[CS1] Hazama Gameplay Discusson

[Fireryda]

What is all this talk of banning I don't even-

It's very very easy to shut down any of Hazama's easy heat gain BnBs (block low, block chain, rinse and repeat) so, if you're playing against him right, the issue of a Jayoku reversal shouldn't even come up until you've had some time to try your own tricks against him.

I love having my Jayoku's blocked against Tager.

But yeah I was being sarcastic with the whole Jayoku OP thing. Completely balanced.. in comparison to some of the cast.

Also, Hakumen tends to be one of his bad matchups, but none of them are overwhelmingly horrible, 60/40 isn't so bad. In all honesty, don't play a character to counter another character, just play whoever you like most and you can usually rise above the tiers if you dedicate enough (When the game is balanced enough).

Don't listen to him. Just play Rachel. She counters every character. Once you master Rachel you're golden. (end sarcasm)

Counter-characters are lame. If you know your main(s) well enough, you can handle anything unless its like CT Arakune.

But honestly, while there is an appeal to almost full screen pokes into a massive heat building combo, he is alot harder to play than it seems. He's not too hard to get the hang of but it's rather easy to shut him down if you play defensively and apart from his chains, he doesn't have much of a way to get in on you from far away. When he's pressured you really have to keep calm and find an opening because he has no reliable reversals except Jayoku and even then it's easy to bait it out. Close range on the offensive is another thing entirely. I find Troll-kun's mix-up and pressure game to be relatively decent. (Nothing like the top 3 though)

6A isn't as bad as it seems if you're doing good perssure and getting back in there. 236C is damn good but the proration is crap and 214D~A can be combo'd, relatively safe and gets you back in their face. His sweeps are really dangerous since it leads into a 2k+ combo with meter for JAYOKU!! (5k if you have JAYOKU!!) but it isn't that hard to get to them and you can also 6C the hell out which is awesome if you land a CH into 3k+ combo

I have not found a use for 6B yet other than laugh at me because I screwed up my Jayoku input. It isn't too bad of an attack but its so slow that I usually get smacked out of it before it lands and is it even combo'able?

[PhantomX]

It might be comboable on CH. Pretty sure you don't get enough time to do anything out of regular hit.

[Eclipse]

I love having my Jayoku's blocked against Tager.

But yeah I was being sarcastic with the whole Jayoku OP thing. Completely balanced.. in comparison to some of the cast.

Don't listen to him. Just play Rachel. She counters every character. Once you master Rachel you're golden. (end sarcasm)

Counter-characters are lame. If you know your main(s) well enough, you can handle anything unless its like CT Arakune.

But honestly, while there is an appeal to almost full screen pokes into a massive heat building combo, he is alot harder to play than it seems. He's not too hard to get the hang of but it's rather easy to shut him down if you play defensively and apart from his chains, he doesn't have much of a way to get in on you from far away. When he's pressured you really have to keep calm and find an opening because he has no reliable reversals except Jayoku and even then it's easy to bait it out. Close range on the offensive is another thing entirely. I find Troll-kun's mix-up and pressure game to be relatively decent. (Nothing like the top 3 though)

6A isn't as bad as it seems if you're doing good perssure and getting back in there. 236C is damn good but the proration is crap and 214D~A can be combo'd, relatively safe and gets you back in their face. His sweeps are really dangerous since it leads into a 2k+ combo with meter for JAYOKU!! (5k if you have JAYOKU!!) but it isn't that hard to get to them and you can also 6C the hell out which is awesome if you land a CH into 3k+ combo

I have not found a use for 6B yet other than laugh at me because I screwed up my Jayoku input. It isn't too bad of an attack but its so slow that I usually get smacked out of it before it lands and is it even combo'able?

Sorry Fireryda, I'm not that great at spotting internet sarcasm haha.

Anyways, yeah, his combos can be hard to get into, but I really like Buppa's amazing pressure game with him. He consistently switches between 6A, 214D~A, and all of Hazama's low attacks to destroy his opponent with heat gain, or an overhead into Jayoku.

6B has a few uses. I know it can combo directly into Jayoku. However, overheads are usually better for that. And if you're hitting low, you might as well use 3C into Jayoku. I think 3C might even have better proration. Speaking of which, 6B has the exact same proration of 6A.

[Fireryda]

3C is a helluva lot slower than 6B but 6B keeps you in a standing stance so I would think it'd be good after you've conditioned them but a 25 frame startup is just..

I'll be going off to play some proper matches with my new and improved Hazama after all that combo practice sometime today (after i sleep, wake up, finish my lab report then to the arcades!) so hopefully I'll be able to get a few vids of my way of combo'n after Jayoku for MASSIVE damage (note to self: get a phone that has > 1.3mpx camera..).

Been laying off Troll-kun for the last 2 days and learning Rachel though so hopefully that hasn't affected me too much.

