[CS1] Taokaka vs Lambda

[Ronove]

Thought I'd start this thread since I'm currently learning this matchup and is unexpectedly proving to be harder than I thought it would.

How do you guys deal with her corner pressure? Her 236C should be "unsafe" but even if it doesn't hit it will still keep Tao locked in position (and it's an air unblockable) not to mention that it does have a huge hitbox. That move coupled with swords and her 236D~C is really annoying since it gets really easy for them to cause guard break (especially if Tao used a burst).

Any tips on how to move around efficiently? As hilarious as it may sound I felt I had less trouble manouvering around Nu.

[CakeWasBannedd]

Even if you IB 236C, it's pretty safe for Lambda. The thing with this matchup is to mixup your approach as much as possible to mess with the Lambda player. 214D, [2]7/8/9D, 4D are all pretty rarely used in other matchups because of how unsafe they are, but they prove useful in this one if the Lambda is consistently punishing your other ways of approaching.

[Ronove]

Hmm. They're not really good options, IMO. Or atleast with the little amount of experience that I gathered, her 236C is really good at shutting down Tao's movements when approaching from full screen. Like, even if you try to bait it that move truly has a huge hitbox so chances are that it might still catch you and lock you down anyway, and worst thing of all is that if it does hit it will lead to one of her most painful setups/combos.

I think that rather than "mixing things up" with movement (because a good Lambda will zone you or make you choose a path most of the times) would be to try to not give them the opportunity of starting their annoying hit'n'run guard breaking game. It's like, stick on them and try not let them get away, but it's still hard since Tao's pressure game does have forced holes and even with better ~B cancels the opponent can still look for chances to escape (especially Lambda).

Of course, it's not a bad matchup per se. Lambda's damage output is low unless she hitconfirms from a 236C, and I'd say if we manage get into a taunt loop and end it with oki ender we're basically on the good way to either force them to waste their burst right away or win the round. But it's also true that Lambda benefits way more from burst usage in this matchup compared to Tao. Tao is at a huge risk of getting guard broken while Lambda barely risks anything unless Tao wants to use 50% meter for her Hexa Edge and you feel like splashing it to attempt a guard break...

It looks pretty even but it's somehow not as "easy" to figure out compared to the previous CT matchup.

I'd really like to hear TaoFTW's and Rin's opinion (and tips) on this given that they've played experienced Lambda players.

[XDest]

Even though it's air unblockable, it still doesn't really hit somebody that's at superjump height, just normal. The fact that you have the most mobile character in the game means that you can at least make 236C whiff, then punish that on the way down. You can superjump, triple jump, 2D, jump then D~C, etc... to get to the height where it will whiff. I'm sure you can think of several other ways. And on the way down, you can always j.B now because of its speed and hitbox.

As well, it has a deceptively slow startup compared to Tao's drive. Tao's 5D is 15 frames startup... Lambda's 236C is 30! That's twice as slow obviously. Even Tao's 6C is faster than that at 23 frames. The worst thing to do in this matchup is to sit there, block and let Lambda guard break you. Be vigilant.

[Taokakaism]

Against Lambdas, don't be afraid to IAD.

IAD is a VERY VERY useful tool against their 236A/B/C.

There's always the fear of

"If i jump, i might get hit, I will stay put"

While that is true, rushing out seems like a stupid and ridiculous idea, it's probably the best one.

If you're a little daring, and I kid you not, mash 2A if you think a 236C is coming.

I was playing casually with my friend trying new stuffs and apparently, 2A was VERY VERY effective. You stop their whole attack and get a CH.

2A x 2 for a hit confirm.

What I have with against Lambdas is that when approaching from, their 5A/6A actually beats ALOT of things although they are pretty slow.

What I've come up with for this, is to play a safe land game at least majority of the time. Some lambdas may summon sword spikes after a knockdown from a screen away, Taokaka's really versatile and can 2x/3x jump away from that, but assuming if you want to face it head on, do a 214B projectile throw. The sword spikes will disappear lol.

Don't be afraid to try out new things against opponents! Sometimes running away isn't the best idea, but running towards them certainly is!

