[CS1] Mu-12 vs Tager

[whitevoid]

CT rearing her pretty face.

RC v. TG 7-3. No risks and you already won.

I will admit however, l like rushing down. Fuck 360/720, l ain't respecting that shit. Sure it's pretty ignorant, but it's my aggression that's going to get op's blocking.

And if Tager is blocking me up close, scared to 360, the match is miiiine! >=)

For that reason, I will firmly stand by it NOT being 7-3. It's not CT Nu/Rachel bad.

[TD]

l think you misread.. lt's exactly like CT's matchup...

Tager, in all honesty can't do shit against a Mu who turtles and jumps his SB's, skill or no skill Tager can't hax her ass over for him to tap, nor can he even run.

Look at CT. Rachel kept him at bay with wind and... rushdown, actually o.0. Nu had a flurry of swords just waiting. Mu is a mix of both rushdown and trap, a deadly combination of Tager's nightmares from CT.

l'd sat at LEAST 6.5.

[whitevoid]

I didn't misread, I disagree. Look at CT and look at the long list of total BS that Rachel and Nu have that Mu does not have. If you want to say 6.5, I guess I won't argue. I just don't really like half-points personally.

But my point is that it's still not CT bad. Just saying that "Tager can't do anything against someone who turtles and can avoid sparkbolt" is just describing why Tager is Tager in almost every match-up. I mean it's not like he can run in any of his other match-ups.

[mundus]

I just find it funny how you say Tager can't do anything when every time you jump a spark bolt is guaranteed to hit at least your guard if Tager knows what he is doing. This matchup is in Mu's favor its no denying that, but i still say its a better matchup than Lambda for Tager since you know her zoning actually hurts. The Tager player can just be patient and get spark meter if you zone after that you will be magnetized whatever you do, unless the Tager fucks up, once magnetized 2D will beat just about everything you can do except melee attacks and air attacks, you don't want to be in the air while magnetized. Also if any melee hit whiffs its a free 5D counter hit.

[MisoSowee]

I just find it funny how you say Tager can't do anything when every time you jump a spark bolt is guaranteed to hit at least your guard if Tager knows what he is doing. This matchup is in Mu's favor its no denying that, but i still say its a better matchup than Lambda for Tager since you know her zoning actually hurts. The Tager player can just be patient and get spark meter if you zone after that you will be magnetized whatever you do, unless the Tager fucks up, once magnetized 2D will beat just about everything you can do except melee attacks and air attacks, you don't want to be in the air while magnetized. Also if any melee hit whiffs its a free 5D counter hit.

People thought I was crazy when I said this >_>

[TD]

I've sj'd SB before. ln fact i've beat it out before wit steins.

And of course you're going to get magnetized st least once, because if Tager couldnt do even tha it would be sad. Once most of the cast is magd, 2d/5d is bad. But it can be beat out by Mu. lt does happen. She's not really hopeless while mag'd like say... Rachel. She can deal with Tager in any situation imho.

But eh. The numbers aren't final yet. It's most likely going to just be 6.5, though l still strongly think it couuld (should) be 7.

[Synthesis]

Here's another fun fact:

Tager can sledge through your 6C in blockstrings. Here are things Tager players don't know about Mu.

If Tager uses an A sledge, Mu can reversal upon reaction and either beat or clash Tager's sledge. If it clashes, hit another DP and you'll knock him to the other side of the screen and he'll have to make it back in again.

If he does a B sledge, you can cancel into SoD for a counterhit and send him to the other side of the screen. He'll have to run the gauntlet again.

If you're doing anything and he uses SB, you can reaction with her reversal and negate the hit AND the magnetism. You just need to pay attention.

This is horrible for Tager. Tager has options, yes, and Mu can make mistakes, but these pure and simple options against him make the matchup worse than 6-4. By a reasonable amount.

[Maho]

It's kinda the same as you can do with Dambda canceling a D into gravity if he sledges through, but well i'm pretty sure it's not 100% guaranteed on A Sledge.

The problem is that you can't cancel really instantly the 6C on the sledge autoguard if it goes through the startup of the move, if for example you do (not max range) 5C 6C and Tager IBs the 5C then 236A, you'll get hit before being able to cancel into dp.

If that happens from max range 5C, the A sledge will first go through the startup then clash with the active frames of 6C, then even if he knows it will happens he will have to guess if you're going for DP or SoD as he hasn't options that beat both here.

It can look a bit unrealistic but well as a Tager player myself, i sometimes baited the Lambda version of this by 236A instead of what the guy might have see as a predictable 236B, making the gravity whiff for a free punish so well it could happen, but i think it won't much for one reason.

Actually i think you shouldn't use 6C blockstrings much on Tager for that reason, he can backdash it pretty easily, and that's a free spark for him if it happens, or at least it gives him time to close in thanks to 6C horrible whiff recovery. The only way to punish it would be to delay (a lot) 6C to bait it, but it isn't risk free.

On the other hand max range 5C into SoD is safe from spark punish both on IB and if he backdashes the SoD, and that one primer less for him.

[Heroic_Legacy]

Tested it just now. If Mu is magnetized and we backdash 6C

720 drags her into it.

And if a clash occurs everyone gets another input. Not just you. So by doing another DP you're just telling me to XYH and then 360B you for making my life slightly easier.

