Nov Ganon Posted April 24, 2010 Author Posted April 24, 2010 lmaooo i just wanted to make sure i was seeing that right but using 100 meter on that is tooo dum
Dacidbro Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 Me and render tested it, 5B > 5C works just about every time against 2A mash (By just about I mean it seems like there might be a possibility of 1 or 2 frames where you may very well be able to hit 2A and beat 5C or trade, but you literally have to press it on like the 1st or 2nd frame available, which means a knowledge of blockstun beyond human possibility and perfect execution). Now, if you see a bang doing it a lot, and are dilligent enough to get the timing of IBing his 5B without accidentally losing low blocks (IE, can you correctly IB 5B in 5A 5B, 5A 2A 5B, and 5A 2A 2A 5B?), you can IB 2A interrupt 5C for sure. But then you have the counter problem of 2B being the most common follow up to 5B, and if you IB 2A between 5B and 2B you just frame trapped yourself. OH. How active is yukikaze counter? If it stays out.. say.. 8 frames after flash, you can probably option select counter both?
Yuushiro Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 sorry, a bit confused here, whose 2A and 5B>5C??? 2A for jin or for bang?
Dacidbro Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 I apologize, there is certainly a lot of vague annotation in there. I'll highlight Bang's moves in blue, and Jin's will stay black. Me and render tested it, 5B > 5C works just about every time against 2A mash (By just about I mean it seems like there might be a possibility of 1 or 2 frames where you may very well be able to hit 2A and beat 5C or trade, but you literally have to press it on like the 1st or 2nd frame available, which means a knowledge of blockstun beyond human possibility and perfect execution). Now, if you see a bang doing it a lot, and are dilligent enough to get the timing of IBing his 5B without accidentally losing low blocks (IE, can you correctly IB 5B in 5A 5B, 5A 2A 5B, and 5A 2A 2A 5B?), you can IB 2A interrupt 5C for sure. But then you have the counter problem of 2B being the most common follow up to 5B, and if you IB 2A between 5B and 2B you just frame trapped yourself. The main point is, although mashing 2A will beat the overhead in a vast majority of circumstances, if Bang gatlings it off of 5B, you won't have enough time and you'll just get beat.
Yuushiro Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 It seems high jump approach works really well against bang, it would help also to avoid his projectiles... today I use a lot of high jump to "get in" and it seems work really well against most bang players
Dacidbro Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 High jump is good stuff. Be careful about over-stretching your air options (IE Super double jumping, then just falling in a easily understandable line). If you screw up bad enough Bang might start picking up free air-command grabs, which could lead to you being forced to use aerials or heat to cover yourself. Rule of thumb, never pattern yourself. If you follow that the above is significantly less possible.
Yuushiro Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 the super jump allows me to jump again even after jC or jB or after fireball... I can do jC> fireball, or jC>dash /jump > jB I think that's what get them,
smooshman Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 the super jump allows me to jump again even after jC or jB or after fireball... I can do jC> fireball, or jC>dash /jump > jB I think that's what get them, you could also (note: very gimmicky) try to do J2C (low to ground)>3C to try and force a high>low mixup, it's very gimmicky, and can be hard to do right in a combat situation, but on the flip side it also combos at the right height.
Yuushiro Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 2B is safer than 3C right away, and 3C is a bit risky on block
smooshman Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 2B is safer than 3C right away, and 3C is a bit risky on block oh right... IDK why I do it, it feels like it lands easier, but yeah 2B is a way better option since it goes back to 5C (and 3C if it hits).
Nov Ganon Posted May 16, 2010 Author Posted May 16, 2010 3C is free on block smooshman u should know that from CT
smooshman Posted May 16, 2010 Posted May 16, 2010 3C is free on block smooshman u should know that from CT I know but my finger's right there... but yeah one of my many bad habits that I must kill....
Nov Ganon Posted May 16, 2010 Author Posted May 16, 2010 yea dont worry about it.. *dap anyway whats some good ways to land a FC on this manly man? plz give me sum tips hes a real pain in a rare end... for the most part im getting oh so good at blocking "some" of his strings. but i want to know whens a good time to use that good ole 2C any sugg?