[Ronove]

I swear I got counterhit by her 236C while attempting to 2D... it's like, the vertical hitbox of that move was still able to catch Tao during the 2D animation while I couldn't do anything to avoid it/block it.

But thanks for the tip regarding the superjump, I should rely on this way more with this matchup.

Oh, I wanna try that CH 2A as well. If it works then it's problem solved, Lambda players will have to be a little less reckless in their guard breaking game. And I didn't know that her B projectile could stop her spike chaser! That's good.

As for her 5A, it's her ghetto antiair, but it's actually pretty easy to bait with jumps and feints. That and I think that a well timed j.B should still beat it.

her 2B is still pretty good (especially with a Lambda player that has good footsies), although it doesn't really get into any dangerous combo it will allow them to combo -> knockdown and gradually push you to the corner. Her corner pressure game is really bad for Tao specially without meter. Even if you do manage to escape chances are that part of your guard primers will be gone.

And yeah I agree that IAD works well a few times, but as "simple" as it may sound sometimes even just a plain 5D~B from full screen or a quick dash from a shorter distance is enough if you sense that they're going zone the air with swords.

[TaoFTW]

All the matchup experience you had from playing against v13 WILL apply in this one. It was 4.5/5.5 back in CT. Now I find it 4/6, arguably 3.5/6.5, in Taokaka's favor for many reasons:

1) Mobility > Zoning; Lambda has an - exceedingly - hard time trying to zone out Tao because of her mobility. You can jump over swords, crawl under them, or drive past them. For example, if a LA player expects you to jump, they'll use a 2d. Your answer to their 2d is to use a j.4d.

2) Stronger punishes; most of you may have noticed how Lambdas like to back dash. You can punish them by using 6c -> 6k taunt loop. V13 just had to catch you twice with 2d to kill you, now they have to do it four or five times. You just need to kill her with two, or three, solid combos.

3) Drives; because Tao's C cancel drive gives her + frames on block, you can come up with different pressure mixup strings. There's very little Lambda can do against your drive other than try to read you like a book. Because of the way counter hits work in this game, you can hit confirm a drive B-cancel CH to a taunt loop.

Long story short, the only way a lamb-chan player would win this is if they know the matchup better than the other opponent.

[Ronove]

Long story short, the only way a lamb-chan player would win this is if they know the matchup better than the other opponent.

Heh, I guess it all boils down to this most likely. I haven't really fought many of them so this is probably why I'm still in the phase where I'm figuring out how to respond to her new dash attacks and what are the holes in her hit'n'run offense.

Thanks everyone for the tips!

[KojinSagara]

yeah, when i played v13 against my freinds tao, i started the match trying to bait the drives, since i knew he had the mobility to go past them and punish me for big damage if i got predictable with it. i actually became more aggro after knock down, using my pressure up close to keep him pinned. The fact that she lost her old actparcer to me prevents this, the best i can do is try to trick you into a grab up close, and all she gets no frame advantage from anything up close really. plus the fact that she can't jump out of her standing drives means one correct guess from tao should mean a gay taunt loop . But Tao to me easier to pin down up close than lambda ( backdash, reversal super, IB> Gravity reversal) and we have a whole mess of gaurd breaker options so honestly anytime tao has is blocking is really bad for her. I think the matchup is pretty even

[XDest]

Nu vs Tao was even in CT, imo.

Lambda doesn't have much damage outside of the corner, while Tao gets 3.5k-7k all the time. That's a big deal, especially since pinning Tao down towards the corner is exceedingly difficult to accomplish. Even with Tao's lower HP, Tao has the damage advantage now, whereas before Nu did. And there's the fact that things that used to give Tao trouble, like Nu's 2C and possibly 5C, have been nerfed considerably. Meanwhile, Tao's approach and pressure has gotten better with her new j.B hitbox/speed, and her new safe drive cancel recovery.

I can't see any possible way that this matchup is not in favour of Taokaka. I think it's probably something like 6-4. But that's just my opinion.

[Overheat]

Yeah, I thought Nu-Tao was 5-5. And with Lambda's nerfs and Tao's "buffs" it's clear that this match is in Tao's favour.

Just a reminder for Tao players: IAD's are a good and quick way to close the distance, but keep in mind that Lambda can still use 6D or 2D you while you're air-dashing. Personally I think IAD's are risky, so use them smartly.

