[CS1] Arakune vs. Mu-12

[FlyingVe]

Though skye and I disagree on how bad this matchup is, his advice is spot on. Patients pays off.

Also, your sig... you totally took that out of context.

[Skye]

I thought it was funny. I know what you were talking about.

[Synthesis]

Skye: Honestly, to be perfectly honest if I knock you away I'm going to (5D 6D j.5D j.6D land)xn until you come to me. There isn't enough time there to throw out a cloud, but it isn't the best formation for preventing your approach, so as soon as an Arakune begins to approach, I switch up the formation to 5D 4D j.5D j.2D, potentially popping them or throwing out a 236D laser if you get too close in order to force you to block, RTSD for a short while, and then run away rinse and repeat. Not gonna lie, I played a bunch of Arakune matches this morning (a good Ara on Ranked, forgot the name) and I can solidly say that it is probably 5.5 - 4.5 if not 6 - 4 Mu's favor. Her zoning is actually really good against Ara as long as you switch the formation based on position.

Also, the first position, (5D 6D j.5D j.6D)xn also works if you teleport. I can just IABD away to where you originally were and it essentially devolves into tag, only you're it and I have a field of lasers that hone in on you.

[Badguy]

i agree with synthesis.

and if someone could honestly repost these 100% curse combos on Mu i'd like that, but honestly i can flawlessly do these combos on ragna, litchi, and tager for some reason, everyone else is really hard =S (bang is pretty easy too)

[InspectorOda]

Okay, all u-12 FC combos end with jc > jA > jC > j2A > 5D > hjc > jA > jC > jD after the first 5D.

For 5C, you can do any of the following starters :

FC5C > jc > delay jA > jB > jC > j2B >5D

FC5C > jc > jA > delay jB(1) > jC > j2B >5D

FC5C > jc > jA > jB(2) > jC > j2B > 5D

All of these have strict timing and will usually only work on a mid to close range 5C hit, not far. If you get a far hit, just go for 70% after the starter.

For 2C, there are three different combos depending on the distance you hit u-12, and where she is after the 5A relaunch (always go for the highest possible relaunch).

If she's in front of you, then do FC2C > 5A > jc > jA > delay jB(1) or jB(2) > jC > j2B > 5D. This combo doesn't work at extreme long distances, but for those you can just 6A or 5D into an easy 100% curse anyways.

If you crossed her up during the 2C, then do FC2C > 5A > 8jc > jA > jC > j2A > 5D.

If she's behind you when you use 5A (extremely situational, but it can happen), then do FC2C > 5A > 8jc > jA > j2C > 5D.

If you want FC combos for everyone except console characters, the jwiki lists them along with helpful notes, assuming you can read Japanese. I'm pretty sure kousaka and Zeero made tutorial videos for every character also, so you should also check the video thread.

[Skye]

Skye: Honestly, to be perfectly honest if I knock you away I'm going to (5D 6D j.5D j.6D land)xn until you come to me. There isn't enough time there to throw out a cloud, but it isn't the best formation for preventing your approach, so as soon as an Arakune begins to approach, I switch up the formation to 5D 4D j.5D j.2D, potentially popping them or throwing out a 236D laser if you get too close in order to force you to block, RTSD for a short while, and then run away rinse and repeat. Not gonna lie, I played a bunch of Arakune matches this morning (a good Ara on Ranked, forgot the name) and I can solidly say that it is probably 5.5 - 4.5 if not 6 - 4 Mu's favor. Her zoning is actually really good against Ara as long as you switch the formation based on position.

Also, the first position, (5D 6D j.5D j.6D)xn also works if you teleport. I can just IABD away to where you originally were and it essentially devolves into tag, only you're it and I have a field of lasers that hone in on you.

Try not to play theory fighter.

Arakune has long ranged options as well.

[LordSpectreX]

I don't see how this is at all in Arakune's favour. Arakune's zoning is terrible.

Sky Cloud is useless because Mu's never need to jump that high.

Ring Cloud is useless because going through the lasers is suicide and 44 teleporting leaves to wide open to attack and lasers.

Homing Cloud is good. But is slow as hell, and to be honest, Mu's can just jump over it and do it again when it comes back.

J.D is usless because a) it doesn't go the entire screen and b) Mu's often summon lasers in the air.

Bell Bug get beaten by lasers. Pointless.

2D is useless, most of her ground moves have further range.

Meanwhile, Mu's lasers are constantly firing. They're dangerous to go near because of the explosions and the special breaks guard primers. While none of Arakune's zoning move can.

