[CS1] Hakumen Information Thread

[WallJumpMan]

could someone with regular access to cs tell me if anything on enma has changed from ct?

because when i do 5C -> enma -> dustloop using ct timing, they tech out before j.2C, which would lead me to believe the untech time was decreased. but then i tried to alter it and get the j.2C out early, and the 2C whiffs.

Probably is different but ur gonna have to ADAPT

also u have to super jump cancel after 2c into j2a if u want to air dash and get another j2a in

[RageBot]

Anyway, in the mean time: I'm trying to do this combo: 5C xx 623A-236A JC j.2A AD j.2A, j.C And I always miss the j.C, it seems like the opponent is always just below where my j,C would've hit, any help?

[Spark]

could someone with regular access to cs tell me if anything on enma has changed from ct?

because when i do 5C -> enma -> dustloop using ct timing, they tech out before j.2C, which would lead me to believe the untech time was decreased. but then i tried to alter it and get the j.2C out early, and the 2C whiffs.

I actually had that problem for awhile and I think it's because j.2C is slower than it used to be. But, for enma I think the untechable is suppose to be even longer in CS, whether it's because of the system changes or the move actually having more untechable time I'm not entirely sure. I guess I can check tomorrow with CS and CT running side by side.

Edit: I just checked in CT and CS and if you just do Enma and let the other player tech they seem to tech at the same time. I tried checking CT's j.C and CS's j.2C, but it's really hard to tell if there's a difference.

[mAc Chaos]

Are Haku's moves D cancelable now? Something I heard.

[qwerty]

6a and 6b are. also we're gonna have lots of info soon, so much that there might even be a new thread for it.

[SimpleKiss]

6a and 6b are.

also we're gonna have lots of info soon, so much that there might even be a new thread for it.

oh snap.

Now you've got me all excitable now.

[WallJumpMan]

Hakumen Beginner Mode Guide (also one of the biggest wastes of my 20 minutes ever:vbang:)

- The numbers represent joystick postions in the following manner:

7 8 9

4 5 6

1 2 3

- This is the beginner mode arcade button layout

H S T

N

(normals)

4,5,6 N= 4c (from far away)

4,5,6 N= 5c (close up)

1,2,3 N= 3c (from far away)

1,2,3 N= 2b (close up)

J.N= J.c

(super)

Hold N = Shippuu

(normals)

4,5,6 H= 6d

1,2,3 H= 2d

J.H= J.2c

(super)

Hold H= Mugen

(specials)

5 S= kishuu

5 Sx2= enma

6 S= Zantetsu

1,2,3 S= Renka

J.1,2,3 S= Tsubaki

J.4,5,6 S= Hotaru

(throws)

5 T= Ground throw

J.T= Air throw

(combos) (can only be done on hit or block)

1,2,3 Nx4= 2b> gurren> kishuu> enma

J.Nx2= J.c> Tsubaki

J.Hx2= J.2c> Tsubaki

(Astral)

Hold N+H= Akumetsu

(Side notes)

- you have no bursts in beginner mode

- beginner mode is allowed in tourney play (mite change later)

- and if u ever actually go beginner mode on accident.....just pick Tager.....u mite win

[WallJumpMan]

Also 5c> enma> falling J.2C> 5c> 2b> gurren> whatever works but the 2b mite be able to be replaced with another 5c so somebody should go check

[WallJumpMan]

somebody should also check if 2c can actually cut projectiles since for some reason when i try cutting arakune's bell bug thing it wont cut unless i used another c move like j.c or j.2c

[WallJumpMan]

also iirc mugen has a FASTER start up .....if that hasnt already been stated.......QUAD POST

[mAc Chaos]

6a and 6b are.

also we're gonna have lots of info soon, so much that there might even be a new thread for it.

Just 6A and 6B? What about his other normals or specials?

[Spark]

5A, 2A, 6A, 2B, 5B, and 6B are the only ones that can be chained into D. You cannot chain into j.D as far as I know.

