[CS1] Noel Guide

[bmore303]

Carl could range from 4.5 to 5.0 never in our favor though. He'll almost always beat Noel in the air(FAYTALL), and on the ground is a matter of not getting trapped with Aida. Noel can pressure the hell out of Carl in the right situations and end the round in 2 combos or so. A cornered Carl is a panicked Carl almost always. Just know when to fall back when Aida is called in range. I've ended rounds with sudden Optic Barrels if used rarely because for some reason Carls start to rush pressure.

Tager ... this debate will never end. I don't think it's THAT lopsided. I honestly think it's even 5/5, but many will disagree. It's obvious Noel needs A LOT of opportunities in this match-up, but again it depends on who's playing. I'll accept the 4-6 for general rating =\

Jin..I dunno 4.5-5 or 5-5 he beats you in the air and his invincibility frames on the ground can be a pain(online). Offline he's much easier to handle and easily baited and left wide open for Noel's setups. At the same time a single rush down from Noel can get turned around with a single reverse throw leading to a 5k corner combo from Jin.

Makoto...DP..236A..enough for a .5 advantage over Noel.

Ragna, in terms of overall ability in moves, yeah he is hands down 4-6 better, but this again is a match-up I believe can be easily turned to a 5-5 by just playing with common sense. Ragna just plain excels in a lot of areas Noel does not, but Ragna is so cookie cutter, that Noel can easily poke through / counter his bs.

Taokaka, A close friend of mine plays Tao and you'd think this was 5.5-4.5 in Noel's favor in a lot of Tao player's eyes. I call it 5-5 or 4.5-5.5. Tao's mixups are just as lacking as Noel's and fairly predictable. Not only that but some of the more common Tao block strings have blaring gaps that let Noel slide in a 4D fatal and we all love 4D fatals. Now the next problem is both of these characters are utterly horrible at guard breaking, period. BUT Noel gains a nice amount of heat easily with her simpler bnb combos. In a battle of guard breaks, Noel wins hands down even if it requires RC's to remain safe. Losing guard libra to Tao is pretty damn difficult to do unless you don't know the match-up. Why Tao is clearly higher tier? She still can mix you up much safer than Noel ever will be able to dream of doing, she can get out of situations much more quickly than the entire cast, and lol taunt loop into any corner from anywhere. Noel does have a slight range advantage with 5B and 5C, but the downside is that Tao can crawl ._. or you won't net a combo worth mentioning if they connect.

Tsubaki, this character is so rare that if I do stumble across a player that knows how to user her with proper block strings and combos I don't know where to block simply because of lack of experience. No Comment, but I'll take 5.5-4.5 from what I know of trying Tsubaki myself.

Valk, haven't played a decent one yet

Mu-12, this is another one of those 5-5 to 4-6 depending on the layout and positioning. If you aren't prepared Mu will look like a complete ass-whooping waiting to happen. If you play omg RUSHDATSHIT / BAITDATDP you'll be fine. Kinda like CT Rachel, don't let the cunt breathe for a second or suffer the consequences. Don't be overzealous or again suffer the consequences. One of those type of matches... 4.5-5 is probably good placement simply because zoning characters make Noel work even harder.

Basically I'm siding with you on just about all of those. If we were to debate just on the tools of each character than I'd probably agree 100% on each one. Noel is lacking in the tools department, but at the same time if you know your match-ups and the mechanics of your opponents you can hold your own just fine. I honestly have more trouble just fighting mirror Noels because I expect too much now.

[DC]

I don't think you're reading his list right, the number on the left is Noel.

lmao I wish it were the other way around.

Anyways I'm thinking Litchi is more likely 6.5/3.5 because of the way her DP works and how meaty her staff is. I can't seem to IB 5d or 2d through anything and her DP never seems to clash with Chain Revolver like ID. She pretty much negates Chain Revolver like Tager does, but does more damage than he can. At least I can CA of her corner pressure. I really miss than 5k haida from airgrab in CT, but then again I wouldn't recommend pressing buttons in the air against her. :p

[Mizzet]

I personally find Lambda a solid 5:5, Noel's mobility is actually usable in this matchup and there are a lot of shenanigans specific to this matchup. For example after all her combos ending in j.214d, if they're greedy and try and setup 214d for more pressure, just air tech + iad j.d, free combo. Meh 0.5's not much of a difference anyway.

[dragontamer]

Arakune - 4/6

Out of Curse mode, Arakune vs Noel is clearly in Noel's favor. In Curse mode, its heavily towards Arakune's favor (erm... one hit, you're dead in a capable Arakune's hands). Arakune just doesn't seem nearly as slippery as he used to be.