Also, this should go without saying, but Lambda's DP isn't an amazing DP. Try to bait it for huge damage.

[Final_Round]

man, i don't see how this match up is in tao's favor at all. I just got finished playing this high level lamda and it was damn near impossible to get close to him. everytime i iad i got smacked right out of the air. Her dp will snag tao, if you are in the air. Even super jumping doesn't work her 2d goes that high to snag you.

Her gravity well, stops tao from pressuring her. her aa 6a beats all of tao's air to ground attacks. i mean the player i played, was a pro guilty gear player who used dizzy, alex garland or something like that. If he wasn't breaking my guard libra, i was getting aa, from everywhere that i came. i truly don't see how, with as many ways she has to break tao's guard libra and aa tao, how can she possible beat lamda.

Also, once she get's meter i think it's her 6dd the one that comes from behind, can be hit confirmed into her multi sword distortion then, you have to guess, if you ib it, he would do the wheel from behind and while you were blocking the swords, dash up, instant over head, or do the 214d to break your one of your guard primers. I felt like this match was hopeless, unless i got in. Who ever said, cat crawl was good must not have played a good lamda. There's no way you have enough time to cat crawl with getting hit but either her 6dd, dp, dash up instant air 214d, and the swords that come up from the ground and who knows what else.

I'm no xdest or no kazu but man, this has got to a really iffy match up, like if tao doesn't get close from the beginning she loses, but if tao hits lamda with 3 solid combos shes dead but the point is, how do you get pass all of her ways to stop you from getting in?

[crazycrackers]

man, i don't see how this match up is in tao's favor at all. I just got finished playing this high level lamda and it was damn near impossible to get close to him. everytime i iad i got smacked right out of the air. Her dp will snag tao, if you are in the air. Even super jumping doesn't work her 2d goes that high to snag you.

As a Lambda user I can tell you that this matchup is without a doubt in Tao's favor. If you can't get in on lambda you're being too predictable. This is not the kind of matchup for Lambda where she can just react (such as her matchups against Tager/Haku) to approaches. Tao has some of the craziest mobility in the game, and can cross the screen extremely quickly. Lambda has to PREDICT tao and not make mistakes. If Lambda misses a single sword Tao can drive across the whole dam screen and punish her. Hell, if Tao gets a CH its a taunt loop right there. And yes, 2d is very good and hits people high up in the air. If Lambda has a habit of doing this you can surprise her by using your 4d, which will immediately take you to the ground and then straight at lambda. Use the B cancel to your drive when it hits (not sure on Tao specific terminology). If she blocks you can probably start to pressure her. If it hits then you're in and can start pressure. If it gets a counter hit you have yourself a taunt loop.

Her gravity well, stops tao from pressuring her. her aa 6a beats all of tao's air to ground attacks. i mean the player i played, was a pro guilty gear player who used dizzy, alex garland or something like that. If he wasn't breaking my guard libra, i was getting aa, from everywhere that i came. i truly don't see how, with as many ways she has to break tao's guard libra and aa tao, how can she possible beat lamda.

Ok, gravity well is the worst reversal in the game besides Rachel's cat chair. Its slow, clashes with some normals (hell, Tagers jab clashes with it), has piss-poor range, and has a cooldown after you use it. Against Tao, its not even that useful. As long as you're not predictable with stuff like your 6b overheads you should easily be able to bait this because there aren't many good times to use it against Tao. After you bait it and punish its still in cooldown and you can go to town with your pressure. Gravity well, to be honest, is just sort of a scrub crusher. Now then, Lambda's 6a, no argument there. Its a serious anti air. You just have to be smart about your jump ins, but really if you surprise the Lambda player with an approach and get them to miss a sword, there's no way they're going to anti air you since you can punish sword whiffs, something other characters can't do to lambda (at least full screen that is). Regarding guard breaking. Lambda is probably the best guard crusher in the whole game (I've heard Mu is nuts at it too but who even uses Mu). But, lets just take into account Lambda's guard crushing moves and how effective they are against Tao specifically. 214d, this is spike chaser, her trademark move in CS really. While amazing against most of the cast, Spike chaser is complete fail against Tao. If Tao just reacts quickly enough to it, she can super jump above its height, and then drive>b cancel to the other side of lambda and hit her with a falling aerial>whatever. 236d, in case you don't know this is the move that creates the sickle on the ground that keeps you in stun. If she ever do this its easy for any character to punish, and you can jump on reaction if she does this to you because its just horribly laggy. 236c, cavalier, watch out for this, its an air unblockable, but if you block it Lambda is at a disadvantage. Finally, j.214d, crescent saber. Not bad, I guess, but if its not properly spaced its punishable. In other words, Lambda's guard crushing isn't that good on Tao at all unless she does her 236236d distortion.

