Ronove Posted March 15, 2010 Posted March 15, 2010 Boss TaoFTW greenlighted it, we both agreed that this area kind of lacked activity and discussion other than the combo thread(s). So here you have it your CS general discussion thread for all things Tao related, hoping this will revive the subforum a bit. And since we need some kind of starting topic, how have you guys been faring so far with CS Tao? I'm still adjusting to all the old matchups, Litchi so far has been the character that's been giving me most trouble, I swear her 5A and 5B scare the shit out of me, not to mention her freaking abare Oh and while I do like the guard primer system (we can finally block for a while!) I really need to get used to her low health. Screwing a jump-in > punishment > 1/3 of Tao's healthbar gone x_x
XDest Posted March 15, 2010 Posted March 15, 2010 How do you deal with a good Hazama player with Tao? I'm finding it really hard to simply just get past 5D and 214D~..A. If I run directly forward (for a 5B, 5C or possibly 6C), I get 5D'd. If I IAD j.C/j.B or j.4D (or any drive for that matter), I just get 214D~..A'd by its huge hitbox. If I triple jump, drive cancel in the air, or crawl, one of his other chains gets me. It's like it's a mixup that's heavily in his favour every time I move and try to get close. It's really frustrating even getting in on him.
Ronove Posted March 15, 2010 Author Posted March 15, 2010 I only played against an Hazama a month ago at a ranbat and it was my first time getting familiar with that matchup, so I know what you're talking about when you say that at first you need to get around his zoning. Since I still lack enough experience I can't really give any solid tip but one of the things I noticed works well when they're zoning the air (in case we jump/IAD/j.5D) is to go for j.4D and a lot of ~C feints, trying to make him guess wrong. However it's certainly not as easy to get in as it was against Nu in CT or Lambda in CS, or maybe we simply still have to figure out a better approach. Oh yeah, at full screen distance maybe 214A/B could be useful, they're not THAT awesome but they might keep the Hazama distracted long enough to close the distance atleast near midscreen or 3/4
RinHara5aki Posted March 16, 2010 Posted March 16, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goc3MXkkiB8 Mod background commentary = priceless XD
CakeWasBannedd Posted March 16, 2010 Posted March 16, 2010 Hazamas a fun matchup for me actually, landing a 6C to high damage combo when he tries to get in with chains feels really good. And then theres the thing Kazu demonstrated on almost day one of CS: Pounce super is unavoidable if Hazama chains in.
Ronove Posted March 23, 2010 Author Posted March 23, 2010 This is kind of a general question, not specifically related to a particular match-up: how are you guys approaching the opponent now in CS? I noticed that a lot of the japanese Taos like to j.5D~B to get close, because it's fast and doesn't have excessively long recovery with the new ~B cancel. It's weird though, because while 5D~B on ground is still unsafe (on block, and even on hit you can only do as much as block after or 2a/grab in a few cases) it should be the same for j.5D... I still use all the jumps when necessary, but seeing all these japanese players effectively closing in with j.5D~B makes me want to try it more. In certain matchups (like vs Litchi, I am beginning to hate her ) getting in while avoiding any pokes/AA has become a little problematic, especially since she has such low health I can't really let myself get hit by situational hitconfirms (again, Litchi...).
CakeWasBannedd Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 This is kind of a general question, not specifically related to a particular match-up: how are you guys approaching the opponent now in CS? I noticed that a lot of the japanese Taos like to j.5D~B to get close, because it's fast and doesn't have excessively long recovery with the new ~B cancel. It's weird though, because while 5D~B on ground is still unsafe (on block, and even on hit you can only do as much as block after or 2a/grab in a few cases) it should be the same for j.5D... I still use all the jumps when necessary, but seeing all these japanese players effectively closing in with j.5D~B makes me want to try it more. In certain matchups (like vs Litchi, I am beginning to hate her ) getting in while avoiding any pokes/AA has become a little problematic, especially since she has such low health I can't really let myself get hit by situational hitconfirms (again, Litchi...). What I do is throw a projectile (214A) to freak them out, dash forward into range of a 6C, do a 6C, it gets blocked, mixup time. There are tons of ways to approach with tao though. I like j.214D near the wall then jumping off it. Seems pretty safe to me, and covers TONS of ground.
Ronove Posted March 24, 2010 Author Posted March 24, 2010 Oh yes, forgot to mention I've been using 214D/IAD into airthrow a lot in CS, since it leads to 4k+ damage. It's actually become even more useful than it was in CT since her ground throw got nerfed so much that all my previous setups and mixups that I adopted in CT are simply not usable anymore (or require to input a dash which basically provide room to the opponent for jabbing or teching the throw on reaction). Kara-throw at close range gets stuffed in a lot matchups.
