TD Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 just block them; if you can ib, you can 5c him out of his next move: but beware that him using j.236d while he has you cornered leaves him in range for a 2d. so after ex swords it's a guessing game of sorts. jin's pressure in general is pretty intimidating, and mu dosent have many answers outside of AA's...
FlyingVe Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Well, EXIce is something everybody has to watch for. You can block his ambiguous cross-up trick on reaction, but its still hard. He has anti-zoning tools so this match can be annoying.
TD Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 yeah, jin is still pretty safe. :/ but this match is definitely fun stuff since you must always be on the lookout. jumping often fullscreen can actually do wonders since a fullscreen jin cannot do much to a jumping mu besides 214d (the laser will probably be out by then). it's good bait, but while in the air it's best to not press d too much because it still runs the same risks.
FlyingVe Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Also, his jC is faster than ours and has the same range. Annoying. Also, jin's 2A is a remarkably effective anti-air, you gotta time jump ins really well.
Lythium Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Jin can block 236D, and DP/throw if you approach. Save a burst in case you get caught in the corner in an unblockable setup. He can also throw Mu out of her 2B crossunder.
Aginor Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) First off, in the Jin match up personally I think it should be 5-5. There are some things going for Jin while there are others going for mu. EX air ice swords is not ambiguous. It's a reverse cross up ALWAYS. His mix up with that is j.d which always crosses up. If he goes for this you can always jump and air throw him. I've never seen a jin use D ice car to counter steins. More used to seeing C counter but D works too. Kind of a waste of meter but w/e. tbh, jin punishing imo would either be C ice car or wave super. Lastly, jin's pressure is only scary in the corner. Not necessarily midscreen because you can always get more space but jin's 6d makes it scary in the corner. Especially when it's spaced perfectly. If that's the case then, you can't really do much. If Jin doesn't space it right, you can mash out. EDIT: If he can throw you out of the cross under then every other character can throw you out of the cross up. They have the same get up time on neutral tech and same start up in terms of normal throws. Edited January 20, 2011 by Aginor
Lythium Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Wow, do not post anything on Dustloop when you are not awake, because you will read it half an hour later and feel really dumb. Oops, ignore this. Anyway, sorry to derail, I'll go back to lurking now. Edited January 20, 2011 by Lythium
Silfer Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 236a seems to work fine a little further than midscreen, stuffs some approaches. Thats the only advice (if you can call it that) that I can give, air to air is skewed on his favor. 5c seems to be usefull for footsies if spaced right.
TD Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I'll get to writing a simple overview if the match after work. Is there anyone who has in depth knowledge in everyone's blockstrings? It would really help so I can do the "opponent pressure" section more effectively. If not everyone... Anyone you know. (for example i know Rachel like the back of my hand )
TD Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 so uh... l'm going to postpone the mu v jin matchup for now. l'm pretty tired to finish it, not to mention tomorrow is the weekend... l'm sure i'll be able to finish it at work tomorrow but if not i'll definitely finish it monday. ve, how's that proofreading coming along?
FlyingVe Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Oh, I was waiting for something else. I'll finish the Mu vs Rag's ASAP then.
