Zerite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkzzK4hiSso&feature=related Somewhat arbitrary combos, but there is a enkasu setup for every character in it.

The accuracy is in the player there, not the buttons. You're comparing a more precise instrument to a less precise one, and basically arguing that the average player will benefit from having less precision rather than more because they are bad.

Mitsurugi's Zappa is unbelievable.

A few things to add. Zappa's backdash: This backdash lasts 8 frames and is invulnerable for 7 of them. That's longer than most normals are active for, so with good timing you can backdash during blockstrings and punish. High level players attempt to leverage this into making his run safer with FD braking. If you're prepared to quickly backdash after the FD you can bait uppercuts and bursts and so on. They tend to just do this over and over so that you don't really know when zappa is actually going to really run in on you or just backdash. Sword j.H : Using this move as a crossup hits more often than not. Also, use as follow up to 236 S which with 2S as a follow up lets you play a 1-hit mix up game after the slide. General cross up : When you cross up with Zappa it's best, as it is with any character, to make it as ambiguous as possible. With the sword and ghost j.H, what this means is that you want as little forward velocity on your crossup jump as possible. This means that you don't want to airdash over them or be running when you jump, as you'll keep the run's momentum. This is all assuming you want the crossup to hit. With zappa, you can airdash really close to the ground after the jump, which leads to nice mix-up opportunities. Air backdash ghost j.H is really good against characters that have moves that cause them to move forward like May and her dolphins. Ghost 2H: This move has frame advantage. It gives you a little time to threaten a mixup. Not really that great, but not bad. Ghost throws can be timed so that you remain stationary in the air. Not normally useful, but against characters without uppercuts is generally safe. Also it's very confusing for your opponent. FRCing a ghost while you do this will cause you to fast fall. The dog has an unblockable set up with 4D D. If this attack is the dog's fresh attack, then it counts as an overhead. Since you also control Zappa, if you do a low attack as the dog hits you have an unblockable setup. I normally use 2k, cause it moves you forward a little and is good in combos anyway. The Dog's 6D active frames end before the dog lands. This makes it easier to position the dog, and typically will cause your opponent to block since the dog is going through them. When you get to raoh, make sure to mention that darkness anthem will do massive chip damage and has frame advantage (is safe) if you don't release it. Also, could you guys maybe move this argument about the dog to another thread? It's kind of off topic in here.

And it's more that the japanese use nico, and that's where the good vids come from.

If you guys really think that the hardest part of this game is 412 motions and frcs then there is something wrong.

As far as learning the game, I typically try to convince players to stay away from characters that are difficult to understand, like Zappa and Bridget. It's not like they're unplayable, they're certainly solid if you know how to use them, it's just a giant wall of frustration for most players and the major advantage of the character (confusion) is mostly lost when you're only play against one person and you learn to play the character against that person. Typically though, you need the person who is learning to play to really like the character they are playing. One of my friends started with Baiken and switched to Slayer, because his damage output and style are badass. He'd rather play a badass character basically. I play Zappa. This is mostly predicated on the fact that Raoh feel like boss mode, and when you get the summons going they really do seem unstoppable sometimes. As far as this character difficulty discussion going on above, I think that the difficulty of the character takes a backseat to whether or not the player finds the character and their combos interesting. Sol certainly does have barriers to entry for mid level players, despite the fact that his gameplan is "keep fucking attacking". If that player thinks sidewinder loops are badass though, they'll be will to put the time into the character. As far as people to look for in Vids: Zappa : Chonari, Abe, Imo Johnny: Bleed, Kabegawa No D.C., Omito, Satou Slayer: Taku, Nana (7), Hase Venom: Maddo, Heven, N.O.[N-Otoko] (N.O. is wonderful to watch) Dizzy: Kazuki (This guy OCV's teams with Dizzy. Teams filled with ridiculous players) Eddie: Shadow,Gibson, Isa, Ogawa Order Sol: Kaqn, Inoue, 0 Potemkin: FAB (I'm gonna have to argue that FAB belongs in the same group as Shonen and N.O. The guy slashbacks random pokes into awesome combos regularly. It's the regularly part that blows my mind) Baiken: Maruken http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6aLRE4_Jpo

I think 66 dashes start immediately. this is the section watches refers to. http://www.dustloop.com/data/ac/system.html It's under frame data... which is sort of misleading.

