agp24 Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 I want to get one thing straight. Tales of games and Star Ocean 3 are not turn based, so I actually need to move around and plan my attacks. Besides, they both involve combos. :/ As for the whole "Magical quest" thing... That's vague enough that you could say that about any sort of media with magic in it. Harry Potter was just some magical kid gaining friends and going on a quest. Lord of the Rings was the epitome of that EXACT statement. Are you going to tell me Lord of the Rings was boring and played out? That's what it seems like you're saying, to me. SFtMtG would've still blown with a good story, because it was a FIGHTING GAME. It wasn't made for the story. You don't pick up a fighting game if you want a story based game, you pick up a fucking RPG. RPGs are there for the story and the plot twists. As for just pressing attack every five minutes, I've already expressed my hate of the FF series many, many times. Play an SMT game and tell me that's just pressing attack every 5 minutes. It's still a turn based RPG, but if you don't actually think and use strategy, you will die a horrible death. /endrant
Vierge Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Well I personally am a huge fan of RPGs, and I'd like to defend my opinion; despite not being a great debater or even good at organizing my thoughts- This is why Blazblue is so epic. It has a great (albeit weird) story with deep characters deep characters .......You know what, to each their own. Not everyone likes the same colors, clothes, food, or video games. Whatever.
Fraga Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Guys, Shaq-Fu had the best Fighting Game story of all time. Admit it. /sarcasm I'm indifferent for RPGs, I like some, dislike others. Final Fantasy for example is overrated, but FFIX is pure brilliance, but I hate FFVII (Overrated and not that great in general). I like Guild Wars (Has a very good story) but hate WoW (RETCONS ARE OK). I love Persona 2 but don't like Devil Summoner 1 (Incoming rage). It's all preference. Sometimes story in a fighting game is good, like Blazblue (I throughly enjoyed it) and Melty Blood (There IS a story people). But for other games like SSF4 (durr), MvC2, story doesn't matter, it's gameplay. Having a good story is just an extra plus for it.
Mystic Eyes Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 You guys realize that Mike is just trolling you all, right? Rather successfully too. XD When it all comes down to it, we're all fucked up individuals who have our own fucking tastes, and the fact of the matter is, the RPG is it's own genre that does well for a reason: A lot of people enjoy them. Why do you think so many people play fuckin' Farmville on Facebook, or Mafia Wars? They're great (read: debatably, I don't actually think they are great) time wasters. RPG's are generally time sinks-no BLACK HOLES, especially when it comes to SMT or Disgaea. When it comes to immersion, I...have no idea how it works but it either does, or it doesn't. It just depends on the quality of the game in general. Good games grip you, bad games push you away. That's all there is to it. Any game can immerse you in it, from a FIFA game to a shooter, it doesn't have to be a RPG. Also, there's two types of RPG, generally. There's the Western RPG, which are the Oblivions and Fallouts (inb4fallout3isoblivion1.5). And then there's Japanese RPG, which is the '90% of all RPG star boring blah blah heroes' or however you put it. And even then, that's an over generalization. You have to realize that Japan loves that shit, and they send it over to us because there are people here who do like it, but the sales won't ever be as good because they usually make it with a Japanese audience in mind (don't quote me on that). Also, some people just really like the micromanagement, though those who love it too much play Starcraft against Koreans (or are Koreans themselves.) Some people love watching the progression of their characters getting stronger, watching their attacks do that extra five damage added from leveling up, or the extra flame effect because of their super-duper sword and armor. When it all comes down to it, it's just Different Strokes for Different Folks. Hate on RPGs all the fuck you want, (not you specifically, Mike, but everyone who shares your opinion) but there is always gonna be people who enjoy them. They aren't begging you to join them, so you don't have to. Don't go out of your way to be a hater, like you are, respect people's opinions and they'll have a heightened chance of respecting yours, and enjoy the other various genres of video games. That being said, I don't know what sparked the argument, but I hope it wasn't my absence, since it was my 21st birthday and I was too busy winning more money at the casino than I'd ever win at the BG Also, if I came across as too harsh, I apologize, I just got home from work and didn't expect to see so much hatin'.