[qwerty]

somebody should also check if 2c can actually cut projectiles since for some reason when i try cutting arakune's bell bug thing it wont cut unless i used another c move like j.c or j.2c

2C cuts projectiles, it's just that arakune's clouds aren't projectiles anymore.

if you aren't getting the bell bug with it, you're probably out of range.

[Leonil_Requiem]

does 4C?

[qwerty]

all C moves do, nothing has changed in that regard. you're no longer in hitstop when you slice anything either and you get the projectile barrier blah blah blah

[lolo]

hi everyone, i main ragna and but ill switch to hakumen as soon bbcs console version comes out, and i was wondering whats the timing of hakumens counters, its like a parry on sf3? can i practice it in calamity trigger? thanks

[qwerty]

all of his counters except for 5D have 1 frame of startup, unlike 3s parries which are zero frame. the timing is just something you're gonna have to figure out for yourself, but i guess you can think of it as being similar to parries on principle. just don't expect to be able to option select them for safety or anything.

[lolo]

1- frame its nice , its very quick, thanks, btw some counters still give u 1 metagama?

[SimpleKiss]

Also, it's important to note that Hakumen's counters don't play as big a role in his game than you think they do. dont get me wrong, you gotta know how to use them, and they can be powerful tools. But by no means are they a crutch. Basically, the idea behind Hakumen's parry is to make people scared of putting pressure on you. Parry is more effective when your opponent knows you know how to use it, rather than using it a lot. Hakumen's parries are at their strongest when you've mind fucked your opponent and he's second guessing his offense. That creates opportunities.

[pulsr]

Also, it's important to note that Hakumen's counters don't play as big a role in his game than you think they do.

dont get me wrong, you gotta know how to use them, and they can be powerful tools. But by no means are they a crutch. Basically, the idea behind Hakumen's parry is to make people scared of putting pressure on you. Parry is more effective when your opponent knows you know how to use it, rather than using it a lot.

Hakumen's parries are at their strongest when you've mind fucked your opponent and he's second guessing his offense. That creates opportunities.

If you can react to overheads, you can counter overheads. Tager loses a lot of his game against Hakumen because 95% of Tager's normals are 6Dable on reaction.

6D is a lot of fear if you have the reactions counting he can kill you out right if he lands a 6D and has 8 Orbs.

[Leonil_Requiem]

when it says 1 frame, it means it has not start up. and counter play a large part in 50% of his match ups. Counter take away you opponents ability to establish any type of oki. It also takes at your opponents ability to establish any type of false pressure, a lot of so called "block-strings", have openings at curtain links. Also, you have full invincibility the whole way through if they activate the counter. Ergo, for oki supers and moves like litchis multiple staff pressures, counter. Also j.D is an amazing tool in the next game. easy combo, technically, it's your best counter. hyper-jumping and canceling it crazy close to the ground to counter ground moves and land not be counter hit after the landing, it's your safest one to. And counters are their strongest when you know what your doing xD

[SimpleKiss]

If you can react to overheads, you can counter overheads. Tager loses a lot of his game against Hakumen because 95% of Tager's normals are 6Dable on reaction.

6D is a lot of fear if you have the reactions counting he can kill you out right if he lands a 6D and has 8 Orbs.

This is Tager we're talking bout.

Tager. Tager vs Hakumen is so unfair. as you said. 90% of the shit Tager throws out can be D'd on reaction.

Oh and as for Litchi: I've straight up Counter'd her ass and still been counterhit by her supers. Just FYI.

[mAc Chaos]

I thought Tager v Haku was in Tager's favor, or at least close... I mean, you could D all his stuff in CT too.

[SimpleKiss]

I thought Tager v Haku was in Tager's favor, or at least close... I mean, you could D all his stuff in CT too.

If you stay at range and poke at tager, there's like, literally nothing he can do about it.

I guess it's in tager's favor if you fuck up and eat a command grab.. then it can quickly snowball. But if you zone him, he's fucked. I don't see that changing in CS. in fact I see it worse cuz of 4c and j.c.

Honestly what is tager gonna do to stop those two moves?

[mAc Chaos]

In that case, check these out and see what you can tell me.