[Mr Oso]

If only hazama could shoot Gadoukens like dan >.>

[g.Bauer]

If only hazama could shoot Gadoukens like dan >.>

that's 236D EX version :8/:

[wuku]

Either I'm not playing good enough Hakumen's or that matchup isn't as bad as it seems.

Just gotta play differently to Hazama's normal style of COMIN FOR YA WIT MAH KNIVEZ.

It is favoured to Hakumen but not that much. Definately his worst though. Hazama's got good match-ups a cross the board. Nothing's too difficult or too easy.

if hakumen doesn't know how to bait your D zoning, it's your favor. otherwise, it's hakumen's big favor. if hakumen is good at spacing and blocking, you really have nothing to do until he gets the full meter and comes closer to kill you.

[Dr.Faust]

I see what you mean dood but to be honest I relly want to try to learn Haz he looks cool. As for learning I don't care how hard he is I like a challange.

[Arifureta]

I keep saying this: He's not very hard to learn. :I

[Eclipse]

3C is a helluva lot slower than 6B but 6B keeps you in a standing stance so I would think it'd be good after you've conditioned them but a 25 frame startup is just..

I'll be going off to play some proper matches with my new and improved Hazama after all that combo practice sometime today (after i sleep, wake up, finish my lab report then to the arcades!) so hopefully I'll be able to get a few vids of my way of combo'n after Jayoku for MASSIVE damage (note to self: get a phone that has > 1.3mpx camera..).

Been laying off Troll-kun for the last 2 days and learning Rachel though so hopefully that hasn't affected me too much.

Really? I always thought that 6B was way slower than 3C. At least it feels that way when I'm using it. Hmm, maybe it has to do with the range. Nonetheless, I'd enjoy seeing your Hazama videos if you manage to get them up. The only styles I'm very familiar with are massive zoning (Zakiyama) and rushdown (Buppa). Thus far, I'd prefer the rushdown, but I'm curious to see how your playstyle of the awesome character develops.

[FlyingVe]

6B is 25 frames, 3C is 14. So 3C is much faster.

[Eclipse]

6B is 25 frames, 3C is 14. So 3C is much faster.

Thanks for confirming that. Fireryda probably just had a typo, and he meant faster.

[Fireryda]

I'm freaking terrible at Haz lol. If you watch me play you need a steel forehead from all the facepalming due to all the stupid stuff I do.

And yes I did typo.

And ditto about him being not too hard to learn. He's alot like ragna as in it's easy to get all the bnb's down but you need experience tostand a chance.

[FlyingVe]

His BnB's may be easy, but his big Jayoku combos are not. But your ragna analogy is pretty good. Actually applying all of his tools in a productive manner is more difficult than for many other characters.

[Arifureta]

Actually applying all of his tools in a productive manner is more difficult than for many other characters.

TRUTH.

So, yes, his BnB is crazy easy to learn but applying them in a real match with a competent opponent is a whole entire issue altogether. It's so very easy to shut him down. ;_;

[Fireryda]

TRUTH.

So, yes, his BnB is crazy easy to learn but applying them in a real match with a competent opponent is a whole entire issue altogether. It's so very easy to shut him down. ;_;

And doing it when bang is doing his goddamn 5a / 2a shenanigans on you while trying to defend is just...

Least it beats Litchi. for IB Jayoku.

[PhantomX]

I find applying pressure and/or closing distance to be extremely difficult with Hazama compared to with other characters, to be honest.

[Arifureta]

^ His pressure game is laughable, and closing distance after they've figured out that blocking is more than enough to stop the chains takes a bit of creativity. Not to mention that IADing a cancelled chain is very much in your opponent's favor so you can't even spam that. ._.

[Fireryda]

I find applying pressure and/or closing distance to be extremely difficult with Hazama compared to with other characters, to be honest.

Unless you're Buppa

But yeah IMO. once you start it's easy to keep it up but theres just so many things that can go wrong.

He can't pressure long as block puts him out of range of his normals in no time at all so you're going to have to rely on long range things when you get that far or dash back in and all of those are risky. I find 3c and 214d~c generally pretty safe but 214d~a is mediocre at best. It's so easy to get mashed out of it and eat a subsequent combo and it's a bit slow so it isn't hard for them to block on reaction as well. On a dash in there are quite alot of things you can do. 5b,5c, 236c, 2a/5a. They all work pretty well but they're nothing reliable. It's far easier to fish for a CH with chain but that is definately not something that's guaranteed.

Personally though I have more trouble dealing with offensive rushdown characters than defensive characters. Apart from IB Jayoku and 236C shenanigans, I find it hard to get away from them. Haz's dash backwards is crap, his IAD air dash is.. what? and his chains take too long to get you out so all I can do is hope for a gap into CH 5B/236C combo or the natural counter of IB Jayoku.

With defensive characters (except Lambda..) I can fish for a chain hit easy as they're less likely to be in my face giving me no room to breathe and even then, they can't keep at it forever.

