Reviving tournaments

[qwerty]

i used to hold the same position as mr. tager for approximately the same reasons stated in the post above.

but you will eventually realize that you are incredibly wrong.

[IronTager]

? : S I could be. Again, I think Sol is really hard to learn in a top level, but just shows a lot of the basics of the game. I could be wrong though for whatever reason. All these characters have so much potential, it's really not easy to say that at a top level, ANY of them is easy to learn that way. You always have to start somewhere though. Anyhow, it's kind of good to argue this, that way you can have a better understanding of things. It's the best way to figure things out. For all I know, I could be wrong and it's a possibility I will not deny. Still, it's good to know recommendations so we can get the tournament scene running up better and it's great to know that you fellows are serious about this too. That reminds me, I have to ask you guys.

What would you say is the biggest problem as far as what people think of Guilty Gear?

What are your opinions in which it'll increase it's popularity?

Are there any things you notice that seem to appeal certain fanbases towards Guilty Gear?

[tolore]

ABA: No clue

Anji: Keylime, or limekey, or whatever his name was. Does he still even play?

Axl: Shuuto, Niiyama, Meru, Udei, Nekomimi (Only recent ones, s/he wasn't always very good), Akira to an extent.

Baiken: Sharon?

Bridget: Ruu?

Chipp: SAMITTO!

Dizzy: H.H.

Eddie: Ogawa (Duh), Isa

Faust: RF?

I-No: KO1

Jam: Mike!

Johnny: Bleed?

Ky: Machaboo?

May: Efute

Millia: Yeah, Woshige

HOS: KAQN, Zero (0)

Pochumpkin: FAB!

Robot: Dogura, Nezumi

Slayer: Niga, Actually, there are a lot of good J-Slayers

Sol: No clue, honestly.

Testament: SHONEN!

Venom: N-O! (This guy and Shonen are probably the best players I've seen period)

Zappa: Imo?

sharon really hasn't been playing much in a long time, raku(luck), and maruken are much more prevelant/easier to find. There's a third baiken player running around but I totally can't remember who now.

[Kamui Moon]

sharon really hasn't been playing much in a long time, raku(luck), and maruken are much more prevelant/easier to find. There's a third baiken player running around but I totally can't remember who now.

Koto? i haven't seen luck in awhile either.

anyways, lots of characters on DW's list are kinda outdated. i know there was a topic on that matter before, but i can't seem to find it. must've gotten purged or something. it'd be awesome if we had a topic with a list of all the top players plus their kanji for easy searching.

but that's for another topic.

What would you say is the biggest problem as far as what people think of Guilty Gear?

animu.

Are there any things you notice that seem to appeal certain fanbases towards Guilty Gear?

animu. seriously, hardly anyone ever takes a look at the depth that gg offers. they write it off as one of those shitty airdashing animu games and go back to marvel. it's even harder now to get anyone to appreciate gg because of bb.

the only possible shot gg has at a revival is if people actually go to majors and hype the fucking shit out of the game. that's just getting harder and harder now that gg is being forced to fucking SUNDAY at majors. sunday is reserved for games no one gives a fuck about, like smash and kof, not the best goddamn fighting game available. sunday tourneys will never get any hype, but unless we, the community, can actually prove ourselves we'll just keep getting pushed into the death slot.

gg did at least get more entrants than anything other than sf4 and t6 at final round iirc, so maybe there's hope. we'll see come evo.

[IronTager]

Koto? i haven't seen luck in awhile either.

anyways, lots of characters on DW's list are kinda outdated. i know there was a topic on that matter before, but i can't seem to find it. must've gotten purged or something. it'd be awesome if we had a topic with a list of all the top players plus their kanji for easy searching.

but that's for another topic.

animu.

animu. seriously, hardly anyone ever takes a look at the depth that gg offers. they write it off as one of those shitty airdashing animu games and go back to marvel. it's even harder now to get anyone to appreciate gg because of bb.

the only possible shot gg has at a revival is if people actually go to majors and hype the fucking shit out of the game. that's just getting harder and harder now that gg is being forced to fucking SUNDAY at majors. sunday is reserved for games no one gives a fuck about, like smash and kof, not the best goddamn fighting game available. sunday tourneys will never get any hype, but unless we, the community, can actually prove ourselves we'll just keep getting pushed into the death slot.

gg did at least get more entrants than anything other than sf4 and t6 at final round iirc, so maybe there's hope. we'll see come evo.

