Wonderful World

[Greats]

And Orphe's 6P ... god damn that move is ridiculous. I still can't get past the fact that it has 22F startup (out of 100FPS - equivalent to 13.2F in a 60FPS game). Pretty crazy fast for an overhead that leads to combos easily.

I thought the values on the JP wiki were for a 60FPS environment? At least that's what I was under the impression of; since the values seemed much more accurate and there was some sort of note I couldn't really read on one of the frame data pages talking about conversion. I'm a little curious as to rather 6P is really 13F, because in 0.47 it was much faster at blatantly unreactable, but now it's quite a bit slower, but it retains the subtle startup.

[Pyanchar]

Thanks for the games earlier today, Greats. Actually won once when you swapped to a character you had to look at the input screen for. 8D

[Nuclear Cheese]

I thought the values on the JP wiki were for a 60FPS environment? At least that's what I was under the impression of; since the values seemed much more accurate and there was some sort of note I couldn't really read on one of the frame data pages talking about conversion. I'm a little curious as to rather 6P is really 13F, because in 0.47 it was much faster at blatantly unreactable, but now it's quite a bit slower, but it retains the subtle startup.

Are they 60FPS values? I assumed they were 100FPS since that's what the game runs at. Maybe I'll try some things out later and see how it all lines up.

EDIT: Just played around with it a bit, and it doesn't feel 13F fast in-game, so you may be right.

However, at the bottom of Duna's frame data page, it says something to the effect of:

"Data was gathered by taking screenshots at 50FPS, then averaging the values up to 100FPS". So yeah ...

[Xtra_Zero]

I'm having trouble fighting Neva. Her May-style 236S is big trouble for me. The move hits nearly fullscreen, it's air-unblockable, an overhead, I don't think her hitbox extends into the axe, it does a metric shit-ton of damage, pops you in the air for a tech trap with the same move, and can be followed up with 421S if it's blocked and you try to escape (which is ALSO air-unblockable). That followup is obviously punishable, but if I sit there waiting for it I'm going to be taking tons of chip damage from the axe-swing. Using Ryuza and Lynia.

tl;dr:

I suck, help plz.

[Nuclear Cheese]

Xtra_Zero - wish I could help you out, but I tend to be really bad at giving advice. I'm sure Greats can give some good advice - he usually responds in this thread, and he's also on the poverty IRC channel regularly. It also helps that he plays Neva, so he'll know what you're dealing with.

About the only advice I can give is that you generally want to avoid being in the air, due to all of Neva's air unblockable attacks.

Found some new stuff by tinkering around today. Cracked open Lunaport's replay format, so I can now script up replays using a hex editor.

I was just thinking - this could be used to get exact frame data. Script an attack, then have the opponent start guarding X frames later - if they guard it, X <= startup, if not X > startup. It'd be a stupid slow and tedious process, but it'd be more accurate that what the .jp wiki has (based on my translation of how they determined it).

We could also use a similar method for testing hitstun/guardstun/untechable times.

Using this it seems that (for Lunathia, at least) jump startup is actually 2F. Hitting jump, then an attack one or two frames later resulted in no attack; third frame later gives an attack. It's quick enough that I'd suspect everyone has the same, but it might be worth looking at further.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention this before. I don't know if it's known already (I haven't seen any mention of it before), but when watching replays, you can change the playback speed:

Press Q to make it playback really fast (it usually goes at around 6x speed for me)

Press E to make it go in slow-motion (it goes to about 25% speed)

Press W to return to normal speed.

[Sharakonta]

Likin the game so far just having a couple issues figuring out which moves are which. Damn me and my rusty Japanese *Rage fist at self*

[Greats]

tl;dr:

I suck, help plz.

Neva 236S is extremely slow startup and extremely slow recovery, 214S is the superior move at 7F startup and not quite as bad of recovery. As long as you're playing a tight neutral game where you're mostly staying low to the ground with low airdashes and ground movement 236S should never matter to you outside of tech traps. As for tech traps they are what they are, delay your air tech or don't air tech depending on which one it is and you may even be able to punish it. I don't reccomend ever teching after one of Neva's OTGs, since if you are that low to the ground she can actually 214S your airtech on reaction.

tl dr;

Stop jumping when you shouldn't jump and teching when you shouldn't tech, scrub.