I dunno, its easier to play Arakune than Litchi / Bang. I dunno if this means to bring Bang / Litchi to 3.5 / 6.5 or to bring Arakune down to 4.5/6. But Arakune is much easier to play against than Litchi / Bang / Tager. Arakune's only real tool vs Noel is j.B now. Optic Barrel C out-ranges Kune's 2D. He's still a bitch in the air, but I don't feel quite as hopeless as wtf Litchi's j.B or Bang's... anything. As good as Arakune's airgame is, he doesn't have one move that takes out both Noel's 6A and Noel's j.B like Litchi's j.B. (And 4D / 5D stopped working as soon as Litchi's figured out j.B -> land -> 5B.)

Still definitely in Arakune's favor, but its definitely not as bad as Litchi. EDIT: I read some of your later posts: moving Litchi to 3.5 / 6.5 would reflect my feelings perfectly.

Jin - 5/5

Sounds about right actually. Jin is the most fair matchup in the game for Noel.

Taokaka - 4/6

My Taokaka matchup is lacking. Do you have any reasons for the 4/6 matchup?

Valkenhayn - ? (Gonna take a wild guess and say 4/6)

Valkenhayn is starting to look a bit overpowered from what I can see. Either that, or I simply don't understand his pressure yet. Maybe there are more holes in his pressure strings and I'm just not used to him yet...

[DC]

Noel's absolute worst weakness is ground to air closely followed by air to air. Her AAs are terrible and her air to air hitboxes are nearly useless. Characters like Arakune and Taokaka who spend most of the time in the air have a field day with Noel. If a Tao or Kune player is trying to mix you up on the ground they are playing the matchup wrong. Noel can't touch Tao, and even if she does, she'll never convert lucky air hits into actual damage. Same thing for Arakune to a lesser extent.

I personally find Lambda a solid 5:5, Noel's mobility is actually usable in this matchup and there are a lot of shenanigans specific to this matchup. For example after all her combos ending in j.214d, if they're greedy and try and setup 214d for more pressure, just air tech + iad j.d, free combo. Meh 0.5's not much of a difference anyway.

If she had one more primer and Lambda didn't have a DP I'd say 5/5, but I can't agree. IAD j.d? Possibly if 214d had some sort of recovery lol. You can't even punish it with air super.

214d shits on Noel in the matchup. If a Lambda player is out to break your guard and knows the matchup then you will get guard broken.

[dragontamer]

If she had one more primer and Lambda didn't have a DP I'd say 5/5, but I can't agree. IAD j.d? Possibly if 214d had some sort of recovery lol. You can't even punish it with air super.

214d shits on Noel in the matchup. If a Lambda player is out to break your guard and knows the matchup then you will get guard broken.

Noel wants her old j.C back... the one with the hitbox that beat 214D :-(

[bmore303]

Hmm Optic Barrel clashes with Lambda's 214D saving your primers / barrier. At the same time you sacrifice any possible mobility options you could have attempted though =\ .

Tao - True, air to air you really can't do anything but poke her down with J.a which may net you a 1.6k combo or so =| . Other than that it's an experience matchup. Noel's 6A aa is even more ass in this match because the timing is way more strict.

Litchi - Thing is this match has two sides, with staff and without staff. CHANCES ARE if you're playing the likes of LK they're NOT going staffless for no reason. Which case I'll call it 3.5 . Without staff Noel still can't pull an air approach unless you gain a height advantage and somehow pull a connecting j.d out your ass. How you do this against a decent Litchi who knows. 3.5 with staff ... 4 without since Noel's opportunities open up exponentially.

[NoirMorpheus]

i can bait Hakumen pretty well online...I think Noel/Hakumen is more 5/5 than 4/6

[NoirMorpheus]

And the Makoto matchup is definitely 5/5....A good noel will not let makoto get too close

[NoirMorpheus]

Eh and the Valkyenhans I played either rape noel or just get countered by her alot so I'm gonna say 4.5/5 for Noel/Valkenhayn

[Chiizu]

Uhhh, it doesn't add up.

And seriously Valkenhayn and his freaking long active frame moves is bloody annoying. Either the Valk player is crap when i do win or i get countered all day and outpoked (which occurs against every other character in the cast, gotta admit it)

And for God's (in other words, my) sake, couldn't you edit your first message instead of triple posting? Sorry if i'm annoying but this is a thing that ticks me off.