Pressure is pointless to, since you have to get past her DP and her massive range, all the while dodging her lasers. Any one of her main attacks leads to 2.6k+. I just don't see how this is in Arakune's favour. I don't.

I mean, against the right player, I find this matchup harder than Lambda. Lambda's swords are slow, and whiffing them makes her vunerable. Plus, only one sword can be out at a time, which makes fakeouts useful. She lacks precision in the air, making her vunerable to j.D while on the ground. Plus, she can't zone you and pressure you at the same time. The only reason why I would say Lambda is harder than Mu is because Ground Swords can snipe you out of the air.

[Senkei]

MU's damage output is a lot more consistent than lambda's. This match is not in arakune's favor. She controls way too much of the screen, great defensive options and fatal counters. I dunno what Mu's you play but the one I do actually has a brain and doesn't have all these "holes" that supposed to be in her zoning game.

I'd say it's either even or in her favor, Arakune's long range curse abare is greatly nerfed due to her hit box (also making combo's harder). Getting that long range bug hit from across the screen really helps when she sets up her zoning but getting a combo from it is damn near impossible.

[LordSpectreX]

I agree. I don't see the gaps in their zoning. The only one I can see is between destroying the lasers and setting them up again. But that gives me 3 seconds, at best. Time for one cloud. And if it isn't the homing one, then all I've done is wasted time. Skye says be patient, but I don't see how you can be when her lasers can break guard primers. Not to mention that the special laser has fantastic homing. And from what I've played, she can summon a laser and hit you with it faster than you can summon a cloud and guard.

[Skye]

I wanna ballpark it around even

I understand that you don't agree with me, but where the hell did you get the idea that I thought it was in his favor?

If Mu's zoning was air tight, Arakune would have no way to get in, making the match up in the league of Nu, which is not even/slight disadvantage.

[LordSpectreX]

I would almost put this matchup on the same level as Nu. Drive may not be as airtight, but the fact she can stay in the air most of the time, has a DP, a great Air-to-Air J.C (I'd argue it's better than Hakumen's,) and can pressure WHILE zoning make this matchup really hard. 6/6.5 in her favour. Also, as Senkai pointed out, at least during curse, Lambda is fucked. Because of Mu's stupid ass hitbox, it makes bugs from a distance a pain to do.

[LordSpectreX]

Let's change the discussion for a moment. Let's just say that Skye is right and her zoning is flawed. I don't think it is, but let's say so.

If that, what on earth do you do if she rushes you down? It's almost like Hakumen, and her damage output isn't terrible either. She can do 4k easy. j.2C stops you escaping from corner pressure. j.C is as good as Hakumen. Her overhead actually leads into damage. She's faster and she has a DP. A good one that from what I've found, is unpunishable if you're in the air at the time of blocking. She has lasers attacking all the time, so it's hard to get away, and her 6C punishes backdashes.

[Skye]

Let's change the discussion for a moment. Let's just say that Skye is right and her zoning is flawed. I don't think it is, but let's say so.

If that, what on earth do you do if she rushes you down? It's almost like Hakumen, and her damage output isn't terrible either. She can do 4k easy. j.2C stops you escaping from corner pressure. j.C is as good as Hakumen. Her overhead actually leads into damage. She's faster and she has a DP. A good one that from what I've found, is unpunishable if you're in the air at the time of blocking. She has lasers attacking all the time, so it's hard to get away, and her 6C punishes backdashes.

In this regard you'll have to dodge her attacks, don't try to jump out, and backdash when you get the chance, I understand how her 6C works, but if she whiffs an attack due to your backdashing, she won't have the time to actually hit you with it, you'll block it at worst, if I recall correctly, her DP is super unsafe on block, so I don't quite understand how it's unpunishable for you, learn to IB it, that way it's more beneficial, because you get even less recovery IBing something in the air than you do on the ground. Her steins aren't doing anything if she's not setting them, and they are easy to dodge, due to Arakune's air mobility, he can avoid lasers and Mu at the same time if you know what you're doing. From what I've seen Mu's mixup is worse than Ragna's, if you spend a little time to learn how to block, then her melee game isn't all that good as far as pressure goes.

Still, the match up revolves around being patient and biding your time, the stage is neutral if the lasers can't hit you, and Arakune has more tools than anyone else to make sure they don't.

[LordSpectreX]

I just don't understand what I'm being patient for. For one type cloud to hit her? When she can just jump over it over and over again? Plus, she can chip health. Arakune can't. Sometimes the homing cloud doesn't come out for many attempts.