I see... By the way, that was kind of a lowblow to KOF. I appreciate KOF a lot. People treat it like shit because it's apparently a "knockoff of SF" when it really isn't. Personally, I think SF4 should be pushed to Sundays just because it's a joke that took from a whole lot of other games and only gets appreciated cause of the title "street fighter" while having nostalgia factors and shitty music, gorilla faced monkeys fighting, and other problems that I could go on for centuries about. I even think Ono is a half assed designer that can't come up with much that's original and tries to use the weak points of the American fanbase to attract people. Did it work? Of course. No offense to some of us Americans, but it seems like most (not all) will fall into ANYTHING that's really, really mainstreamed up the ass. Anyhow, I give a fuck about KOF but I couldn't give 2 shits about SF4. If that's the "pinnacle of fighting", I'd rather commit suicide right here and now than live in a World where doing the same shit over and over and over again is considered fun, and I have asperger's syndrome.

Now then, I can tell what you mean... You are right, it seems people are too hardheaded about looking into depth and get detracted by it's "anime artwork". It's pretty sad because, what relevance does how the game looks, have anything to do with how the game plays? Well, we can only try to get the attention of people who are attracted to it for now.

[Zerite]

As far as learning the game, I typically try to convince players to stay away from characters that are difficult to understand, like Zappa and Bridget. It's not like they're unplayable, they're certainly solid if you know how to use them, it's just a giant wall of frustration for most players and the major advantage of the character (confusion) is mostly lost when you're only play against one person and you learn to play the character against that person.

Typically though, you need the person who is learning to play to really like the character they are playing. One of my friends started with Baiken and switched to Slayer, because his damage output and style are badass. He'd rather play a badass character basically.

I play Zappa. This is mostly predicated on the fact that Raoh feel like boss mode, and when you get the summons going they really do seem unstoppable sometimes.

As far as this character difficulty discussion going on above, I think that the difficulty of the character takes a backseat to whether or not the player finds the character and their combos interesting. Sol certainly does have barriers to entry for mid level players, despite the fact that his gameplan is "keep fucking attacking". If that player thinks sidewinder loops are badass though, they'll be will to put the time into the character.

As far as people to look for in Vids:

Zappa : Chonari, Abe, Imo

Johnny: Bleed, Kabegawa No D.C., Omito, Satou

Slayer: Taku, Nana (7), Hase

Venom: Maddo, Heven, N.O.[N-Otoko] (N.O. is wonderful to watch)

Dizzy: Kazuki (This guy OCV's teams with Dizzy. Teams filled with ridiculous players)

Eddie: Shadow,Gibson, Isa, Ogawa

Order Sol: Kaqn, Inoue, 0

Potemkin: FAB (I'm gonna have to argue that FAB belongs in the same group as Shonen and N.O. The guy slashbacks random pokes into awesome combos regularly. It's the regularly part that blows my mind)

Baiken: Maruken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6aLRE4_Jpo

[Narcowski]

Translation - Play like a newb to motivate the newbs to play. You might even learn some things from it.

Another popularish character to show is Chipp Zanuff. I don't know why, but he's actually quite popular. His stuff looks pretty cool but "typical" as my friend puts it... I don't really blame him, Chipp is kinda typical for a rushdown character, but he's pretty sweet. Anyhow, that's my advice.

That's the thing - even if I play one of the characters I have almost zero experience with (e.g. Venom) and only use normals, I tend to win more often than not. People don't like to be handed wins, they like to earn them.

I've had several newbies pick up Chipp briefly, but they tend to put him down just as quickly because his defense is simply too low to trade hits and win. Personally, I feel like the easiest character for new players to pick up and enjoy is Slayer. He does high damage, has great normals, etc. Yes, the timing on his "real" combos is pretty tight, but a first-time player isn't going to be doing combos anyways. Jam is great as well (especially for people who have played 3s), but overall I try to just let people play who they like the looks of. If they go for one of the harder characters, I let them know that the character is "hard to play", which eases frustration... so long as they have another newbie to play with. Finding two at once can be pretty hard though.

[IronTager]

I see... Well, with time comes experience. But in order to gain experience, you need patience... People lack in that nowadays in my opinion. *Pushes glasses up* Well, what would you say they're doing wrong? How much experience do they have with fighting games in general? Do they know what a DP is? Do they know what cancelling means? Teach them as much basic stuff as possible. They can get the hang of things eventually if they have the patience. Also, try to recommend videos for them to watch. Normally, there'll be at least 1 tutorial for a Guilty Gear character and such.

[Narcowski]

The people I show the game have varying levels of fighting game experience. The hardest ones to teach, of course, are the absolute newbies to fighting games in general, in particular the ones who want to try the game because "it's pretty", and "doesn't look too hard", then pick a character I know relatively little about*.