Also, once she get's meter i think it's her 6dd the one that comes from behind, can be hit confirmed into her multi sword distortion then, you have to guess, if you ib it, he would do the wheel from behind and while you were blocking the swords, dash up, instant over head, or do the 214d to break your one of your guard primers. I felt like this match was hopeless, unless i got in. Who ever said, cat crawl was good must not have played a good lamda. There's no way you have enough time to cat crawl with getting hit but either her 6dd, dp, dash up instant air 214d, and the swords that come up from the ground and who knows what else.

You're thinking of 4dd, not 6dd. And actually it fully combos into her distortion, not just forces you to block. But while you're blocking this, honestly, you just have to try to block whatever Lambda dishes out. Sorry. Still, why would you get hit by her 4dd in the first place? Its a slow overhead, and from 5dd its her most used option by far since if she goes low with a teleport you can IB the 5dd and 2a her out of her teleport. Tao is also probably one of the characters who can IB the low teleport itself and punish her with 2a I'm assuming. After 5dd, block high for 4dd, and react to her low. And you're just going to have to learn to react to that air overhead lambda has. Its not actually "instant", not CT Rachel j.2c status at least. And it doesn't combo into anything without meter. Also, cat crawl is legit. Its not like you should just keep using it, you should wait for her to whiff a 5d and immediately 5d~b her. If she uses 4d you can react and run at her (which will cause 4d to miss behind you). If she uses spike chaser you can react to that as I've already stated. If she uses j.214d, you are too close to her while cat crawling in the first place. Gravity well is the only good option against cat crawl that you listed, and if she uses it she'll have no reversal for a while, and the gravity well itself only lasts a few seconds. And trust me, it is not at all difficult to block against Lambda for a few seconds. And you're right, this matchup IS impossible unless you get it in. Thats how Lambda is against any character. But its easier for Tao to get in on Lambda that it is for any other character.

I'm no xdest or no kazu but man, this has got to a really iffy match up, like if tao doesn't get close from the beginning she loses, but if tao hits lamda with 3 solid combos shes dead but the point is, how do you get pass all of her ways to stop you from getting in?

What? First of all, Lambda's damage output is pretty bad unless she either has heat or gets specific hits (236c, CH 5d, CH 6d with specific spacing, 2d at closer heights, throw...etc). Second, its WAY easier for Tao to make a comeback against Lambda than vice versa. Tao has her taunt loop, which you can start off of a plethora of options, including a drive~b counter hit for a single missed sword.

In general it sounds to me like your problem is that you're either getting outplayed/outpredicted, or you're inexperienced against Lambda, or both. This is definitely Tao's advantage.

[Final_Round]

@crazycrackers

Thanks i really appreciate your input in this, i will take that you have said and put it into action. your right i don't really know the match up that well, it's just i never fought a person that good with lamda, i guess i never fought a person at that level before. But I see how NOW, how its in tao's favor. I'm glad someone decided to read and respond, because i really did need help. thanks again

[crazycrackers]

No problem. Lambda is really difficult for anyone who's not really experienced against her.

[SsbbOrUp]

so... i hate this matchup any solutions about a lambda player who mashing 5c after a corner combo?.... if i gourd it, he will repeat it and i won't gourd it forever!!!

...about the match up i think doing j.5d~b is a good solution .. and prowl "3" is a good safe state it is dodge her 5d and 214a\b\c hit ..... while u doing prowl just focus in her moves ..... if she doing 214d or 236d u just do 2d~b or j.5d~b and u'll be near her and try ro punish her with ur best combos... after start hurting her just u had better not to leave her alone !