LordSpectreX Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Not defensive, evasive. So jump around summoning clouds? While dodging his attacks? Sorry, I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what you're advising me with. Are there any videos of Arakune's beating good Tsubakis? All the ones I saw were when the Tsubaki was awful or when the Arakune gets beaten. Usually quite badly. Not to mention a lot of them are old. I'd appriciate it. Thanks.
Abyss Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 Evasive mean take the control of space with your movement (that's how i understand it). For example, you do a super jump forward: You have the ability to attack if the adversary doesn't move, you can catch him even if he try to cross-down you, and you can land everywhere, you just have to space right your airdash cancel. The thing is also he doesn't know if you're going to rush him directly or before doing a double jump, go back etc... It's a very good thing to do i think, because you can really analyze the opponent reaction. But don't just do that of course.
LordSpectreX Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 I get it. Yeah, I noticed after watching some Arakunes that I don't Airdash in the air as much as I should. When I jump, it's usually to either J.D/Summon a cloud, do IAD J.b, fake-out, or get out of pressure. Btw, against rushdown characters like Tsubaki, should I be summoning clouds or using J.D high in the air? Cause I noticed that while doing those low is useful in zoning matches (Hazama/Lambda), it seems to give them more time to punish me as I can't cancel them into an air and I have to land (and recover land) before I can block.
Abyss Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 Well, you have to found how the opponent react. In general, i use a lot of airdash cancel, it help me to spacing and the adversary has to anti-air very early. so when i do a super jump they whiff the anti-air and i punish. Summoning cloud isn't a good thing if you don't have the advantage. I think against rushdown character you must have done a 5A>6B j6D before putting a cloud or a bell. By the way, why do you want to do a jD high in the air? it's unsafe as hell. if this isn't for baiting anti-air, use it very close to the ground. I've heard by Smezel you're a "zoning" Arakune, I guess that's why you have problem with rushdown character, but you must be in advantage before going for zoning.
LordSpectreX Posted April 9, 2011 Posted April 9, 2011 (edited) Well, you have to found how the opponent react. In general, i use a lot of airdash cancel, it help me to spacing and the adversary has to anti-air very early. so when i do a super jump they whiff the anti-air and i punish. Summoning cloud isn't a good thing if you don't have the advantage. I think against rushdown character you must have done a 5A>6B j6D before putting a cloud or a bell. By the way, why do you want to do a jD high in the air? it's unsafe as hell. if this isn't for baiting anti-air, use it very close to the ground. I've heard by Smezel you're a "zoning" Arakune, I guess that's why you have problem with rushdown character, but you must be in advantage before going for zoning. Thing is, being evasive isn't really something I get. I mean, If I'm supposed to be rushing her down constantly because zoning is stupid and just gives her 5 charge, then how am I supposed to do that when J.B gets beaten except when I do it very close to the ground? Plus, my mixup from J.B sucks because I can never get J.B > 2A > 5B > 5D to connect on Tsubaki. CS2 maybe, but ugh. But the real problem is is that I don't know what I should be doing. Even against Lambda, I know what I need to be doing. It's hard, but I know what it is. Tsubaki, I have no clue about how my rushdown should work, how much I should zone her, whether I should be passive or aggressive, whether clouds are essential or a hinderence, if I should stay high or low in the air, or keep my ground etc etc. Which is why I'm asking this in a video discussion thread. What I need is a video of how an Arakune should be playing against Tsubaki, even if he loses. But all the videos I see, either the Arakune does stupid things (like me), or the Tsubaki is terrible. Edited April 9, 2011 by LordSpectreX
Abyss Posted April 9, 2011 Posted April 9, 2011 Maybe it's just me, but i think you have a game plan too predefined. It might be why you get a lot of problem to be unpredictable. I don't have a video right now, but experience is your best way to understand the fight.
kousaka Posted April 9, 2011 Posted April 9, 2011 there isn't really a set way to play against tsubaki... but in my experience i've only noticed two styles in this matchup.. the tsubaki players that rtsd and the ones that charge up first then look for openings to get CH 1) ones that rtsd (people with no kune xp) -basically keep running away and zoning.. 6d bell bug + 2d spit.. lots of clouds.. get curse.. mixup.. 100% life 2) ones that zone and charge (understand arakune's zoning tools) -basically you can't hit them while they charge in the air unless your mid distance away... and once they've charged up you have to be extremely careful as they can punish badly placed clouds -i typically stay mid distance and fish for mistakes.. don't just jB at them because tsubaki's anti air is godlike.. you can bait with feints and jD's all you want but i've seen this thing do some crazy things.. -you may find that you can't find a mistake to punish for 100% curse or they basically eat a cloud on purpose and runaway during the whole curse and you failed to catch them because they had lots of charged bar to counter assault and run around... i basically go for timeout.. seriously i have some vids of this matchup but they're pretty old.. almost from cs1 arcade release time.. and i haven't faced a tsubaki player in a long long time in cs1
Skye Posted April 12, 2011 Author Posted April 12, 2011 Our local Tsubaki (or used to be) was damn good. Grendy fits the latter description. If you're gonna bait with j.d make sure you're high in the air or directly above her, fake outs aren't too reliable. Just maintain your air bubble, make Tsubaki come to you, her pressure is fairly weak and easily backdash-able, you biggest problem is going to be 236d, so don't get too comfy doing things fullscreen, stay in the air and just focus on making it hell for Tsubaki to get in.