I just... jizzed all over myself. UN GHHHHH

How are the changes coming? Any word on how slashback works frame wise?

I know that the xbox version can output progressive scan probably at 60 hertz for #reload, but interlacing is weird party land.

It's probably treating each field as a frame then.

It just seems like the slashback info would have been in the mook.

What I meant was what is the general formula for IB and slashbacking. Edit: I see the IB in hitstun chart now. What about slashbacking though? Also, this part of the chart should also be in the sections that mention IB, so that players don't have to search for it. It's only in this section. ABA doesn't have rising up data or jumping data. Same for O.Sol and Robo Ky. From my original post, the throw section doesn't mention that you have throw invuln on wakeup. It's something like 7 frames. Also, why not add the missing information to the secrets page? All you have to do is copy/paste some parts of my first post.

Think about how the hit stun chart interacts with links. It doesn't make sense unless its just about how long you can't move for. How does hit stop interact with links? http://www.dustloop.com/data/ac/system.html this is the system data page. as you can see, the character specific jump data is missing. NTSC is the standard system for American televisions. There are no televisions that run at 60 fps. They aren't monitors. Also, I was restating questions I've already asked. Can you tell me how many frames IB takes off of slayer's 6H? How about Slashback? these

You guys are really beginning to frustrate me on this. The EX characters and the unlockable information are the only things I've mentioned that aren't relevant to the competitive community. The other like 20 things you guys are ignoring. I'll drop the EX character list addition. I don't care that much. I don't see why you guys are so hostile to it, but whatever. The secrets section actually is part of the GG guide, and it just lists that stuff as TODO. I'm going to go ahead and assume you guys actually don't know the answers to any of my questions about the game. I'll just ask pozerwolf, and be unable to add any of this information to the guide because no one with the ability to modify the guide has shown any interest in changing anything. To summarize: The guide does not explain, in terms of frames, how instant blocking and slashbacking work systematically. Some information about characters, like the amount of frames it takes to jump aren't in the system data. Some information in the character system data is just "???" Why are some numbers bolded in the system data? There is no explanation for this anywhere. How does pushing a character with your dash work? Seems to be exactly the same as normal, but it's not mentioned anywhere. Does guilty gear really run at 60 fps, as NTSC only shows 29.97 frames per second and pal shows only 25? It's certainly possible that the game runs at a higher internal frame rate than it shows, it would just be sort of unusual. What does this mean for all the frame data? Is it sending different data for each interlace field? If it is, does anyone know exactly how that works with the frame data? How does hit stop work as far as the combo system? how about the move level system (hit stun)? Does hit stun only affect movement as described in this section? http://www.dustloop.com/ggac/data/hitstun.html

I like to win matches using his forcebreak. It's pretty awesome. I beat Sol's overdrive (not dragon install, the other one) the other day, and it was pretty epic. Also, as far doing annoying things, I think the best is to just outpoke people with zappa. j.s on the sword is amazing, and for the ghosts you have 5s which staggers on counter hit. With all of them you can throw out random 2p,2k,5p,5k and when appropriate 6p. You do this by running up to your opponent, fd breaking outside of throw range and then pausing just long enough for your opponent to realize you aren't doing anything. Then you throw out one of these pokes and bam: flustered opponent. I'm especially fond of stuffing projectile attacks with 5p. Also with the ghosts you can do the air ghost explosion mixup. After an opponent has been knocked down, run up next to them, and then right as they are standing up jump over them and press H right as you jump over them. Since they are quickly being crossed up, it's almost impossible to reversal super punch this, and the explosions have frame advantage, so it's safe on block. If they start blocking this, then do as above, but follow it up either a second air ghost or 2H or you could airdash over them for a double cross-up exploding either one or two more ghosts (really fast crossup). You can also just jump straight up and do explosion, or empty jump into a throw. All of these things end in knockdown, so you can just do this over and over until they block it, in which case your still safe and you can just do frc ghost tosses. Don't start by trying the fancy mixups right out the gate, as most of the time your opponents just stay blocking in the same direction, and so don't actually switch blocking directions. Save that for when you've knocked them down 2-3 times in a row off the basic cross-up and follow it up with something fancy. Repeat till no one will play with you :'<