Why-Disciple Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I want to get one thing straight. Tales of games and Star Ocean 3 are not turn based, so I actually need to move around and plan my attacks. Besides, they both involve combos. :/ As for the whole "Magical quest" thing... That's vague enough that you could say that about any sort of media with magic in it. Harry Potter was just some magical kid gaining friends and going on a quest. Lord of the Rings was the epitome of that EXACT statement. Are you going to tell me Lord of the Rings was boring and played out? That's what it seems like you're saying, to me. SFtMtG would've still blown with a good story, because it was a FIGHTING GAME. It wasn't made for the story. You don't pick up a fighting game if you want a story based game, you pick up a fucking RPG. RPGs are there for the story and the plot twists. As for just pressing attack every five minutes, I've already expressed my hate of the FF series many, many times. Play an SMT game and tell me that's just pressing attack every 5 minutes. It's still a turn based RPG, but if you don't actually think and use strategy, you will die a horrible death. /endrant Well, my point is, if RPGs are just there for story, why do you need to PLAY an RPG to get a good story? Why not watch the cutscenes on youtube and save money and time? Again, why not relax and watch a damn movie? If the story matters more than the game itself, why bother playing the game? As for the story stereotype, I guess I'm mostly basing it on Final Fantasy, and a few others like Shining Force, so sure, I might be misinformed. I own FFX and when I played it years ago, it took way too damn long to get nowhere in the storyline, so that throws the argument of "enjoying the ride" out the window for me. Is a good story worth waiting through five hours of bullshit? And I have nothing against action RPGs (assuming they're done right, but either way I still don't really like them) or strategy games, Risk and Stratego are always fun, but why is a story so damn necessary? Would you still give a shit if they didn't have stories? Gain Ground and Herzog Zwei were excellent strategy games back in the day when games mattered, and they had no story. One more thing, if games like Dynasty Warriors had RPG like stories, would you forget all about RPGs and start playing DW-esque games instead? I mean, yeah, to each his own, but... I just can't conceive of why people like these games. They're just so damn slow, and the "good story" is just a bullshit excuse to me.
Mystic Eyes Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Don't worry about it, Mike. Just don't. Don't worry, be happy, play the games you like.
Why-Disciple Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 NO! I HAVE TO KNOW WHY I'M THE ONLY ONE THAT DOESN'T GET IT! I HAVE TO KNOW WHY I'M WRONG! I HAVE TO PROVE MY POINT! GODDAMMIT WHY ARE RPGS SO GOOD? FUCK! Oh, and how was your day, man?
Mystic Eyes Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 My day was boring up until I went to the casino. I'm sorry I missed your call, you're not allowed to use your cell phone at the Blackjack table. My dad gave me a hundred and a buddy gave me 20, and I turned that into $255, and walked away. I hope I don't go back anytime soon. ^_^;; I tried calling you back around 9:35 but you never answered. Oh well.
agp24 Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I think we just need to agree to disagree, Why Disciple. I hate FPS games with a passion and wish they had never even been concieved(Except TF2. TF2 is win.), and yet, people love them. The important thing is that we all hate Mahvel. >_>
Fraga Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Why do you think so many people play fuckin' Farmville on Facebook, or Mafia Wars? They're great Stopped reading right there, I require a short version
Vierge Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Well, I think the point we're not really getting to is that RPG are, literally, Role Playing games. It's not solely about the story, but the experience of yourself being involved with the story. In a game, you as the player get to directly interact with the world they created and talk to the inhabitants all first hand. You get to know the characters and interact with them firsthandedly through the means of main character. It's an experience that expands a lot of media. You interact with characters and watch them grow and develop (hopefully). Personally, I don't need 'fast' game play to keep me interested. That is just a personally preference. RPGs help me relax, I like to sit and think about my decisions before I make them. So I don't just, you know, mash x until I win. But, uh, I dunno. I'm not much a debater. I guess I'm just....trying to see if I can share my point of view. I don't wanna sound I like I'm spr srs. But I guess it all boils down to the fact that I like the expierence of being able to explore a world and get to know characters and be a part of a story. I also don't have my friends and don't get outside much. So it could just be that. Herp. EDIT: Oh, And happy belated Kyle! glad you had fun and made moneh at the casino.
