[CS1] Ragna vs Tager

[SmilingBison]

2D doesn't have super armor and Sledge only protects him from projectiles (only projectile Ragna has is Dead Spike).

During his "pressure", don't barrier block if you intend to punish, since it increases your block stun.

This is actually a great help, the tager tends to randomly throw out his magnet storm super after doing one of these two moves, so I tend to barrier block every time, did not know it stopped me from punishing.

Tager feeds on mistakes, once you stop making mistakes and learn the matchup, it gets A LOT harder for Tager to do anything.

This is pretty much exactly what makes the match frustrating to me as a new player, just a couple mistakes and I lose, worse though, than that to me is the tager player feels his spam is a legitimate strategy and doesn't attempt to improve. Glad to know once I level up and get better the matchup becomes harder for him, hopefully it will push him to understanding his character rather than just relying on some huge health and painful punishes.

Thanks ZhePrime your info was really solid and I appreciate the help.

[ZhePrime]

This is pretty much exactly what makes the match frustrating to me as a new player, just a couple mistakes and I lose, worse though, than that to me is the tager player feels his spam is a legitimate strategy and doesn't attempt to improve. Glad to know once I level up and get better the matchup becomes harder for him, hopefully it will push him to understanding his character rather than just relying on some huge health and painful punishes.

Don't worry, he can't rely on that later. I know since I've faced a bunch of good Ragna's with my Tager and it forced me to drastically improve, since there's not a whole lot Tager can do then.

Heck, I learned Instant Blocking to 720 for this matchup (which isn't at all something you learn overnight), so that should give you a small hint at how troublesome this matchup can be for Tager.

Thanks ZhePrime your info was really solid and I appreciate the help.

Just ask if there's anything else.

[Zeromegaman]

A good idea against Tager is to just keep your blockstrings short, and don't get greedy. Knowing when to back off or reset your pressure is something that is crucial. Try not to get into a position where you throw out 5C and then are forced to commit to something.

How does Ragna fair in the air in this matchup? Obviously buffed AT means that jump-ins are no longer free, but is AT really something we have to watch out for now?

And of course, does Ragna have anything new/changed that allows him easier methods of beating Tager's backdash?

This is very true and wise. Long strings will be punished by the smart Tager player. 5B like Spirit Juice said can be perfect for knocking Tager from Backdash, I also find that Belial's Edge works perfectly, as they tend to backdash before hand. Its good to use when you can read the Backdash too, for some off reason Tager players tend to thing Belial's Edge leaves us open, when in fact its just Recovery fodder for 5B into 5D. If your gonna do 5B throw in 5D fr a little pressure and health on block.

us Ragna players can use that to bait out AC or SH. Once that's been done, punish with 5B into 5D and dcancel into an air Combo ending with belial's

5B>5D.Dash Cancel, 6A jc>jc BE

Then back away as they try to hit you with Wake up grab. Its th mos common thing for them to do. Honestly that little Punishment does a good chunk of damage, and is the best way to punish them, and if you want, you dont have to go in the air, or follow up with 6A. In Fact I need a favor, give me a Tager Player, I need more practice On Tagers. So Far, the guys online in Rankings have been prone to this strategy.

[Seifuuku]

5d is not safe unless you position yourself real well.. if they instant block the first hit they can 360/720 your ass for free if you're close enough/magentized, unless you BK or DP on reaction

barrier is only +1 frame blockstun, it isn't that bad to use.

[Zeromegaman]

5d is not safe unless you position yourself real well.. if they instant block the first hit they can 360/720 your ass for free if you're close enough/magentized, unless you BK or DP on reaction

barrier is only +1 frame blockstun, it isn't that bad to use.

True they CAN instant Block it , if they are being defensive. 5D knocks them out of the air and its much more safer than j.C or 6A. Also on the ground it pushes back a bit. Now it your magnetized I definitely agree with NOT using 5D unless its opportune.

[A.X.I.S.]

5D is never safe...even for a spacing tool.

gotta be real careful with it.

6A and j.C are safer against tager for all practical reasons...also some people use j.d to knock tager out of the air...hell some people use j.A.

EDIT: 5D is only good for killing elbow.

[VR-Raiden]

I've been messing around with Gadget Finger. Figuring out what you can do other than ID(RC).

To beat throw/collider:

CH jA, jC, jD, 5B, 6A, 5C(HJC), jC, jD(JC), jC, BE, 6D, jD(JC), jC, BE, 5D, ID(D) does 3182 dmg, gets 59 meter.

CH TK BE, 5A, 5B, 5C, HF does 1691 damage, gets 17 meter.

If he does 5A it will CH you for both. If he does 5C, it will CH trade with both, looks like he could easily get a combo from the jA trade but unlikely from the TK BE trade. So yeah both are pretty risky, with TK BE being slightly less risky for less reward.

Something weird with the first one is depending on the timing of the collider, jA will work and jB won't, or vise versa. Seems like if he gets it out asap jA will be the one to beat it. If you do get jB to work, it will increase the damage from the combo a good amount. Both jA and jB will CH a throw attempt still though.

[-Ladon-]

why can you TK BE but not TK GH?

seeing as TK GH CH can net sooooooooo much damage?

does his head invlun really carry over TK GH?