And BTW, online play is absolutely NOT representative of how people play offline. Believe me, offline it's much more 6.5/3.5 in Hakumen's favor, especially since Noel's drives are so bloody easy to counter into half your life vanishing in the blink of an eye.

[FunkyP]

If she had one more primer and Lambda didn't have a DP I'd say 5/5, but I can't agree. IAD j.d? Possibly if 214d had some sort of recovery lol. You can't even punish it with air super.

214d shits on Noel in the matchup. If a Lambda player is out to break your guard and knows the matchup then you will get guard broken.

Normally I've been trying to ignore these posts, but seriously you are spreading a lot of misinformation. Seriously if you don't know how to play Noel dont go telling actual noel players what she can or cannot do.

Lambda is one of Noel's more manageable matchups, easily 5/5. So lambda has like one of the weakest DP's in the game, how the hell does that make that matchup in her favor? Learn to bait it and stop mashing on her wakeup, a well timed 2D eats that DP and gets a beefy CH. 214D has a bajillion years of startup, learn to react to the startup animation, its long as fuck.

[bmore303]

And BTW, online play is absolutely NOT representative of how people play offline. Believe me, offline it's much more 6.5/3.5 in Hakumen's favor, especially since Noel's drives are so bloody easy to counter into half your life vanishing in the blink of an eye.

This .... 5/5 my ass...this match-up is not simple offline. 4/6 in Haku's favor is fine by me.

Played some Valks online today for the first time. One was pretty decent and gave me trouble. His range is superior as well as damage potential. The upside, his block strings THUS FAR are worse than Noel's. Almost everyone strings in his charging shoulder attack if you barrier him out a bit and there are a lot of other unsafe holes I'm seeing. All of which allow 4D through even without IB. Hell I've slid a 2D into super because he's so slow. Not only that, but in a battle of approach if he goes wolf PUNISH! He can't back down unless he cancels and for a moment he can't go into barrier. Not even gonna attempt to name a match-up on this until I see some decent offline Valks locally hopefully.

Like I said before, why doesn't anyone know that optic barrel stops Lambda's 214D >_< . If anything a B or C version will leave plenty of time to block any further attacks from her.

[Heroic_Legacy]

You can 5C and beat Lambda's 214D.

[DC]

Normally I've been trying to ignore these posts, but seriously you are spreading a lot of misinformation. Seriously if you don't know how to play Noel dont go telling actual noel players what she can or cannot do.

Lambda is one of Noel's more manageable matchups, easily 5/5. So lambda has like one of the weakest DP's in the game, how the hell does that make that matchup in her favor? Learn to bait it and stop mashing on her wakeup, a well timed 2D eats that DP and gets a beefy CH. 214D has a bajillion years of startup, learn to react to the startup animation, its long as fuck.

lol shut the fuck up you goddamn idiot. Who the fuck are you? A character having a DP always has an advantage over Chain Revolver. The idea is that having a frame 1 iframe attack gimps Noel's mixup more than it already is. I'm not talking about wakeup fucking DPs you stupid fuck.

[dragontamer]

Normally I've been trying to ignore these posts, but seriously you are spreading a lot of misinformation. Seriously if you don't know how to play Noel dont go telling actual noel players what she can or cannot do.

Lambda is one of Noel's more manageable matchups, easily 5/5. So lambda has like one of the weakest DP's in the game, how the hell does that make that matchup in her favor? Learn to bait it and stop mashing on her wakeup, a well timed 2D eats that DP and gets a beefy CH. 214D has a bajillion years of startup, learn to react to the startup animation, its long as fuck.

Whats the correct reaction to 214D ??

If I jump-in, Lambda recovers in time for 2C / 6A. Sure, I can barrier block, but thats still giving the pressure game to Lambda.

If I jump over it (but far away), Lambda recovers in time for 6D / 2D. Again, pressure game is to Lambda's advantage.

If I block, Lambda gets a guard primer and a bajillion frame advantage.

Optic Barrel and 5C seem to give Lambda the offensive.

Clearly, jumping is the right option. Better Lamdas don't seem to 214D when I can super-jump over them in one go... and Instant Air Dashes don't seem like a good idea with 214D either. I guess if they 214D as close range pressure, thats their mistake and I can punish (super-jump... so I have an extra jump to attempt to bait their 6A / 2C at least)

I do agree that Lambda / Noel is one of Noel's better matchups. I'd be willing to agree with 5/5... but I'm more interested in this debate / reasoning. What can Noel do when you see the 214D comming?