When I come across someone who's actually interested but can't do the inputs, I usually show them how I do the motions, then have them try until they can do it. For each motion they learn, we usually play at least one whole match so they can get plenty of practice and still play some. I don't usually introduce things like jump/dash/airdash canceling until they have all the other inputs down, and by then they've usually at least figured out how to JC on their own - if they don't get tired of learning new things first. As you say, many people lack the patience to pass the initial learning curve, and I don't really know of a good way to break it up more than I already do.

*- The kind of people who say this sort of thing just tend to be around when I'm showing off the game.

[axel]

Since someone asks for a list of players, I'll post what I know.

ABA: Kimio, Reu, Tsubu

Anji: Limekey, Domi

Axl: Shuuto, Niiyama, Udei, Nekomimi

Baiken: Maruken, Koto, Kazuna

Bridget: Mocchii

Chipp: Samitto, Nikukyuu, Chikkusa

Dizzy: H.H, Kazuki, Ruki, Natsume

Eddie: Ogawa, Isa, Tsu

Faust: RF, Osaka B, Nage, Kiisha

I-No: Koichi, Ten, Yossan

Jam: KA2, mike, Panya, Karun

Johnny: Satu, Kabegiwa no DC, Omito, REID, Jonio

Ky: Machaboo, Ain, Roz, Lit

May: Kedako, Efute, Nununenu, SHO

Millia: Woshige, Koichi, Ina, JUN

HOS: Inoue, 0

Potemkin: FAB, Haaken, Kawin (known as Akira nowadays), Satoshi

Robot: Dogura, Nezu

Slayer: Tsujikawa, Hase, En, Ozawa, Tanabata (Mr Footloose victory pose)

Sol: 012, Kishitaka, Koro-chan, Roi

Testament: Shonen, Shuumatsu, Udei, Machaboo

Venom: N-O, Isamu, HEVEN, Maddo

Zappa: Mitsurugi, Chonari, Batako, eki-chan

[Hi-C]

When I come across someone who's actually interested but can't do the inputs, I usually show them how I do the motions, then have them try until they can do it. For each motion they learn, we usually play at least one whole match so they can get plenty of practice and still play some. I don't usually introduce things like jump/dash/airdash canceling until they have all the other inputs down, and by then they've usually at least figured out how to JC on their own - if they don't get tired of learning new things first. As you say, many people lack the patience to pass the initial learning curve, and I don't really know of a good way to break it up more than I already do.

I seem to run into these kinds of people a lot. I mean, a lot.

[Jais]

Bridget: Ruu, Mugen, Satoshi

[Kamui Moon]

Bridget: Satoshi

is this the same as Potemkin Satoshi?

snip

pretty close to what i had, too. plus a few more.

Axl: O2

Chipp: Minami

Eddie: Inoue

Ky: Hayashi

Slayer: Taku

[rtl42]

for what it's worth, this thread is supposed to be about "reviving tournaments", not "my list of top tier players in Japan".

[keninblack]

The best thing to do is to just try to start hype in the community. Find people to run as many tournys as possible and try to learn how to run tournaments yourself. I really wish this game was more popular its a lot more interesting then BB imo.

[IronTager]

for what it's worth, this thread is supposed to be about "reviving tournaments", not "my list of top tier players in Japan".

Yeah... Sorry about that, I'll take the blame cause I requested that people might put names up so that new players can get a better idea of how to use the character.

Anyhow, Kenin's probably right. If we learn how to make brackets and try to improve on making tournaments, more people might be influenced to play. Personally, I think if a bracket is set up for a new community, the admission should probably be around 2$ a person. Some people might be a bit afraid to put down a couple bucks down cause they're not "Good enough." Reassure them that it's just for fun, cause honestly, isn't that why we play Guilty Gear? Cause it's just fun.

Alright, so, who here's holding a tournament around their area soon and what information can you give? Also, does anyone know places that would usually let you do tournaments at them?

If anyone has other suggestions on how to bring Guilty Gear's tournament scene building up again, please feel free to present your ideas.

[Shining Aquas]

I host tournaments (that I don't play) in which one pile of scrubs fight another pile of scrubs until there's enough scrubbing to elbow grease a pile of rust.

It helps keep the scene alive somewhat though.

[keninblack]

Thats a good price Tager. Usually with games like this (3s,GG,CVS2) its best to do 2 buck entrys. 5 or 10 MAX at majors.