[Greats]

you new guys need to try to get online at the same time so you can play someone not way better than you, work out a time you're generally free or something

[Pyanchar]

Hey other new guys, I'm free during the week from 2-4 and then after 7 eastern if you want to get some games in.

[Greats]

I found Bach's blog on the internets:

http://roroliocu.blog134.fc2.com/blog-entry-11.html#more

In this post he talks about his tier list, and gives his opinion on all of Neva's matchups.

He also gives character descriptions for newbies so if someone wanted to translate those they could go up here. For those of you who don't know Bach was an old IaMP player and he's one of the most seen players on the videos uploaded to Nico.

------------

Bach's tier list:

A: Sassari B: Neva, Linear B-: Corona, Duna, Remiusu, Orpheus C +: Arisufia, Servais C: Ryuuza, Aiuen, Runashia C-: Cielo

Bach's Neva matchups:

Sasari：３．５ - disadvantage

Lynia：５．０ - even

Corona：５．５ - advantage

Duna：５．５ - advantage

Lemius：４．５ - disadvantage

Orphe：４．０ - disadvantage

Alicephia：５．５ - advantage

Sabe：５．５ - advantage

Ryuuza：５．５ - advantage

Aiwhen：５．５ - advantage

Lunathia：６．０ - advantage

Cielo：６．０ - advantage

------------

While this is all just his opinion, I can't really argue against most of it since my experience with this game is actually much more limited. But if this is anywhere close to accurate it also means the game is incredibly balanced with Sasari being the only one standing out.

[agp24]

A to C-? Not bad. Not bad at all.

[Xtra_Zero]

I'm having a bit of difficulty figuring out Lynea's Original Action. Her OA is the ability to FRC for 25%? It's not marked in the US Wiki and I'm unsure if I'm reading the JP Wiki correctly.

[Greats]

I'm having a bit of difficulty figuring out Lynea's Original Action. Her OA is the ability to FRC for 25%? It's not marked in the US Wiki and I'm unsure if I'm reading the JP Wiki correctly.

That's correct, you just SP cancel normally but with stricter timing (still using the SP button). For movelist related stuff you can just check the HTML description that comes with the game in the 説明書 folder.

[Xtra_Zero]

Any suggestions for comboing out of Lynea's j.2H crossup? That IS what it's used for, right? I can't see any other use for it.

Anyway my best idea is j.2C j.236H(FRC) j.S -> ???. After that just about everything I try drops. *land* S works if you're spaced right, but after that the opponent is too far to follow up.

[Pyanchar]

Just tack on 214S for oki. Can't do much damage off it (for all I know anyway).

[Greats]

http://poverty.mizuumi.net/index.php/Orphe

Doing a little bit of experimenting with overall page layout on the Orphe page.

What do you guys think?

[agp24]

It looks pretty epic.

[Greats]

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=91B9E6CC6F4C1151

massive playlist of gameplay

[Xtra_Zero]

Something's been bugging me: Lynia's 236K seems to NEVER come out unless I do it from 5. If I do 41236K, I get regular kick. If I do 1236K, I get regular kick. Sometimes I can do 41236P and get 236P, but it NEVER works with the shield. This is extremely obnoxious because when I'm holding 4 or 1 is when I need it the most! It's not me, right? You really CAN'T do 236K from 4 or 1, can you?

In other news, Neva's 236S is nowhere near as unsafe as you make it out to be. When Ryuza blocked it point-blank, he couldn't punish it with 5P every time I tried. Also, about the move 214S you talked about earlier, did you mean 421S? The near instant move with the huge ass recovery period? Pretty sure that move takes longer to recover than 236S does.

[Greats]

Something's been bugging me: Lynia's 236K seems to NEVER come out unless I do it from 5. If I do 41236K, I get regular kick. If I do 1236K, I get regular kick. Sometimes I can do 41236P and get 236P, but it NEVER works with the shield. This is extremely obnoxious because when I'm holding 4 or 1 is when I need it the most! It's not me, right? You really CAN'T do 236K from 4 or 1, can you?

In other news, Neva's 236S is nowhere near as unsafe as you make it out to be. When Ryuza blocked it point-blank, he couldn't punish it with 5P every time I tried. Also, about the move 214S you talked about earlier, did you mean 421S? The near instant move with the huge ass recovery period? Pretty sure that move takes longer to recover than 236S does.