XDest Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 This is kind of a general question, not specifically related to a particular match-up: how are you guys approaching the opponent now in CS? I noticed that a lot of the japanese Taos like to j.5D~B to get close, because it's fast and doesn't have excessively long recovery with the new ~B cancel. It's weird though, because while 5D~B on ground is still unsafe (on block, and even on hit you can only do as much as block after or 2a/grab in a few cases) it should be the same for j.5D... I still use all the jumps when necessary, but seeing all these japanese players effectively closing in with j.5D~B makes me want to try it more. In certain matchups (like vs Litchi, I am beginning to hate her ) getting in while avoiding any pokes/AA has become a little problematic, especially since she has such low health I can't really let myself get hit by situational hitconfirms (again, Litchi...). Are you sure it's still unsafe? I'm was really sure they changed that so that it's advantageous on hit and slightly disadvantageous on block now. I could be wrong, but I haven't been punished for it yet. Also yeah, I unintentionally used j.D~B to get around in CT as well. Didn't really think it was that great, a bit of a habit. Who knows if it's actually a good thing or not.
Ronove Posted March 24, 2010 Author Posted March 24, 2010 Ground 5D~B on hit is still not completely safe. When I played our local Litchi player last weekend I got a nice counter from her 2A right as I landed on the other side while I was attempting to 2A as well. However in other occasions I did manage to sneak a 2A or do a grab/block. I am still trying to figure out why sometimes I would be caught in counter, I think it might depend on whether the opponent has buffered their moves during the blockstun making them come out at the first available frame while ours is still in its activation ones. Jumping out of it is a big no since they'll just 5A/5B/whatever fast normal they have as ghetto AA. And if you think about it, I've rarely seen japanese players using 5D~B even in CS, they seem get punished for it even when it does hit, they prefer doing 5D~C to reset their pressure or 2D~B/jump. j.D~B apparently seems to have less recovery so that might be why they like it so much to use it.
XDest Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Not completely safe isn't unsafe. Unsafe is guaranteed hits. If something can be blocked/DP'd afterward, it isn't unsafe (~90% of moves are disadvantageous on block). It might simply be very stupid to do anything other than block, based on the matchup, but it's still very possible to walk away from the situation without taking damage. If you don't take damage, that's safety. Whether or not it's an offensive/pressure tool will depend on the match-up. That's because B cancel whiffs are range dependent based on when you canceled and where you did the drive in the first place. Things that are blocked will always recover the same way. But who's going be jumping back blocking all day? You can't predict where she'll end up exactly, therefore you can't predict the amount of recovery and which move to use. Add A and C cancels as well as triple jumps, air dashes and j.4D/j.2D, and you have no goddamn clue where she'll end up, how to punish her, and IF you can punish her until it's too late. And because it recovers quicker, you can always do a second j.D with the cancel of your choice right after it. So you don't know if she'll even land after it or do an attack. And that's why j.D~B can close ground against a good amount of characters. There's too many options for her after a midscreen jump and too many options just for j.D~B alone to predict for an appropriate punishment, and you're not going to react quick enough.
Ronove Posted March 25, 2010 Author Posted March 25, 2010 True, I suppose that's what makes her j.D~B not that easy to predict. I noticed a lot of Taos were succesfully able to get in and sneak a 5B/2A upon landing since their opponents had little time to react given the reasons you stated. Regarding ground 5D~B on hit: yes in the end all I could do was block, and sometimes throw if I was expecting a move with a long startup (longer than the throw). But I guess it'll depend on matchups. For sure I can tell you that against Litchi anything beyond blocking after a hitconfirmed 5D~B is not going to be safe if the Litchi player is mashing on 2A/5A.
Ronove Posted March 28, 2010 Author Posted March 28, 2010 With the recent news about the rebalancing in the console version I think we can safely assume that the taunt loop is probably going to say goodbye. Which kind of makes me feel like an idiot for having spent a lot of time (and money) for the purpose of learning it. Oh well, I am sure that without her loop she's probably going to become less intimidating in terms of learning curve and manuality, but I also hope that they're going to change other aspects of her game for the better to compensate for the removal of that loop, else she's going to end as a bottom tier character...
CakeWasBannedd Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 They'd better not remove taunt loop D: I love it. And if they do, they had better buff her amazingly in other areas otherwise she'll just suck. I really would be disappointed if the taunt loop was removed, I really like doing it on opponents.