Furok Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 That's another point- when you say you want to be immersed in the game, define immersed. As in, feel like you're a part of the game? If you're talking about watching cutscenes, they're cutscenes, something every game has. Maybe the story continues during combat, but so does, uh, every other game, again, like MGS or Batman. If you're talking about feeling like you are the actual character, again, games like Blazblue give you the same opportunity to control where the story goes. Not sure how many RPGs do that. Also, may I suggest Heavy Rain? That's an excellent story with lots of twists, and is more immersive than any RPG I've played, hell more than any GAME I've played. Porn games are pretty immersive. More importantly, BBCS will be at BG on July 2nd if Play-Asia ships it on time.
Why-Disciple Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Well, I think the point we're not really getting to is that RPG are, literally, Role Playing games. It's not solely about the story, but the experience of yourself being involved with the story. In a game, you as the player get to directly interact with the world they created and talk to the inhabitants all first hand. You get to know the characters and interact with them firsthandedly through the means of main character. It's an experience that expands a lot of media. You interact with characters and watch them grow and develop (hopefully). That's all well and good, but why does it have to be an RPG? IIRC, Fallout 3 was like this but it was more of a shooter with some RPG elements- it wasn't all random battles and clicking attack. That feels more like your telling the character what to do instead of playing as him through his own eyes. Like I said, if Dynasty Warriors had the story/deep characters/immersiveness of an RPG, would you play that instead? Sorry if I'm talking about this too much, but this has been on my mind for the past year and a half.
agp24 Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Actually, Dynasty Warriors does have a good story. The games themselves don't, but the Three Kingdoms era of China is one of my favorite points in history. :P I need to get one thing straight before I go further in this debate, though... Are you talking all RPGs, or just jRPGS? Because if wRPGs are included, then I'm ending the discussion here and now. wRPGs are played because you get to affect the entire story and lore of the world around you in whatever way you please. Morrowind is a great example of this, and is a great game in general. Actually, I think I might go play that right now.
Mystic Eyes Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Actually, Dynasty Warriors does have a good story. The games themselves don't, but the Three Kingdoms era of China is one of my favorite points in history. :P I need to get one thing straight before I go further in this debate, though... Are you talking all RPGs, or just jRPGS? Because if wRPGs are included, then I'm ending the discussion here and now. wRPGs are played because you get to affect the entire story and lore of the world around you in whatever way you please. Morrowind is a great example of this, and is a great game in general. Actually, I think I might go play that right now. No you won't, you're too busy fapping to Star Ocean. And thanks for the birthday wishes. ^_^
Why-Disciple Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I don't know how wRPGs differ, so sure, jRPGs. Again, if it's an Action RPG or Strat game, I have no problem. It's the combat and management systems that I find to be the epitome of all things pointlessly boring. Why tell the guy to attack or use magic instead of taking control and actually attacking? I'll propose my question again: if a game were to be made that was just as immersive as an RPG (jRPG, whatever), but utilized DW style combat mechanics, would you play it instead of an RPG?
Mystic Eyes Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Something like that has already been made, it's called Kingdom Hearts.
Why-Disciple Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 That's an Action RPG. It still has the menus and management bull. I'm talking like a DMC/GoW game with "immersiveness."
Mystic Eyes Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 You said Dynasty Warriors. And even in DMC and GoW, you 'level up' and change your equipment, just like in Dynasty Warriors. Kingdom Hearts is the same way. You attack, change your skills, learn more, level up, change your weapon, and there you go. And you don't even sound like you've played the game.
Why-Disciple Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 DW has leveling up, skill changing, etc as well. GoW doesn't have potions or spaceships you have to build. Good lord, it's a simple question I wanted answered!
Mystic Eyes Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 It's because the question your asking is dumb. If the game is good, people are going to play it. Those who play it first, are probably going to be people who like both Dynasty Warriors and RPG's. Is it really that hard to understand?
Zoob Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Also, thinking about going down on Friday. Who's showing up?
Why-Disciple Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 It's because the question your asking is dumb. If the game is good, people are going to play it. Those who play it first, are probably going to be people who like both Dynasty Warriors and RPG's. Is it really that hard to understand? My question is not if you would play it, but if you would prefer it. If immersiveness is what the people want, then I want to confirm that the combat and management don't matter. But whatever, fuck it, this discussion isn't going anywhere, so I know when to quit and change the subject.
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