[LunaKage]

The Lambda match-up is pretty stupid, if she gets you at 5D range, she gets free 214D pressure, at best you can jump over it, blocking her swords on the way down, theres no where near enough time to dash in and hit her with anything, you might trade, but the trade would still be in Lambda's favor. This match-up would be alot easier if you could IAD > Barrier instantly.

[Heroic_Legacy]

What can Noel do when you see the 214D comming

3C.

Either

A. you beat Lambda clean and combo her

B. You kill the projectile with 3C and hopefully mash 5D in time to not get hit by whatever button Lambda is mashing

C. You did it too late and ate 214D CH.

Don't say too risky, it's feasible.

[Mizzet]

If you respond quickly enough, you can just optic barrel Lambda out of it, or time it so it clashes with the projectile if Lambda doesn't happen to be in one of the a/b/c spots and you don't have time to adjust. In most cases it's not so bad that trying it will get you CH 5d'd by Lambda or something, that would be a really late optic barrel and at that point you're best off just super jumping to avoid it.

214d eats up iad's when it's out because of it's height, but it has pretty long startup so if you airtech and your opponent went for 214d but timed it wrong, iad j.d will connect. If you were a little slow and you're about to smack into the 214d projectile, iad j.4d actually works too.

Also once you get 50 meter the Lambda has to be very careful about 214d because you can just j.236236d on reaction, you have time to iad or jump to space yourself for it to connect if you react quick enough to 214d.

236b/236c isn't free for Lambda, while it's almost even on block, Noel's iad airthrow will catch them if they jump back and if they backdashed that iad should have you falling in their face for more pressure. Both can be 5d'd on reaction too, there's a timing of course but it's not too strict.

Wakeup Fenrir will guard point 5d pressure and the bullets will hit Lambda in her recovery. It's not a wakeup ultra kind of guessing thing, get a good read on your opponent's pressuring habits, and watch for Lambda's 5d startup animation.

Oh and don't forget to block after teching an airthrow, some Lambda's will try and sneak in j.dd 214d after the tech because you're put at just the right distance for it.

[DC]

lol did someone just suggest use 3c against 214d

anyways, optic barrel is viable but only if you're already in range because dash optic barrel will usually trade with charged 214d (depending on how far you dashed)

I wouldn't bother shooting the wall because by the time it's moving, you shoot and optic barrel appears she's already out of recovery.

Dash airsuper doesn't ever work for me. I THINK what happens is the first hits of my air super cancel with spike chaser and she's able to block in time but idk she's off screen. I've only had it hit maybe a few times out of 50 tries so I stopped wasting my meter.

Assault Through goes through 214d when timed right but it's really not that useful.

None of her other options are a big deal imo, I love 5d through parser, hate iad backwards j.2dd j214d. Chain Revolver pressure is gimped a bit and having 4 guard primers (but less mobility options that other characters with 4) is what makes it 55/45 imo.

[FunkyP]

Optic barrel is too slow, only use it if you know 214D is coming(which most of the time is kinda obvious).

Super jump forward, back, or neutral and block to avoid losing a primer, Lamba has seriously weak pressure thats vulnerable to drives or jabs. If she throws another thats her mistake. Dont be afraid of her because you have no reason to. Don't overestimate the matchup it'll only give her that advantage.

[bmore303]

^That's all there is to it, either S.j + double jump over 214D or shoot it and save barrier. Approach cautiously

[2 GB Combo]

Fun 4D FC combo for you guys.

4D FC, d.6C, 2D, 5D, d.5C, 2147A, 2B, 6C, 22C(slight delay), dash 6C, 2D(slight delay), 623D, dash 6C, sj.D, 6D, d.5C, j.d(delay), land super.

This combo does around 6k-6.2k depending on how many hits d.6C does. It is also pretty much universal on everybody except Makoto, and maybe Valkenhayn, but I haven't been able to test it on him as I have an xbox.

Note: Just to avoid confusion, when I mean 22C(slight delay), I mean slightly delay the 22C.

[dragontamer]

I haven't tested this yet, but I generally get better results from j.D -> d.6B -> 632146D. Its more stable IMO. You haven't used d.6B yet in that combo, so it won't give you much proration

[Mizzet]

I've been doing j.d d.6b Fenrir too instead of j.d Fenrir since you pointed out it was possible, tiny bit more damage than just j.d straight to Fenrir and I haven't come across any case where the opponent techs before d.6b.

On a kind of related note, I noticed unlimited Noel's d.6b is her CT d.6b in terms of it's knockback. It knocks people downwards instead of away and you can Fenrir after that even if you did it to someone in the air like her old CT drive loop (6b 5c 6b 5c).