Ronove Posted March 28, 2010 Author Posted March 28, 2010 I like the loop for the plain fact that executing it succesfully really feels rewarding, but at the same time I agree that it is something that probably wasn't intended to be there and looks pretty much "boring" to see (atleast to all the other people who don't use Tao). We'll probably still have our regular single taunt/double taunt combos, I hope...
CakeWasBannedd Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 I like the loop for the plain fact that executing it succesfully really feels rewarding, but at the same time I agree that it is something that probably wasn't intended to be there and looks pretty much "boring" to see (atleast to all the other people who don't use Tao). We'll probably still have our regular single taunt/double taunt combos, I hope... Tao was good for once. Not broken, certainly not amazing, but good. I'm just afraid if they rebalance her she'll be terrible again. They either A) Intended taunt loops and their good damage at the cost of low defense or B) Wanted her to stay the same as in CT but lose oki and damage but gain a bit more speed on a couple of moves.....
zValor Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 Tao was good for once. Not broken, certainly not amazing, but good. I'm just afraid if they rebalance her she'll be terrible again. They either A) Intended taunt loops and their good damage at the cost of low defense or B) Wanted her to stay the same as in CT but lose oki and damage but gain a bit more speed on a couple of moves..... Tao has always been good. Also knowing Arc the loop will stay, MU-12 will probably be biggest difference the arcade and console versions
CakeWasBannedd Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 Tao has always been good. Also knowing Arc the loop will stay, MU-12 will probably be biggest difference the arcade and console versions Not really. Not going to go into detail, but there were much better characters in CT.
TaoFTW Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 As far as I'm concerned, the arcade version will not be any different than the console port. Taunt loop will still be your #1 choice in BnB, but not your only option. Also, CT Tao was A-/B+ tier...and still is high up on the tier ladder. Even without the Taunt loop, she still does decent damage.
Ronove Posted March 28, 2010 Author Posted March 28, 2010 As far as I'm concerned, the arcade version will not be any different than the console port. Taunt loop will still be your #1 choice in BnB, but not your only option. Also, CT Tao was A-/B+ tier...and still is high up on the tier ladder. Even without the Taunt loop, she still does decent damage. What? So the taunt loop is going to survive from the rebalancing they've announced? [edit] oh wait, I realized that maybe you still don't about the fact they're going to rebalance the game for console release? I was making assumptions based on the latest news since chances are that the developers might remove Tao's taunt loop as part of that process. It wasn't referred to me giving up on the loop (how could I, after spending so much effort to get it down). If you were aware of the news then completely ignore this edit. Anyway, I'd find it odd for ArcSys to announce a rebalance and then in the end leave the taunt loop as it is. It would make sense if they removed it and then improved Tao's damage output through other means in order to not weaken the character will taking out an "undesired" aspect of her game (supposing that the Taunt loop was unintended on the developers' side).
XDest Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 As far as I'm concerned, the arcade version will not be any different than the console port. Taunt loop will still be your #1 choice in BnB, but not your only option. Also, CT Tao was A-/B+ tier...and still is high up on the tier ladder. Even without the Taunt loop, she still does decent damage. In CS, she does 3400/4400 instead of 4200/6800 if you don't do the taunt loop. That is actually pretty significant if she loses all that damage but still retains her 9500HP. As well, she loses any oki game if she loses taunt loop. In CT, she had it off everything, so the damage could easily be compounded with the right wakeup guesses. So yeah, if you get rid of Taunt Loop, you have to make some more changes to make up for it.
zValor Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 As far as I'm concerned, the arcade version will not be any different than the console port. Taunt loop will still be your #1 choice in BnB, but not your only option. Also, CT Tao was A-/B+ tier...and still is high up on the tier ladder. Even without the Taunt loop, she still does decent damage. this is pretty much how I feel, and I doubt removing the loop would be as simple as people think
MacArthur Blunts Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 Guys, taunt was obviously intentional. Someone knowingly made taunt do damage, reverse proration, be special cancelable and have hit/blockstun. It will most likely stay in her game after this "rebalancing" occurs. Maybe doing a little less damage. Or they may not even touch her at all.
CakeWasBannedd Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 Guys, taunt was obviously intentional. Someone knowingly made taunt do damage, reverse proration, be special cancelable and have hit/blockstun. It will most likely stay in her game after this "rebalancing" occurs. Maybe doing a little less damage. Or they may not even touch her at all. ASSUME THE WORST BRACE FOR IMPACT I was actually just talking with my friend about that yesterday. They obviously knew about taunt loop in CT, so I don't see any way for them to accidentally make a loop.
Ronove Posted March 29, 2010 Author Posted March 29, 2010 Of course taunt combos were most likely intentional, but the loop? Well, we'll see when game comes out on console, I guess.
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