Getting chain hits are actually quite hard. I taught one of my local Jin players how to avoid the chains and now I have a bit of a harder time against him.

All good fun though but he keeps trying to 2D (ice spike) me out of my chain follow ups which is

[Eclipse]

Unless you're Buppa

But yeah IMO. once you start it's easy to keep it up but theres just so many things that can go wrong.

He can't pressure long as block puts him out of range of his normals in no time at all so you're going to have to rely on long range things when you get that far or dash back in and all of those are risky. I find 3c and 214d~c generally pretty safe but 214d~a is mediocre at best. It's so easy to get mashed out of it and eat a subsequent combo and it's a bit slow so it isn't hard for them to block on reaction as well. On a dash in there are quite alot of things you can do. 5b,5c, 236c, 2a/5a. They all work pretty well but they're nothing reliable. It's far easier to fish for a CH with chain but that is definately not something that's guaranteed.

Personally though I have more trouble dealing with offensive rushdown characters than defensive characters. Apart from IB Jayoku and 236C shenanigans, I find it hard to get away from them. Haz's dash backwards is crap, his IAD air dash is.. what? and his chains take too long to get you out so all I can do is hope for a gap into CH 5B/236C combo or the natural counter of IB Jayoku.

With defensive characters (except Lambda..) I can fish for a chain hit easy as they're less likely to be in my face giving me no room to breathe and even then, they can't keep at it forever.

Getting chain hits are actually quite hard. I taught one of my local Jin players how to avoid the chains and now I have a bit of a harder time against him.

All good fun though but he keeps trying to 2D (ice spike) me out of my chain follow ups which is

You pretty much summed it up. Personally, I really want to develop a playstyle utilizing Hazama's pressure abilities like Bupppa. The amount of reaction time and quick thinking that takes is pretty insane though. I really think focusing on improvisation helps a lot with Hazama.

Instead of trying to land a certain attack into a BnB, etc. Try to improvise depending on your opponent's actions. If they jump in to avoid your chains, use a 5C or 2C into one of his BnBs. Also, if you can't manage to pull off a FC Jayoku, try starting off with 3C or some other normal you can escape pressure with then chain it into his Jayoku punisher. It seems that in some of the best matches between Buppa and Zakiyama they improvise and use normals with horrible proration just to pull off a combo. Lastly, play mind games with your opponent, keep using your chain while they block, then suddenly pull yourself to them. If you can condition your opponent right, they may not react and you could pull off a BnB. I guess psychology is always an important factor.

In the end, if you're a horrible Hazama player but you manage to pull off one Jayoku FC combo per match, you'll always have a chance of winning, haha.

[IkeTakeda]

Frame traps dude :D. Then they would stop mashing. More traps for more mashing :D/

[PhantomX]

Yeah, with defensive and slow characters you can just chain all day until one hits and then go for the BnB on hitconfirm. This is pretty much what I do against Tager players, lol. When people keep rushing you down it's hard to put up good defense and chains suck when they can close distance really quickly.

[Fireryda]

Long quotes don't look very neat.

Yeah it pretty much all is improvisation. From my experience I rarely landed a 5b/5c > bnb. It generally started from a 3c/214d~c mix-up. Even then alot of my damage came from random things which I never expected to be able to combo off such as a j.d close range CH ~D follow up into j.cx3 dj.cx5 j.214b for like 1700-1800 damage. You really have to be thinking on your feet and know what you can do off certain situations. Like today I pulled off a 5D(blocked chain)~C follow up and pretty much conditioned him to mash me out of D. I landed behind him and did a j.214B# CH into Jayoku for 3k damage and won. Was sooo cash.

Against Tager I don't actually play that defensively. I find it to be quite an even matchup (might be because the tager I'm playing against is just a helluva lot better than me). But if he's careful you can't really get in on him safely. You can't eat a sparkbolt cause you'll get combo'd to hell but you can't get magnetized either. The thing is that you can't avoid the spark bolt forever so poking him with one chain and running away just doesn't work. Best thing I found to do is to try and get close to him but not close enough to bait him to come to you where you can beat him out with your normals (as long as you're doing it right.. goddamn random 360A's... ) I find 214d~b a helluva lot better than Jayoku in this matchup. As long as he doesn't have Spark Bolt, he can't get in on you at all. At best it'll clash and you'll have advantage since he's too slow to hit you due to being so far away because of the attack and if you land a CH.. yay meter and lots of damage.

[FlyingVe]

Frame traps dude :D. Then they would stop mashing. More traps for more mashing :D/

This, This, and a thousand times this.

[Fireryda]

Lol but Frame traps are a general strategy which applies to every character..

Any good ideas on how to frame trap with Haz though?

I find the good ol' 3c > Jayoku works wonders, especially with the ranges 3c hits at.. it's just amazing. Conditioning them to 214D~A's just helps it better.