These characters all control space except for slayer. Faust is a reasonable choice from what people who play him tell me as he has "fisher-price combos" and can control space, though in spurts of spacial control. He's not as good at this as Ky, Eddie or Testament, but he comes close under skilled play and is vastly more random. Jam is a combo fest, and doesn't control space quite as well as most of the characters you listed, but like slayer she does ridiculous damage all the time because she does ridiculous damage all the time off of everything. May kind of combines these things, and is fine if you are okay with charge moves.

That's only a small part of what this thread is about. What about the rest of these questions? I mean I just figured that if anyone wanted to they should be able to write up their character's movelist and have it in the guide, for the sake of being comprehensive, but I'm not going to do it and frankly I don't think anyone else is going to bother either.

comprehensive? It's just movelists. You don't have to contribute to it, so I don't see why you're complaining at all. Even casual players want to know all the specials for their characters and what they do. I don't see any argument by you for why something that is part of the game doesn't deserve mention in that game's comprehensive guide.

Why do people call it SSF4? Isn't it just street fighter 4? Also, is anyone going to any of the major tournaments coming up? There's final round and evo and maybe others that'll have GG, so I'm game if it doesn't have shitty timing.

Why am I going to gamefaqs to find out any information about this game? And no, I'm not expecting frame data, but it would be sort of nice to know all of the hit properties, like wall stick, ground slide and so on, especially for moves that hit multiple times, like Potemkin's heat knuckle, which has a float effect when you RC it. Also, the system data page is missing the jump start up times which are listed in the 'charts only' section under intermediate. Don't know where else to find them. I tried find an explicit explanation of how instant blocking works and could not. How do I determine how many frames my block is reduced by? How exactly does it affect pushback (as in how can I determine exactly how far it pushes me back?) There are similar questions questions about slashback, though as far as I can tell, there is no pushback when you slashback an attack. How does pushback work exactly for regular blocking? Same for hits. How does dashing work to when you're dashing into a character? What about when the character is otg? Does it have different properties then? Why are some numbers bolded in the system data information? What should replace the question marks in the system data in the guard recovery section? I only brought up the throw invuln thing because it was the first thing I noticed, but there is plenty of information that we don't have, which compared to the detail of the existing data, was probably in the mook. Also, I've always wondered if guilty gear really runs at 60 fps, as NTSC only shows 29.97 frames per second and pal shows only 25. It's certainly possible that the game runs at a higher internal frame rate than it shows, it would just be sort of unusual. What does this mean for all the frame data? Is it sending different data for each interlace field? If it is, does anyone know exactly how that works with the frame data? Also, there should probably be a link to the hit stun section in the sections about guarding instant blocking, and combo sections. There should be mention of how the move level system works on each page so that players know about it when trying to determine frame advantage. Also, how does hit stop work with the move level hit stun additions? does it cancel them out? Actually, looking at it now, this information may be incorrect like it warns on the page... it doesn't really make sense if you look at Slayer's frame data, since most of his combos are links and for his K-K-K-236(9)p combo I certainly do not have 15 frames that I could press kick in at any time and have them combo together... I'm very confused... Is the hit stop time eating most of these frames? In slayer's case it would have no effect on that combo then, and it would be a regular 3 frame link. Does the SD information already include the level mechanic effects? The reason I bring any of this up is because this is the best system guide for guilty gear in the english language. I don't even know if there are others. I cannot easily find much of this information on gamefaqs. They are in the game, but tournament rules are not. There is no reason to exclude them if the community is willing to provide the information, as it is not worthwhile to go through the trouble of personally writing up all that information, or testing it. Also, tournament play makes up a tiny fraction of all guilty gear play, and there aren't very many tournaments anymore. The Austin regional that was after the SBO qualifiers had to cancel it's 3v3 event because there were only 6 entrants, and they were all from Austin, even though people had come from Oklahoma or further for SF4. There were too few for 1v1 as well. There is evident interest in EX characters from recent posts on this board. I see no reason that their movelist, with descriptions, couldn't go in the Secrets section. Also, please be creative with the descriptions. I want to go to the zappa section and see shit like "22H: then this crazy mofo fuckin' all seizures and some crazy shit and summons the dog. fer real. You need like 3 of them glowin orb motherfuckers (those shits are some fuckin' frowney fuck faces) or you just spaz out like your watching old pokemon"

