[CS1] Arakune vs. Iron Tager

[SOVIET AFRO]

Since this matchup changed more than about any, I didn't see a thread so I made one Where to start. Hmm patience is your best friend as tager at anytime within arms length can 360a (or B if they are feeling lucky and get luck) can get you into the Gadget Trap or atleast apply some magnet to you (takes a weird combo but I know it can be done) Rocket Finger can be annoying especially when trying to apply pressure as it vurtually assures tager a nice 2.5~3K combo and more than likely puts you in the Gadget Trap:vbang: Trying to think of ways to apply some pressure without falling victim to the GCtrap....among other things. Another matchup of New tools with old tricks that make this kind of scary, but even more so than the Lambda 11 matchup. Atleast in this fight you have the zoning advantage and some crossups

[Irrsinn]

j.B

early jB gets ch by 2a

falling jB (from high) trades clean with 2C

backdash 720 works occassionally, this is punishable but it beats the jB usually and catches the fall, gotta do it early.

IBing jB doesnt seem to work if they do it again but most arakunes will go for stand a pressure after a jB so they can mixup into curse

Stolen from the Iron Tager vs. Arakune (CS) thread in the Tager matchups subforum, remember, knowledge is power! .

[SOVIET AFRO]

Indeed it is

[kousaka]

You can backdash out of alot of tager's pressure as long as your not magnetized. Once your stuck close use IB, 5a, and beam super. Best to keep tager away though and zone with 6d's, 2d's and j6d's. Be careful using 2D as it gets sledged through easily. However if you space properly you dont' have to worry. You also bait a FC with 2d then 2c them before the sledge thinking a second is coming. 5c/2c fc all go into easy dive loop on tager for 100% curse. note you can't move the beam back to bounce tager higher during the super so it's less effective for getting curse.

[Irrsinn]

What about just dashing to the front when magnetized? how does that work? Also for Tager, the only way to get curse out of the super is to 5A>6B>j6D his gigantic ass, well, at least thats what I think.

[kousaka]

yup your exactly right about the beam, you get nothing except 5a>6b>j6d dashing through tager is dangerous and probably situational to during curse for crossups or to pin a cloud to them

[SOVIET AFRO]

What about just dashing to the front when magnetized? how does that work?

Also for Tager, the only way to get curse out of the super is to 5A>6B>j6D his gigantic ass, well, at least thats what I think.

I'd assume very carefully.... but not very advised when you could end up eating a nice 360A into gadget reset, Just have to be real sure about the area you have to dash through, otherwise Hello Mean Tager Mind games,lots of magnetism, and all sorts of just plain Mean Oki\Mindgames:psyduck:

Atleast that's what I think... the risks sometimes are worth it (if you have a clean look through to use a teleport to pin a cloud, try it, and hope you don't get nailed on the comeback from it)

[Skye]

note you can't move the beam back to bounce tager higher during the super so it's less effective for getting curse.

In CT, if they're too low to the ground, I do a 5B > ja > jc > jd

Is it possible to conjugate that into a dive loop for CS?

[LordSpectreX]

99% of the time, Tager is really easy, because 99% of Tagers aren't good enough to punish well. However, I faced a really good Tager today and it was completely hopeless. It was alright pre-magnetised, but when he sent a Spark Bolt at me and I blocked it, there was absolutly nothing I could do to avoid being sent in. Jumping back in the air made me eat a 5D or an Atomic Collider. Backdashing was countered with constant 5Ds which not only made me go to him, but also negative penalty. When I was sent in, the magnetism just kept me in a blockstring that was incredibly hard to get out of. Even when I went on the attack, he punished my IAD j.4B with a backdash and a 720 for god's sake, no tech allowed. 2D > 2D > 2C Sledge Hammer bait didn't work at all, because he only sledged up to a short distance away, which made it risky to 2C.

Even when he was cursed, it was a pain in the ass. He blocked all the bugs and the mixups, but at any point where I wasn't doing a true blockstring, he either poked, threw, or 360A/B me. It meant that to get the wheel loop started, I had to hit him the the D bug, break his guard, push him forward and hope the D Bug launches him before he recovers.

Not to take anything away from him, he had 100% Win Ratio over 170 games, but still, is there an option for escaping magnetism I didn't know about?

[Heroic_Legacy]

\Not to take anything away from him, he had 100% Win Ratio over 170 games, but still, is there an option for escaping magnetism I didn't know about?

Was this Tager LostSoul526?

[CopperDabbit]

I've had a lot of luck using 3c against Tagers who do that kind of shit. 3c > jc > jD > (land) 5a > 6B > j6D ruins their day.

[LordSpectreX]

3C? Does the magnetism affect it so it bring you to his feet? Cause I would of learnt something new today!

LostSoul rings a bell, I'll check my recently played later. Why, is he good at Magnets or something?