[Kamui Moon]

Thats a good price Tager. Usually with games like this (3s,GG,CVS2) its best to do 2 buck entrys. 5 or 10 MAX at majors.

we do $10 locals here in ohio. the price is not the real factor, casuals are. if a scrub can get to play the good guys for a few hours even after going 0-2, he'll be happy. and if gg was $5 at a major, no one would bother coming. gg players, for the most part, only play gg (plus a little bb maybe). why would anyone good drive seven hours to a $5 tournament? even if said player won a $10 tournament, he'd barely have enough for gas.

anyways, money isn't the issue at a tournament, playtime is. when gg is relegated to a single tv, scrubs won't even bother coming to play casuals.

for what it's worth, this thread is supposed to be about "reviving tournaments", not "my list of top tier players in Japan".

if you don't like it, move it to another topic and don't lock this one.

[IronTager]

we do $10 locals here in ohio. the price is not the real factor, casuals are. if a scrub can get to play the good guys for a few hours even after going 0-2, he'll be happy. and if gg was $5 at a major, no one would bother coming. gg players, for the most part, only play gg (plus a little bb maybe). why would anyone good drive seven hours to a $5 tournament? even if said player won a $10 tournament, he'd barely have enough for gas.

anyways, money isn't the issue at a tournament, playtime is. when gg is relegated to a single tv, scrubs won't even bother coming to play casuals.

if you don't like it, move it to another topic and don't lock this one.

Yeah, I should have clarified. I meant for small tournaments at Colleges or for scrubs. It's a fault on my end because I wasn't specific. On bigger tournaments, the price would definitely get budged up for higher level players. I think 2 dollars is a fair price for a starter tourney or a tourney at a small local area that many people attend specifically. By the way, how far is the Ohio Tournament? We use to have a Michigan Guilty Gear tournament, but it's mostly Capcom stuff there.

That reminds me, a good way to lure more people in is by adding big name games to the tournament. It might impress some people to watch Guilty Gear from entering in to play something like SF4, SF2, MvC2, etc... (Big name fighters in comparison to).

[Kamui Moon]

ohio tournaments are all way down south. it'd be a pretty long drive for you, but the comp is probably worth it.

anyways, that just sounds like the same kind of people you'd get at a con or something. people like that are sometimes afraid to even enter free tournaments, so you wouldn't get them to put any money down in the first place. also, adding big name games does not help gg at all. once again, gg players really only play gg. there is very little overlap between our community and the capcom community, and unless you find the very rare open-minded player, they probably wouldn't bother to watch anyways.

[IronTager]

ohio tournaments are all way down south. it'd be a pretty long drive for you, but the comp is probably worth it.

anyways, that just sounds like the same kind of people you'd get at a con or something. people like that are sometimes afraid to even enter free tournaments, so you wouldn't get them to put any money down in the first place. also, adding big name games does not help gg at all. once again, gg players really only play gg. there is very little overlap between our community and the capcom community, and unless you find the very rare open-minded player, they probably wouldn't bother to watch anyways.

Really? Hm. Interesting... I guess I'll take your word for it and it actually makes sense considering the fans I've seen of series... Oddly enough, the fighting game community is somewhat elitist. Though, I love Guilty Gear and KOF. I play those more often than other fighters. (Well, I play Blazblue too, but I like Guilty better to be honest)

Well, when you do see these people who are fearful, what do you normally do to bring them in? Also, how strong would you say the Guilty Gear scene is in Ohio? (If you're wondering... Michigan is really... really... really... mainstream...)

[Mahouko]

mmm just asking but would a house gathering be a good way to start?

I want to start GG playing in the ny area, good people play, just the person who host is in college -.- Every now and then they do.

Now the thing is what i was talking about before, a house gathering. I dont really know everyone but I want to have alot of people so we can have fun gain exp etc. How would you guys recommend starting off?

[IronTager]

mmm just asking but would a house gathering be a good way to start?

I want to start GG playing in the ny area, good people play, just the person who host is in college -.- Every now and then they do.

Now the thing is what i was talking about before, a house gathering. I dont really know everyone but I want to have alot of people so we can have fun gain exp etc. How would you guys recommend starting off?

Hm... House gatherings are actually good. Personally (This is just me), I'd get to know the people before inviting them into my home... But again, that's just me... Also, I know that people do that often enough. Do you know how to run brackets? How is the prize money being split (If it is)? How many people are attending? Will you have enough room for these people? Anyhow, it can work and I've seen it work... Just gotta be organized.

[feri]

mmm just asking but would a house gathering be a good way to start?

Definetly! Its the only way.

Building up a local scene (before you can even get to tournaments) requires people to commit to holding some casuals if your scene isn't blessed with an arcade setup (NY, CTF?).

Ideally, you want a central location, accessible parking (they are going to haul some CRTs afterall), near food, near PT and anything else you might want. But I guess since only your committed to this you dont have any choice =/