Hm I wasn't aware that any moves were left in the game with that bug. It works just fine from [1], so just input it from crouch block and you should be fine (tested it just now). It definitely doesn't work from [4] though, if a bug like that is still in the game it will probably get fixed in the next version when it comes out.

236S is safe on block unless you Fatal Switch. You can't really FS it unless she does it point blank so generally she doesn't do it until after a blockstring that pushes her back making it completely safe. And this is how it's normally used because it does good chip damage. 236S is also useful in the corner where your opponent isn't able to backdash out of range, and can catch people really late into a jump.

That being said I probably meant that it's incredibly unsafe to WIFF, meaning it's a dangerous move to use randomly unless you know it will hit or be blocked. If you want to bait a random 236S midscreen, you can jump or super jump forward, then double jump straight up. If you're on the ground and she's using it you can backdash. Whether or not you can actually punish it after one of these though depends on positioning and your character, for example anyone could punish a backdashed 236S in the corner if she did it close enough.

[Nuclear Cheese]

Hey guys, just did some testing using my replay editing technique ...

First off, I tested Orphe's 6P - it comes in at exactly 22F startup using the replay. This is consistent with the frame data from the .jp wiki, but I find it a bit odd - the move itself doesn't seem to be that fast. And, far as I can tell, the replay data is at 100FPS so

Also, I figured out the timings for all of Lynia's Rush Splashes - the data is on the wiki.

If there's other pieces of data you guys want me to look into using this, let me know (although, do understand that I have about a billion and a half things to do, so I might not get to it immediately ).

[Greats]

If there's other pieces of data you guys want me to look into using this, let me know (although, do understand that I have about a billion and a half things to do, so I might not get to it immediately ).

Actually there is.

While she may not be my best character, I feel that the Orphe wiki is currently the most complete, and I would like to make it the target of my new formatting. So if you could do her frame data next that would be great. I'm not going to be doing it right away or anything so no rush.

Hmm, but actually whether you choose to gather it on your own or just copy from the JP wiki is sort of up to you. Precise values are nice for some things but I don't feel it matters THAT much. I'd sort of just like to have usable values there, lol. It seemed like your tests from before lined up with values from JP wiki so that's good.

BTW, 22F startup in 100FPS or 60FPS? It wasn't very clear just want to make sure.

[Nuclear Cheese]

Actually there is.

While she may not be my best character, I feel that the Orphe wiki is currently the most complete, and I would like to make it the target of my new formatting. So if you could do her frame data next that would be great. I'm not going to be doing it right away or anything so no rush.

Hmm, but actually whether you choose to gather it on your own or just copy from the JP wiki is sort of up to you. Precise values are nice for some things but I don't feel it matters THAT much. I'd sort of just like to have usable values there, lol. It seemed like your tests from before lined up with values from JP wiki so that's good.

I'll get going on that. I'll probably just copy the data over from the .jp wiki, since that's a lot easier.

EDIT: Orphe's frame data is up there, copied from the .jp wiki. 6P is still bullshit.

BTW, 22F startup in 100FPS or 60FPS? It wasn't very clear just want to make sure.

Far as I can tell, replay data is 100FPS. I counted the # of frames (literally, input frames in the replay file) from hitting the button to the last moment back could be held and still guard the move, so the 22F is 22 frames of input data in the replay - that is, by my understanding, it is 22F at 100FPS.

[Sharakonta]

Ok, anyone here use Lynia, I'm having issues getting her combo's to work, probably cause I'm having issues getting the controls right.

Edit: And can some one PLEASE post what it should look like to get the Lunaport working?

[Greats]

Ok, anyone here use Lynia, I'm having issues getting her combo's to work, probably cause I'm having issues getting the controls right.

Edit: And can some one PLEASE post what it should look like to get the Lunaport working?

http://poverty.mizuumi.net/index.php/Wonderful_World_FAQ#Button_Notation

If you're actually having issues setting the buttons at all, I reccomend using either Joy2Key or Xpadder to bind your controls to keyboard inputs. Remember that if you're using keyboard inputs the "Joystick" option in the game menu must be disabled. If the game menu does not load, you can still change options via the Game.ini file (do it while the game is closed).

http://poverty.mizuumi.net/index.php/Lunaport

Here's a guide on setting up Lunaport, if you're having trouble with this you can download my wanwan folder here: http://www.mediafire.com/?vkm4cbvhev9e9ph

I didn't include j2k/xpad though.