Senkei Posted April 16, 2011 Posted April 16, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qHpaGcbktw No practice and Zero Litchi exp makes for an embarrassing vid. Oh wells and yes I know I am way to aggressive lol. btw.... fuck litchi
kousaka Posted April 16, 2011 Posted April 16, 2011 that wasn't as bad as you think.. mostly tokido dropping combos and getting resets...minor tips that might help you though: General -j6a air to air : try and squeeze curse out from it more instead of doing wheel -use more clouds -if you carry them to wall with wheel, you can catch roll outs with 2b Matchup -litchi dominates with jB/jC air to air so press less buttons in the air -careful of litchi 2c (death zone), you have to know the angles -litchi has same speed jump as arakune in cs1, so you can't abuse your "blocked normal jump cancel iad air throw" setup on her too much as she can air throw you But overall your arakune is very good.
LordSpectreX Posted April 16, 2011 Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) Our local Tsubaki (or used to be) was damn good. Grendy fits the latter description. If you're gonna bait with j.d make sure you're high in the air or directly above her, fake outs aren't too reliable. Just maintain your air bubble, make Tsubaki come to you, her pressure is fairly weak and easily backdash-able, you biggest problem is going to be 236d, so don't get too comfy doing things fullscreen, stay in the air and just focus on making it hell for Tsubaki to get in. Alright, I'll try being more beelike. Looking at Senkei's vid, I notice I don't Barrier Cancel Airdashes as much as I should. So I'll try and be evasive. Thanks. BTW, Senkei or anyone else, how do you do that reset during curse that put them back into the loop for not teching? The one Senkei did in the Second Set? Edited April 16, 2011 by LordSpectreX
InspectorOda Posted April 17, 2011 Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) Corner reset is 6A > 214 > ]6C[ > ]5D[ > ]6B[ after the cross up. Basically, 6A and and 6C bugs stop rolls and allow cross ups and OTGs, the 6B bug whiffs, and the 5D bug should ideally be delayed as long as possible before the teleport cross up in order to allow jC/6B/2B/etc mixup. Works in CS2 also, but ]5D[ is a bit harder to delay since the bug moves so fast now. Of course, there are other variations off of things like jC, but this is the most simple version there is. Edit: Forgot to say that you should buffer the C and D bugs during 6A so you can mix an empty vertical jump with 214B. This reset is a lot easier to block than it seems once people get used to it. Edited April 17, 2011 by InspectorOda
Senkei Posted April 17, 2011 Posted April 17, 2011 that wasn't as bad as you think.. mostly tokido dropping combos and getting resets...minor tips that might help you though: General -j6a air to air : try and squeeze curse out from it more instead of doing wheel -use more clouds -if you carry them to wall with wheel, you can catch roll outs with 2b Matchup -litchi dominates with jB/jC air to air so press less buttons in the air -careful of litchi 2c (death zone), you have to know the angles -litchi has same speed jump as arakune in cs1, so you can't abuse your "blocked normal jump cancel iad air throw" setup on her too much as she can air throw you But overall your arakune is very good. Thanks! Final Round had a bunch of (good)Carl and (good)Litchi players so it was kinda rough on me since either i have no exp on at all. But thats changed since that event a little bit . That reset is really fun to get off btw way.
LordSpectreX Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Tried being evasive. It worked well, even beat some West Coast player, then I faced the best Lambda in the UK. That stuff is too hard to beat. ;_;
kousaka Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 hmm so what i can tell during the pit super they RC>air dash cancel jB them to reset... thereby allowing the 100% curse effect to kick in at the end of the super animation.. so in a nutshell corner 100% recurse with 100% meter
Skye Posted April 22, 2011 Author Posted April 22, 2011 j.b's scaling forced a reset during f.g, which is how the 100% curse came in, since it does so on the last hit. Still godlike.
Mumm-Ra Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Now with this, if you aren't 100% sure you're gonna kill the opponent with a double laser ender, you can do FoG>RC>j.B recurse instead. Sweet.
LordSpectreX Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 While it seems amazing, I don't quite get it. What's to stop them from just holding back to block it once the J.B forces them to tech?
Mumm-Ra Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 Maybe hits 2-15 are unblockable? Just like Daifunka's.
Skye Posted April 24, 2011 Author Posted April 24, 2011 Only the first hit is blockable, the rest acts as a grab, like Mu's super. I doubt it's avoidable.
LordSpectreX Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Ah, I didn't know that. Well, considering that, I suppose it's techincally possible that Ragna could Inferno Divider on the exact frame the combo is reset but...yeah.
LordSpectreX Posted May 17, 2011 Posted May 17, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoyKGMwZ7dA& (Ara Vs Tager) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbPvoGsVPuw& (Ara Vs Lambda) I won a Day 1 CS2 tourny on sunday where like NO-ONE has played the game except for one guy who didn't even participate. Still, I'd like to know if there were any bad habits I was still doing. I know I did j2B a couple of times in the Tager match, I was trying to do 664B but for some reason it did that instead. I also know I have to do 2A-5A (VV) more and make sure I get 100% curse from a 6B if I have meter for it. The few random pit supers in the Lambda match was mostly me experimenting with the matchup seeing if they were useful for punishing stuff. Thanks guys.
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