kazukifafner Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 If Bang starts getting drive happy when you use D, just treat it like a sledge happy Tager. Cancel it quickly with A and throw out another for CH.
kid viper Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Bang IB Punishes All are IB > Jayoku houtenjin 5C 2C 2A 5a 3c 6b 2d 5d 6d super crush ashura
Akira-Shiro Posted September 7, 2010 Posted September 7, 2010 In my opinion id call this a 5-5 cause hazama can stop anything bang does wit 5a or 236c & Hotenji but that dont count. Hazama could out zone & make bang use up needles >.> but no ones that slow. Bang can pressure like hell but cant get it without being unsafe wit something. Hazama can poke like hell but cant do damage without being unsafe..... >.< it puts them at an annoying standstill. In this match-up whoever makes the most mistakes ends up
LordSpectreX Posted September 7, 2010 Posted September 7, 2010 I'd say that is this slightly in Bang's favour. Hazama's anti-airs aren't great against j.c. Hazama's pokes may be good, but Bang's have further range and more combo potential. Good Bangs I find plant Nails have use those as transportation. Bang's speed make him hard enough to Chain already, but with those, he's almost impossible to catch. Bang can also punish whiffed blockstrings and lot better than Hazamas can. Plus, not all Bangs are going to be stupid and waste their nails at a blocking opponent. :P
YukiBlue Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 I would say this match is in Bang's favor. 5a all day. From when I played Hazama, I just thought using D for a Counter hit was the best you could do. /unhelpful comment.
Zeron_X25 Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Remind me again what isn't in Bang's favor? 5a stuffs all of Hazama's pressure. D Nails destroy Hazama's zoning. He far too fast to chain.
huey253 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 d-nails don't destroy hazama zoning unless hazama zoning is mindlessly throw chains from midscreen... it is pretty hard to zone bang due to his extra movement options but its there... bang can't approach from the air at all. (hazama 5A) your pressure must not be very good if you are getting mashed out by 5A
yashanyu1 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 your pressure must not be very good if you are getting mashed out by 5A Perhaps more 236D to safely end pressure, Since if bang (or for that matter any character) sees stance coming it's a free punish.
Zeron_X25 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Hazama's 5a doesn't have the range of j.C. Or at least I don't think it does. You're right, my pressure isn't that good and I never said it was. I've seen good Hazama's get mashed out of their pressure by Bang. Hazama's attacks have huge push back which require you constantly dashing and canceling the dashes into attacks. 5a doesn't let that dash cancel to happen and an IAD j.2C crossup probably won't work too well with 5a getting in the way. D-nails are a great threat to his zoning game. It's not just "HURR DURR LEARN HOW TO BLOCK DEM NAILS". If he has to stop for even an instant while trying to zone with chains, Bang will catch up to him and Bang has lots of options against an opponent blocking the D-nails. We've seen command grab traps with those a lot. Also, it's not so easy to evade the nails while you're already in chain animation. Canceling it with A and blocking gets you in Bang pressure, with B you don't know if you'll get CH or not cause of the nails' bounce and C, again the same thing. Also note that in matchup charts, it's always considered that the best players are playing and they know how to use every tool. It's not that the Bang is just gonna waste the nails like a moron and die for it and neither is the Hazama just chaining like a madman. If the Bang uses it right, the player, even if very good with their chain canceling and chain movement, will be caught in a situation where they don't want to be as a zoner. If Hazama's 5a anti-airs Bang's attempts of jumping in, Bang's 5a's huge hitbox makes up for it. In the end, it's just my opinion on this matchup. I'm not trying to reiterate the whole worn out argument of "lol 5a" in matchups, but I believe it's a very effective tool Bang's got in a lot of matchups. Sorry if I'm too scrub to understand the truth about this matchup but this is how I see it. (P.S. Sorry if non of my post just now made sense. lol) Edited April 19, 2011 by Zeron_X25
huey253 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) hmmm i'll start linking some videos that i think would help people understand the matchup (i'll try to find ones with bang winning too) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSLZeOlnj8E&feature=player_detailpage#t=400s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdtXa3pGDJc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAX5FvXQO1M i'll dig around for some other videos in a bit. these vids have some good examples of how to deal with 5A/dnails EDIT: early cs1, hazama players didn't really know how to deal with it, but by spring time they started figuring shit out. Edited April 19, 2011 by huey253
Zeron_X25 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 The second video kinda proved my point. Block D-nails, land, get hit by Bang pressure into a combo. First video was... Buppa. Dora barely used D-nails and Buppa barely pressured him long enough. I never do stance pressure against Bang and I pretty much do the same Buppa does after 3C: 236D. I only do overhead with the stance if I know my opponent will keep blocking. But what I saw in that match was lots of IB Jayoku. That's a good option against any character and not just Bang. This does not counter the defensive 5a argument. Bang was pressuring and not Hazama. If you try to lengthen your pressure against Bang, 5a will always CH you. Pressuring with 2a and 5b is his only real option. I still think it's in favor of Bang. I don't think it's too much in his favor but just a 55 for Bang.