I don't really get the mixup comment either. Hakumen's mixup is terrible too. But I didn't complain about the mixup. I complained that j.2C just resets pressure at the end of a blockstring.

[FlyingVe]

Mu can do really big damage, but only off a few specific, freak hits (like naked point blank 3C, or an explosion, or FC 6C). However, none of these attacks should really be hitting you in a neutral situation. I know its cliche, but LRN2BLK. When she isn't in an oki situation her mixup is really bad, if you block you should be fine.

Mu's 2C should only be stopping corner escape if your idea of escape is holding 7A+B. If you block her 2C, Mu doesn't have many options afterwards. She can pretty much just JC or SoD. Either way, you've given yourself an opening to get away.

Her DP leaves her at -20, which, in the air would be -25 (I believe). You can punish with anything you want. Land shark into full curse seems like a good option. Also, her jC is just a crapy version of Haku's jC and Jin's jC. It's still a good attack, but it only leads to big damage on CH.

Lastly, fighting along-side lasers is what Mu does, but it only works if you give her time to set up. This is harder for Kune because he's slow, but if you don't giver her time to do stien shenanigans her "rushdown" is alot easier to deal with.

[LordSpectreX]

Thanks a lot. , btw, I meant j.2C, not 2C. :P

[LordSpectreX]

I meant that towards both of you. >_> Hence why I didn't use his name directly. Though I did intend to use 'guys' at the end of thanks a lot. I do appriciate the advice Skye. I really do.

[FlyingVe]

Oh, in that case, j2C if it's done as an instant air, is pretty unpunishable on normal block, but it still as alot of recovery. If it's done as anything but an instant air, then wollop her for it.This is a good escape time. Wall teleport maybe? (I don't play Kune).

[LordSpectreX]

Oh, in that case, j2C if it's done as an instant air, is pretty unpunishable on normal block, but it still as alot of recovery. If it's done as anything but an instant air, then wollop her for it.This is a good escape time. Wall teleport maybe? (I don't play Kune).

Does that apply to j.C by any chance?

[FlyingVe]

Does that apply to j.C by any chance?

Nope, jC is super pro. If you block that on the ground, you're pretty much gonna have to block a mixup. Even if you block it in the air it isn't great. your just not gonna punish jC. One weakness to Mu's jC is it's very hard to hit crouching opponents with it. LandShark could be a ballsy way to stuff it, but perhaps your 2B would work. Also, 5C is also a possibility, but laser cover fire makes it very hard to AA Mu.

[Blade]

I got a question about "combo correcting" for Mu-12:

It was mentioned in this thread that you can use 5C between DBug1 and DBug2, but, in some midscreen situations I'll do: j.D/j.3D>5D(by then they are cursed)>j.A>j.A>j.B(2hit)>j.C>j.D(A/B/C/D bugs hit in the first part), once Dbug1 is just about done, I do 5C (let Dbug2 hit), j.6C, j.236C (D shortly after), 2nd DBug1 hits...I land and do 5C (2nd DBug2 hits) j.6C>j.236C

But at this point, if I'm midscreen sometimes a 6D DBug1 comes out and wiffs Mu altogether. I don't know why this happens as it doesn't seem to happen with any other character I do it to. It's like in order to continue spinny loop I have to be in the corner somehow.

Also, what are some non-FC Diveloop combos on Mu-12?

And lastly, say I warped and used j.2A and it counterhits, what would be the best thing to do in terms of Oki to slow down Mu and prevent further Ds?

[ZONG_one]

You should be using 6D at all times in any pinwheel loop anyway.

Unless it's the first rep, and you started with your back against the wall. And stop doing j.6C > j.236C.

j.236C > 6C bug hit > 6D Bug hit > j.C > j.214C > 5C > Dbug hit up > j.236C > rinse and repeat.

Best thing to do on CH j.2A/any dive.

Meter: Curse is greater than oki: RC > 5D > dive loop/j.A > j.B > j.C > j.D or whatever.

No meter: I dunno. Learn a different character because this matchup is ass anyway.

[LordSpectreX]

No meter: I dunno. Learn a different character because this matchup is ass anyway.

Probably the best advice you can possibly give. :P

[ZONG_one]

You get no complete safe oki anyway because she has DP.

Anything is a risk. Your best oki is to bait it. Be convincing.

Probably the best advice you can possibly give. :P

:]

I'm dead serious, too.