[VR-Raiden]

why can you TK BE but not TK GH?

seeing as TK GH CH can net sooooooooo much damage?

does his head invlun really carry over TK GH?

Well, yeah I didn't mention it but you can TK GH to beat throws. Collider will beat TK GH though sadly. It grabs you before the TK GH has a chance to reach him.

[garzel91]

Ok so I have to admit but Tager's stronger magnetism and his gadget finger and have giving me alot of problems (every Tager i fought so far I lost to lol)

I never had this problem in CT and I am using the same strategy that I used in CT (hit and run) but this just seems to not work anymore.

Anyone got some tips they can throw my way that could help me?

[Kain]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?8623-Ragna-vs-Tager-(Continuum-Shift)

This thread already exists. Please don't make duplicates next time.

[garzel91]

im blind as a bat today ty for pointing that out

[advancedNoob]

I just fought some Tager player, he was using a loop I couldn't get out of no matter what I was doing. While I was magnetized, he only had to catch me once, then he just spammed atomic collider, followed by a punch that bounced me and there NOTHING I could do to get out (except burst obviously). It's not a combo, but AC would always catch me, how do I get out of something like this? That stuff looks really broken to me.

[ZONG_one]

LOL. Inb4Lock...

Is what I would say usually. But try asking your question in the Ragna vs. Tager match up forum.

Also, I assure you there are ways out, but I'm unclear as to what exactly you're asking about.

You're probably not neutral teching in the air. Don't tech if you're in the air near him, and you're magnetized.

If you have to tech, neutral tech (without holding a direction,) so that your invincibility should keep you safe.

EDIT- oh yeah, someone lock this please. (^.^)

[advancedNoob]

Didn't know about matchup subforum. It doesn't necessarily need a lock, can be moved instead.

Thanks for the tips. I messaged the guy saying I couldn't do anything to get out and he said it's a tech trap.

[-Ladon-]

neutral tech with AC out drags you towards him from emergency tech, tech when he's not holding up his collider

[Divine_prophet]

I'm having a lot a trouble against Tagers. Mostly due to the fact I'm impatient and I like to Air dash a lot, but I'm working on it. I was wondering why ID isn't the best choice after getting GF?

ah and also, what does "TK BE/GH" mean?

[Zeromus_X]

^ID is a great choice...if you have 50 meter. Then you can ID > Rapid to get out of the dumb guessing game for free. Otherwise it's a complete guess. Just try to mix up your options the best you can so that you make the Tager player have to guess too. More info on GF is on page 2 of this thread.

TK BE/GH stands for "Tiger Knee Belial Edge/Gauntlet Hades". You execute a Belial Edge or air version of Gauntlet Hades from the ground with the input 2147/21479 C or B.

[Divine_prophet]

TK BE/GH stands for "Tiger Knee Belial Edge/Gauntlet Hades". You execute a Belial Edge or air version of Gauntlet Hades from the ground with the input 2147/21479 C or B.

Ah so that's what it was. I was messing around in training mode and did a TK BE, I thought it would be useful in matches. My hope was to use it when my 3C get's blocked but I wasn't too sure on the exact D-pad inputs. Thanks man, helped a lot.

EDIT: Ah another question. What's the best escape route after using the Ax Kick. I get Tager Bustered upon landing from the decent. Is it better not to use Ax kick at all? the Straight punch usually misses after a BE combo into 5D, ID (D).

[Zeromus_X]

BE is unsafe on block so you should probably only use it every now an then as a pressure tool...though if you have 50 heat you can do whatever you want really lol. TK GH is a nice mixup tool every now and then.

You should usually always go for the axe kick for the oki it can provide. You should have an second jump or air dash left after axe kick, safest option would be to jump/airdash away and get out of there...but if they're just doing Tager Buster every time after, try to descend with jB or jC to stop them from doing that (but then they can do 2C/Atomic Collider if you do this every time, so mix it up). Also to note, If you have 50 heat after the combo there's a nice setup you can do with jB and C Inferno Divider to keep them from tech rolling, check out the oki thread for that.

[A.X.I.S.]

if your doing axe kick on tager just use j.b on your decent because there isn't a damn thing they can do about it but neutral tech or back roll, both puts you in a better position, also don't IAD, tager can punish it even easier than he can in CT.

[Arvoyea]

if your doing axe kick on tager just use j.b on your decent because there isn't a damn thing they can do about it but neutral tech or back roll, both puts you in a better position, also don't IAD, tager can punish it even easier than he can in CT.

The quote in your sig is true. It makes me wanna cry...

Also thanks on advice on post-ID j.b. Actually, how can you use that anyway?

[Seifuuku]

if your doing axe kick on tager just use j.b on your decent because there isn't a damn thing they can do about it but neutral tech or back roll, both puts you in a better position, also don't IAD, tager can punish it even easier than he can in CT.

in the corner (which is really where 90% of axe kicks happen) tager can delay techroll forward to avoid j.b entirely.. worst case scenario you'll still be in pressure but you (tager) will be out the corner

[Dacidbro]

The quote in your sig is true. It makes me wanna cry...

Also thanks on advice on post-ID j.b. Actually, how can you use that anyway?

Just like we got exposed at EVO

oh wait