The Accent Core guide, selectable by clicking guides at the top of the forum, is still a work in progress. I feel that as a community, we should progress from this point to one where any changes will be revisions, not additions. Edits: In the throw section, when describing times when characters are temporarily immune to throws, no mention is made of having throw invulnerability on wakeup. I'm not sure how many frames this lasts for, I think it is 7, but it is not mentioned at all on the page. The secrets section is incomplete. You can unlock EX, Shadow and Gold characters. In addition, you can unlock the slash version, and reload version of each stage. Unlocking EX characters: Method A: Beat that character's shadow version in Survival. Method B: After 48 hours of game play (not the game being on, but actual play) EX Chipp will be unlocked and for each hour after that an additional EX character will be unlocked in survival mode order. (Source: Gamefaqs) At this point I want to mention how easy it is to find out this information on a site that just aggregates game information, but to find it out on this site, which specializes in this guilty gear, you would have to make a thread about it. Shadow and Gold modes Every hour after all the EX characters are unlocked or 48 hours, whichever comes last. Press D with Reload colors for Shadow, Slash colors for Gold. Slash Stages and #Reload Stages Once all EX, and Shadow/Gold characters are unlocked and you've spent at least 48 hours a Slash level will be unlocked. Press R2 for the #R stage version. (Source: Gamefaqs) Fight EX, Gold characters in Arcade Mode Hold down the corresponding button while highlighting Arcade Mode and press Circle. Note: You can't use Gold or Shadow colors if you fight against Gold Characters. Hold down L2 Fight against EX Characters Hold down L1 Fight against Gold Characters You can also unlock artwork, however I don't care about artwork, so someone else can post that if you want in our guide. Movelists do not exist for EX characters. If anyone feels like contributing movelists, they can be added to the guide in the Secrets section by character, perhaps in this format. Chipp EX Movelist Input: Description of move, hit, air hit, counter hit, air counter hit and block properties.

You can easily have mechanics or moves where the consequence of error far outweighs benefits probabilistically. Slashbacking is a good example of this the majority of the time. There are instances when slashbacking a move is better than any other option, regardless of the chance of error. Zappa's dog bite is a good example of this, as it is unblockable, but you can slashback it. The most matches though it won't matter. Still slashbacking adds depth, but if it was poorly implemented it would be irrelevant, and for all practical purposes add no depth. Other examples of this include things like order-sol's lvl 3 100% tension overdrive. That move is difficult to execute, but it is worse than many other options available if you're at level 3 and have 100% tension, and so adds no depth to the game. So I can argue that difficult execution does not always have a direct impact on risk/reward, mostly when there is no effective reward for that execution, other options considered.

I don't know about harder than guilty gear, but it is pretty hard. Very technical space control, and a few execution intensive techniques, like wave dashing and roll canceling.