[CopperDabbit]

Magnetism does affect it, but I think only on start up of the movie. The real use of 3c here is that you'll go under his attack and counter hit him out of it.

[A.X.I.S.]

any move involving arakune's teleports or dashes is effected by magnetism.

[CopperDabbit]

Yes, that's true. However, Arakune's 3c is neither a teleport nor a dash. Technically speaking, of course.

Edit: Let me clarify that statement a bit. During the portion of the move where Arakune is not on screen, magnetism does not seem to affect him. He is affected before and after, however.

[Skye]

Well, I have a few pointers about the match up.

The first one is obvious, avoid magnetism, unmagnetized, Arakune controls the field mid and full screen, just stay out of 5c range and there isn't anything Tager can do that you can't counterattack, sans Spark Bolt.

When magnetized you're stuck in his game, 5d can pull you into his reach fullscreen, and Arakune has to take sharp risks to get Tager off his ass, if you're good at Ibing 5d or 4d, then you should be set to punish him sufficiently.

Midscreen only, learn to 2c Sledge on reaction, it's hell for Tager.

Stay out of his air space, Tager can spam anti airs all day and there is not a way Arakune can beat it, this was the biggest hurdle I had to cross, learning that I can't rush him down anymore. Between Collider's invincibility, 2c's FC properties and 2a gdlk hitbox, Arakune is better off zoning Tager in almost every situation. Learn to bait and punish them, is all that Arakune can do.

Backdash his non magnetized strings, and block low, 3c is very unsafe for Tager.

5D is a good meaty if Tager tried to tech > backdash in the corner.

And make sure you are never cornered by Tager, that shit will scar you.

That's about it for now.

Arakune gotta play smart and safe until he gets curse.

[A.X.I.S.]

your arakune makes me sad face.

if tager jumps just 5C even if he blocks it you can still run away easy.

[LordSpectreX]

New problem. Tager's J.B and J.C. Does anything beat these moves in the air or the ground? 5C works just about, but you have to hit them with the later part of the move. J.B, J.6A, Airthrow, J.A all lose to it. And even on block, it brings me to the ground infront of them, allowing them to hit me with a D attack and magnetise me. Bell Bug sometimes works, but it has to be there after he jumps or he can just high jump over it or block it.

I just hate Tager so much. Everytime I work out a gimmick, like the constant magnetism one mentioned earlier, a new Tager uses a different tactic on me.

[Skye]

jb can be beaten out by his ja (air v air) and 5c (ground v air). Even if Tager manages to land before 5c connects, gatling it into a 5d, or jump out if you want.

jc is a tough cookie, that hitbox is scary. Avoid it altogether. Arakune's best mind game is not jumping. No need to autopilot jump in this match up, unless you're trying to avoid spark (which can be backdashed just as effectively).

[Badguy]

just a little something i find useful when im magnetized (although its player specific) if you IB 5D (the yellow punch) you can punish with 5A > 6B > j.6D

also a little something i do is when im magnetized and i just escape his pressure i immediately put out a bell bug and keep backdashing, if the opportunity is there i might throw out 2D, j.xD, or a cloud (close to the ground) until mag wears off. if he chases me to a corner obviously its then safe to corner teleport

[Skye]

5D, 4D, and both Sledges can be punished only on IB.

Cloud isn't the best idea, unless you know that Tager won't try to pull you in.

5D's pull was buffed so well, that it can drag Arakune in fullscreen, and if you're trying to party, that's a CH. You'll have to time your projectiles, 2d isn't really worth it unless you're midscreen, and it has to be Yomi'd, if you try to do it on reaction, you'll get CH.

[LordSpectreX]

Thanks Skye. Although, you said that if Tager lands before the 5C connects, surely that's an invitation to 360B me. I think that 360 might come out faster than 5C > 5D gatling.

[Skye]

5c is -4, and only on full recovery, which is 18f.

5D has 17 frame start up.

If I'm doing the math right, this means that Tager has to do something after 14 frames of guard stun have passed, and what this means is that Tager has 4 frames to stuff 5d, and only a DD of his choosing (and a one frame window 360a, or if he's ballsy or smart, Sledge) will save him, 360b has 6 frame start up and no invincibility, it will CH him.

That's why I said "or jump out". If Tager is barrier blocking in the air (expecting 5c) then there's nothing stopping you from 5c (block) > 5d.

It's good to have the option either way, sorry to play Theory Fighter, but if Tager wants to commit to stuffing the 5d, upon guessing wrong, anything he does will have more than enough frames of recovery to be punished sufficiently, so it's more risk for Tager than it is for Arakune.

[AdamNW]

When you are getting pulled in (magnetized) and you're in the air, j2C seems to work quite well.

[LordSpectreX]

I don't think you should ever dive against Tager to be honest.