Yuushiro Posted May 16, 2010 Posted May 16, 2010 2C??? when they normal jump at you in a block string... but you have to react quickly
Yuushiro Posted May 29, 2010 Posted May 29, 2010 ok, let me see what's the japanese wiki has to say about this matchup (and myself too actually.... having to go against 4 bangs on regular basis at my arcade) basis: always try to take the initiative of offense, knows how to get in for a specific player or just what works in general.... to be patient is really vital in this matchup, a strong defense one must have lol..... it's always a guessing game with the bang, but once you recognize the playstyle of the specific bang, I think you can use it to your advantage... bang's 5A can function as anti air too so watch out for that..., j.2C again will beat that instead of j.B so it's fundamental to know which one to use. use jin's jB mostly for crossup. jA, fubuki is a good anti air to use against bang..... be careful when you both in the air and you think he gonna land, but he can do his air drive and it will beat almost anything that you will try to throw on the ground. wakeup DP is risky because he can just do his drive move...(2D) to counter it eventhough he is really close and you'lll eat his big 2D combo ..... so do it unexpectedly... long range: do your fireball unexpectedly...., because he can use his drive to teleport at you and getting pressure right away.... if he has meter be careful of umbrella super for fireball too because you'll eat that super because of the fireball recovery time. bang's running and dashing speed is also good, so be careful of that, need to understand "maai" the interval between you and your opponent and do a little bit of yomi of what he gonna do next to try to get in. bang also has much better mobility in the air than jin because bang can dash more time and please take that into account. he can backdash and then directly dash at you and doing tech trap or something. mid range: keep in mind that jin strong point is long and close range, he is kinda suck on medium range... that's why try to keep the enemy at long or close range.... try high jumping so you can mixup jC and fireballs and maybe other stuff to get in. try using high IAD too for crossup sometimes.. instead of the normal IAD... you can use both jC and jB for crossup.... mix it up also with 3 ice because they will throw in 2D from time to time... short distance: be wary of his dash-in 5A... jin's 5A might beat it but it has so much lesser range... so it is dangerous... .. also bang 5A is 1 frame faster than jin's 5A so this only WORK for "dash in 5A" please note the difference... 2A will beat it too sometimes eventhough 2A is 1 frame slower than 5A be patient and know what normals or DP to throw after instant block.... like 2A will beat 5C after the previous normal if you instant blocked it.... throw in 3C also once in a while because it has upper body invicibility on mid range... make sure to do this unexpectedly because 3C is an unsafe move... if you IB his D nails after mixup.... and he dash in at you , you can do hirensou or rehyou.... be careful because the smart enemy will bait that too from time to time.... but if they bait it, then you can in turn be on the offense.... note: but be careful if they are super close after the D-nails because it's still a positive frame even on instant block... others: be careful when you are knocking him down and he has meter... he can do 2D>RC or maybe the daifunka or new super wake up.... especially if the enemy is about to die, most of the time they will throw that at you especially if they have 100% meter... and the new super... isn't so negative on whiff too so be carefull for that.... if you are close enough 5B will be a CH if the new super whiff.... be careful when you both in the air, always try to keep the distance and use jC mostly... because if you meet in the air most jin air normals will lost to his... you can try to do airthrow but make sure it will connect.... be careful when you are approaching or about to land, and they can throw 2D...... use the double jump system especially on close mixup game. throw DP carefully on FRKZ mode.... and try to do combo after ward.. if you get to corner meterless FRKZ bang.... pretty much you can overturn the match...try using 3 ice too in the corner for FRKZ bang... if you are fast enough, and you know he gonna throw in 5A>2A... and you IB his 5A...you have a time to throw him and it'll be a throw counter....(can someone confirm this?, this is from a reader contribution that still unconfirmed , not sure if this is possible)...
huey253 Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 some thoughts: throwing dp is a very bad idea while bang is in FRKZ unless your SURE beyond a shadow of a doubt, because if you wiff or even get blocked you just lost the game. you can't ib 5A and grab before 2A unless the bang player decides to wait a while. 2D on wakeup for bang is terrible, if your ever in a blockstring and you see bang activate a drive, then chain into a low attack and you'll win. if you can get a bang player to 2D your ice sword from full screen, thats great because now you can throw a low to hit him out or just DP if you don't think you can react. drives are almost always punishable if you know what to do, 2D 5D both lose to lows, 6D has full body autoguard but after you autoguard he can be poked out easily.
Yuushiro Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 throwing DP sometimes it's the only way to get out of FRKZ pressure if the bang is really good.... it's risky but most of the time you'll have 50% meter when bang goes FRKZ so you can RC it. Thanks for the confirmation about the 5A>2A... bang teleport is too fast if he decide to teleport from full screen. it's too risky to throw out normals or throw.
Dacidbro Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 The information about "Be careful for 2D on Bang's wakeup" is relatively worthless, as 2D takes 4 frames to guard point and also fails to counter lows.
Dacidbro Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 No, it starts after 4 frames. The guard point continues for about 17 frames after that.
smooshman Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 throwing DP sometimes it's the only way to get out of FRKZ pressure if the bang is really good.... it's risky but most of the time you'll have 50% meter when bang goes FRKZ so you can RC it. Thanks for the confirmation about the 5A>2A... bang teleport is too fast if he decide to teleport from full screen. it's too risky to throw out normals or throw. the problem is that, to RC something, it has to make contact, and FRKZ Bang is fast.... now if he's really close, then try it..... if you dare.
huey253 Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 the big problem about throwing dp againist frkz is that it wiffs (no rc), and sometime good bang players decide to constantly cross you up as well. fortuantly FRKZ dashes put bang in counter hit state so an anti air jab into some air ender would work.
smooshman Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 the big problem about throwing dp againist frkz is that it wiffs (no rc), and sometime good bang players decide to constantly cross you up as well. fortuantly FRKZ dashes put bang in counter hit state so an anti air jab into some air ender would work. which would be...? beyond DP's jin's AA is.... lackluster.
Dacidbro Posted May 30, 2010 Posted May 30, 2010 I think he means literally 5A. Throw the 5A, option select the followup (5A > 5C > 6C > etc if hits in the air, 5A > 5B/5C > etc if the ground, and if 5A whiffs, 5A > 5B (but 5B doesn't come out)/block). That way you are less vulnerable.
Nov Ganon Posted June 5, 2010 Author Posted June 5, 2010 so im fighting bang and he throws out three nails and i do a dp(the B version) and it connects and all the nails whiff....how often should i rely on a dp b4 the nail pressure comes?
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