[Maho]

For backdash 6C and 720 you need to be not too far, won't work from ranged 5C, one fun thing if she's magnetised is Tager can 360A through 6C after 5C to catch her from some distance (like round start distance or so).

720 can do the same from max range but it's way harder as it has less invuln frames and need to be timed perfectly to go through 6C, but anyway this is really risky as it's good bye 7k+ if Tager get hit.

Note that 360A can do the same for 5C SoD if this isn't spaced properly (IB needed on 5C), 720 can't and allways get hit there (unless of course you're close enough to not need the pull).

[mundus]

Never use 6C in a block string, as Heroic Legacy explained even if your DP clashes and you do another one Tager will most likely just block it and get a free 360B or 720. If you do 6C in a block string and you fight a decent Tager player you will get punished every time, so just don't do it.

[Devdan]

Taking the 'stay away, don't take any dumb risks' advice, I was able to beat some Tager with a 45% win ratio on ranked, with about one 360's worth of health remaining both rounds. I basically did nothing but set steins, explode steins, and sword of decimation (with some 6C mixed in, because I'm a fool). Then I fought a better Tager, and he got a perfect on me the first round. So bad against Tager, I don't think I've ever not been hit by a 720 so far. I thought from 1/3 of the screen away 5C would beat it out, but nope.

[Maho]

It's not 100% guaranteed you will get punished out of a clash because it just opens a guessing game, but well it's not like 6C was awesome to do in blockstring after all so why take a risk?

[Heroic_Legacy]

Cause people wanna shit on tager as much as they can making even simple things that don't make much sense worthwhile if a clash occurs cause mashing DP is gud. Not to mention it's always smart to use a projectile attack on Tager like 6C. Cause you know, you bait sledge with it. Tager will NEVER bait the 6C and punish it.

[Synthesis]

Mashing DP is rarely ever good at all! It's just good if you know the situation.

Also, in reference to using 6C in blockstrings, you can do it every once in a while to catch a Tager off guard, but I would never suggest using it regularly because that guessing game is indeed a risk. I'm just saying that if you want to use a 6C instead of a SoD so you can cancel it and place steins, then go ahead but do it seldomly. If he sledges the 6C, reversal.

This places Tager into a guessing game after 5C of whether or not I'm going to 6C or SoD. If he attempts to sledge because he thinks I'll be doing a 6C instead of a SoD, I send him back to the other side of the screen. That's what the occasionaly 6C is for.

[Heroic_Legacy]

What's stopping me from just turtling and waiting for spark bolt the whole matchup?

[TD]

Stein setups into soviet damage.

[FlyingVe]

What's stopping me from just turtling and waiting for spark bolt the whole matchup?

Well, the way I figure it, if Tager turtles and waits for spark bolt, and Mu zones and plays around spark-bolt, Mu wins.

Also, because of Tagers awful mobility, you can actually set up lasers like you would for oki and get some (almost) free mixups on Tager.

[gli]

Is it unrealistic to primer break Tager if he decides to sit for Spark Bolt?

[FlyingVe]

If he has spark bolt, play around it. You can super jump around and place stiens up high. Plus, you can jump cancel stiens on the ground to bait bolt. But getting mag'd sucks, so I would just avoid it. You can uses the timing on the laser strikes ([D],214D,236D) to try a mixup or just put more space between you.

[whitevoid]

"Playing around Sparkbolt" is like saying "just block Arakune in Fever Mode." Okay, not quite the same thing but it's a very strong over-simplification. If you can play around Sparkbolt, then you're just way better than the Tager player.

[FlyingVe]

Spark bolt is very easy to play around. If you get hit by it outside of a combo, you messed up.

It does shut down some options, but in Mu's case, it doesn't cripple her game all that much.

[whitevoid]

No one is saying it "cripples her game." But even on block the move does worlds for Tager and if you are playing around it, Tager is suddenly dictating what you do, limiting your strategy making it still an effective move. I still feel it's firmly in Mu's favor, but I don't think it's really all that worse than many other characters in CS.

[mundus]

You can't play around the spark bolt with Mu except just standing still and DP when he does it (unless you get magnetized anyway not sure how her DP works). Since the moment you are in the air you will get sparkbolted before you touch the ground again, staying on the ground will also get you sparkbolted. I think i have missed like 1 spark bolt ever vs Mu and it was cause it got interrupted by a laser. Remember as long as you get magnetized it has already done its job. Also even if your DP really makes you immune to the magnetism, just standing there doing nothing will just make Tager gain ground by walking, if you do anything he can spark bolt on reaction.

[Synthesis]

You can delay how you fall for a very long time when you jump by placing steins. This forces Tager to guess when you are going to land or guess when you are in range for sparkbolt. He also has to guess whether or not the laser will hit him out of his sparkbolt. Also, when Mu lands from jumping an placing steins, she can land and DP on reaction if he sparkbolts.

Waiting for sparkbolt is NOT a viable tactic. Stacking steins on him using 6[D] will break his guard fast when used in conjunction with 214D, so he MUST approach. He can't simply block or wait you out to get that sparkbolt.

And that being said, if his only answer to Mu's zoning is to hope he lands a sparkbolt, then that only solidifies this as a horrid matchup. One gimmick isn't enough to even it out.