Zeromus_X Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Hey everyone. I've been writing up stuff for the Mu section on the Mizuumi wiki instead of studying, so I'd like to hear your feedback: http://bb.mizuumi.net/wiki/Mu I added stuff for spacing/use of normals, zoning strategy, oki setups, and some combos that I still have to finish (thanks LK for the template), since "datASS" isn't too informative. I hope it'll be a good reference of stuff to print out for my own use for players that want to learn Mu. Most of this stuff is already available here on Dustloop, but is scattered among the Guide, General Discussion, Video, Combo, and Oki/Setup thread and can be hard to find. Most of it should still apply to CS2, though obviously the 3C 2B bnb is gone and our corner combos will be a bit different. Maybe we can add tempest and Ve's matchup strats someday? Also regarding Mu vs Jin, I think Jin's 2D deserves a mention. He can go under your lazers and bombs, and it's pretty fast and good to punish you setting up. Edited January 23, 2011 by Zeromus_X
Aginor Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 As for the wiki, there were a few things I noticed. -SoD has 4 levels and not 5. Pretty sure....I'd double check that. -Mu has defensive options. Not really limited either. e.g. DP, 6a, 2c -Like you said 5a is a quick AA but not really for obvious jump-ins. If it was an obvious jump in, then you'd be doing 6a or 2c for the higher damage. You're only using 5a as an AA for it's start up. -2a should be used to punish unsafe things when other moves can't. An example of this is when you IB. When you IB the fastest moves you have are DP, 5a, 2a. You got that but it isn't used to punish poor spacing or whiffed moves really. You could use it to punish a whiffed DP but you have other moves that are better for that. -What happened to 5b? -2b is also good as a starter because of it's gatlings too. -ad.b j.c on an opponent only hits them if the opponent has a wide hitbox. -I wouldn't say j.b is a really good air to air when you have j.a, j.c and air throw. -You don't keep the opponent away with j.a. It's for like a quick air to air when they are right next to you. -Mu's air throw doesn't "vacuum" opponents. She just has a huge air throw range. Tied for best with Lambda. -For the zoning section, when to use them is pretty important too. Otherwise, from scanning the wiki, it looks pretty good.
Zeromus_X Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) That SoD chart was there before I started editing, since I never really messed with the different levels of SoD I just assumed it was correct...I'll have to correct it later. For 5B, I honestly don't really use it/know how to use it for spacing so I didn't put it in yet...how do you recommend it be used? Thank you for the feedback, I'll be sure to add/change that stuff. Edited January 23, 2011 by Zeromus_X
FlyingVe Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 When your closer I use 5B because it's a smidge faster and can stop jump-outs a bit because of hit's angle. If I'm further away I use 2B because it has a bigger range. It's situational I guess.
Aginor Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 5b also has more gatling options than 2b and also has more range than 6a.
FlyingVe Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 It also wiffs on some crouchers at that longer range...
TD Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 good stuff neo. l actually stumbled upon this the other day while looking for rachel and tsubaki's move descriptions; didnt figure you wrote it though. maybe you can help ve and l out with the matchup stuff, now that the weekend is over.
FlyingVe Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Oh, I did the proofing, did you want me to format it and stuff too? Make it look pretty? (DL formatting of course) Zero should help out, his Mu is beast, and his zoning strats are the best I've played. I'm much more aggressive so he will have a different (quality) view on how to approach things.
TD Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 could you, please? *bats eyes* havent played neo in quite a bit but yes he is good and a (third) good opinion on things will never hurt. the only reason l cant format these things myself, is due to my computer -- if you feel like things need to be taken out of what l send you to make it better your welcome to.
Innolis Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Hello gentlemen, I started playing a couple of months ago and picked up MU as main. First competitive FG I've got into, so bear with me if I say stupid things. Just wanted to introduce myself (starting a new thread just to say hi didnt look like a good idea). I'll probably be bothering people on the matchup forums with some questions. Anyways, nice to know you all and have a good one.
Zeromus_X Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Welcome! Have fun with Mu; she's kind of hard but we can always try and answer any questions you have.
TD Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 well you popped up at a great time. we were just starting to fill out the matchup threads, in fact i'm finishing jin's up right now. hello!
TD Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 hey ve, i'm ready to start on noel... wondering about your editing progress.
FlyingVe Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) Haven't started on Jin yet. A combination of being busy and lazyness. Do you have any idea how we'll change threads? Should I just forward to Arginor? Edit: Random thought's on the Noel matchup. -Noel is really fast and it makes it more difficult to zone her with steins. So don't go overboard with placing them because Noel can rip across the screen and tag you before they fire. -Noel's 2D beats almost all of your ground normals. As a result I don't do alot of frame traps. -Your standard answer to her drive should either be DP, or IB>Backdash>FC6C sometimes you don't even need the IB. Luna gave me some stuff I'll try to find it and forward it. Edited January 26, 2011 by FlyingVe
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