huey253 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 where did hazama get jabbed out of his pressure? at what time?
Nakkiel Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 Hazama's 5a doesn't have the range of j.C. somebody doesn't know how hitboxes work oop aww
huey253 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 where did hazama get jabbed out of his pressure? at what time? EDIT: i think bang rapes hazama at low level play.
Zeron_X25 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 where did hazama get jabbed out of his pressure? at what time? They didn't. Buppa ended it with 236D immediately after the 3C. I was saying that if they had lengthened it, it would've happened. I wasn't making any point about that. lol @sG: Apparently. I guess I shouldn't talk about things I'm slightly ignorant of. Sorry.
huey253 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 They didn't. Buppa ended it with 236D immediately after the 3C. I was saying that if they had lengthened it, it would've happened. I wasn't making any point about that. lol @sG: Apparently. I guess I shouldn't talk about things I'm slightly ignorant of. Sorry. you should provide me some examples in the form of match videos, i don't usually see bang mash out hazama unless the level of play is low there are plenty of easy ways to beat mash as well...
Zeron_X25 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 I never said mash but blocking and 5a works. That's not mash in any way but it still serves the purpose of stuffing the pressure. I'll try looking up some vids and see what I can pillage. If I find a good example, I'll post it for you guys to analyze it and see what exactly caused it. And of course by video, I mean Japanese arcade ones.
huey253 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 also remember that hazama has the ability to block and 2A bang out of his stuff too... which does happen in those videos.
Zeron_X25 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 Problem is that Bang's 5a beats Hazama's 2a. 2a has more startup frames. I think doing 5a is a more viable option in most cases. Hazama's 5a hitbox is smaller than Bang's so Bang's usually wins. But again, I'm not sure. I'll play some matches with some Bangs tomorrow to see how it goes. I'm kinda trying to figure out how to make this matchup easier for myself.
huey253 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 you'll never win 5a vs 2a if they are done at the same time. so if you get a move that is +- 0 in your pressure and you DONT gatling into another normal trying to recover and 2A will lose to 5A.... however i don't see how that has anything to do with what we were discussing beforehand.
Zeron_X25 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 You mentioned how the Hazama can block and 2a just like Bang can block and 5a. If Bang pressures with 5a and 2a, block 2a loses. It doesn't have anything to do with the the topic of D-nails and Bang 5a.
huey253 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 this is getting theory fighting level... i mean, its impossible to argue that bang can 5A hazama out of his blockstrings without also stating that hazama can do the same to bang. if you are refering to bang 5Aing you out of your overhead/low, maybe you should mix it up better. hazama can easily 2A bang out of his high low as well
Zeron_X25 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 I wished that worked. I really do Dunno if it's the startup frame that's screwing me up but I always get CH 5A'ed if I ever attempt to 2A his 5A 2A pressure. It's not like I'm throwing it out there all the time either. I block till I can get a good chance to hit him back but I just get CH from 5A. Then Nails get me into pressure again and there goes my chance of pressuring them. I dunno. This might have to do something with the fact that the only good Bang player I play against mains Hazama. lol
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