times, players may double tap or the button could register twice, etc. In general it was just easier to sacrifice 90-ish damage for a guaranteed finisher. As far as C Ice Car is concerned in CS... doesn't look possible. C Ice Car has a notable start up time before it hits, but I will check it when I go there today. As far as Jin's air-combos are concerned, anything that worked with the old j.C (now j.2C) will work with the new j.C. Basic air-combo for Jin is j.B > j.C > j.B > j.C > j.D... Even the game's Easy mode uses this basic combo. There really isn't a case where you'll need to use j.2C over j.C in a standard air combo. Though, perhaps the reason it's used is because of pro-ration scaling? 623C doesn't lead to anything anymore. Either Jin has a longer recovery time, opponent is knocked out further, or the opponent simply recovers faster (or a combination of all three). On counter hit, it depends where your opponent is. But you can't do the above combo in either case. In your other combo, are you talking about j.236D? Or just 236D? If its the former, no you can't do that anymore, except maybe in a corner. If its the latter, you might be able to get something out of that (again in a corner). j.236D has pretty massive recovery that, unless you actually on top of your opponent when it hits, you probably can't follow-up with anything. it up-scales? that's awesome! well yeah because instead of j214a/b/c/d in the JB>JC>JD you could substitute it for J236D which landed you a few feet away and you dashed and jumped into the standard air combo. so I guess my question is can you 236D land (off a single jump), dash and jump to hit your opponent and air combo? or has the recovery become that atrocious?
Recommended Posts