Hi I'm Asylum Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 ok wrong wording fighting people without cause other than kokonoe saying "I dont like him, beat him up!" or "we don't have time, so beat them up anyway!" If anything that makes him more innocent than anyone else in the cast, as he is an agent of Kokonoe and acts on no volition of his own. And really, what choice does he have? He's basically willingly imprisoned by Kokonoe, as he wouldn't be alive without her tech keeping him that way. Were he to try and go rogue I'm sure Kokonoe would just override his systems. Not that that would ever happen, as she saved his life.
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 he's a soldier, he kills people =p edit: i can't really see someone who's willing to work for someone like kokonoe without asking questions as a good person. do you ever look at a villains minions and think 'they must be good on the inside' or 'they're being forced into this' yeah i said kokonoe's a villain, i said it.
Hi I'm Asylum Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 He was. Now he's just a machine driven by Koko.
mAc Chaos Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Tager does seem to have doubts at Kokonoe. Look at all the times Hakumen picks at his so called faith in her, and then you see him basically try and convince himself that she's not crazy.
Hi I'm Asylum Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 The difference between the two isn't really relevant. Whether or not Lambda's conscience was left in tact, she still would have been physically beholden to Kokonoe, the same situation Tager is in. Although when Nu broke through to her she ended up acting on her own. But then Tager doesn't really have a psychotic ex-soul to get possessed by.
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 i've never seen him have any trouble saying no to hakumen, it's always 'kokonoe said it, so it's right.' with him. hakumen just doesn't take no for an answer.
Hi I'm Asylum Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Tager does seem to have doubts at Kokonoe. Look at all the times Hakumen picks at his so called faith in her, and then you see him basically try and convince himself that she's not crazy. He never steps out of line though, presumably because he can't. But really his faith is always resolved by the end of those encounters, and in CS appears absolutely unshakable (See: haku bringing up the dangers of nuclear apocalypse).
ChrisX Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 he's a soldier, he kills people =p edit: i can't really see someone who's willing to work for someone like kokonoe without asking questions as a good person. do you ever look at a villains minions and think 'they must be good on the inside' or 'they're being forced into this' yeah i said kokonoe's a villain, i said it. Again, I'll have to make an argument in this. Kokonoe may be... nasty. But as nasty as she gets, she's not a villain because she's technically backing Ragna, the hero of the story. The villain in this story is obviously Terumi, and while this setting is pretty gray, Terumi is PURE BLACK. Anyone who opposes him is instantly the good guy. Even nasty people like Kokonoe. Or Jin.
Hi I'm Asylum Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 I don't think Kokonoe is particularly bad. All she wants is Terumi dead, and that sounds like a pretty classical protagonist/antagonist relationship to me.
FoxyAreku Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Why the Litchi hate? She's a very good person, she may be a bit selfish in her goal to save Arakune, and may have some problems with priorities, but I think how she always puts others before herself and is a doctor makes her pretty good. Doing one bad thing=/=being a bad person.
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 the point to all this being that in the bb universe you can't really pick out a 'good' side. you either have the nol (hazama, relius, saya, tsubaki, litchi, phantom, and arakune [supossed prisoner]): trying to destroy the master unit and supposedly kill everything (hazama) or going after a lost cause (litchi) or wants to eat (arakune) or mindlessly doing what their told (tsubaki) sector seven (kokonoe, tager, lambda [or whatever bot replaces her now]): ruled by an easily pissed off cat-girl sitting on a bed of nukes the wanderers (bang, taokaka, carl, ragna, jin, noel,): each going to ikaruga for their own personal gain. and the observers (rachel, valkenhyne, hakumen, jubei, platinum): perfectly content with watching the world go to hell so...pick your poison...
FoxyAreku Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 The impression I got was, as you put it, "The Wanderers" were going to stop the NOL and save Tsubaki and Litchi from Hazama's influence. Wouldn't that be the best out of all of those, or did I misunderstand the ending?
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 technically only one person would be interested in saving tsubaki (noel), the rest don't really care. nobody's worried about litchi, she's a grown woman. everyone's just focused on terumi cause he's an ass.
Hi I'm Asylum Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 I'm quite sure the observers are not content with their positions but rather bound to them. Rachel has expressed disdain many times throughout ct and cs at her inability to act or intervene. At the end of CS Jubei seemed disappointed that the injury inflicted on him by Phantom? would prevent him from aiding Hakumen in the battle against the Murakumo and Terumi. I'm not really sure what Platinum is doing, but I believe it is more than idly watching. As for Valkenhayn...I do wonder how one of the six heroes ended up attendant to a vampire.
smooshman Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 technically only one person would be interested in saving tsubaki (noel), the rest don't really care. nobody's worried about litchi, she's a grown woman. everyone's just focused on terumi cause he's an ass. Jin cares about Tsubaki.... in his own angry yelling dickish way, but he cares, I mean he cares about Ragna too.... it's only bad if he doesn't care about you.
ChrisX Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Why the Litchi hate? She's a very good person, she may be a bit selfish in her goal to save Arakune, and may have some problems with priorities, but I think how she always puts others before herself and is a doctor makes her pretty good. Doing one bad thing=/=being a bad person. It's not as much as Litchi hate, it's more of someone who's confused on which side of morality is she on ultimately, whether she deserves to be rooted for or we should just deem her completely fallen and no longer deserve to be pitied. Also, she's a SCIENTIST before she's a doctor... It's easy to say that when she is formerly a good, kind helper at first, but then suddenly took the antagonist side, one that contains more Complete Monsters. It's kinda hard to see her as a good person when she actively took the darkest of side, the side that we're supposed not to root. (And yes, I do say that because whichever organization that held Terumi (and/or Relius) will be the worse case of evil. If Terumi/Relius say 'Screw NOL, I'm joining Sector Seven', then Sector Seven becomes the worse evil. Bottom line is aligning yourself with the side that has Terumi is a good way to be called 'evil'). We're also discussing of what future bad things she'll do judging from the situation. (Though nobody seemed to believe that she will hate Sector Seven) Also, Rachel wasn't quite satisfied watching things go to hell. She's trying to change things, but unable to due to her role as observer. Or at least that's what I think about her.
Hi I'm Asylum Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Oh Hakumen seems to have quite a bit of pent up sentiment for Tsubaki, and warned her quite explicitly about Izayoi if I recall.
FoxyAreku Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 You forgot Jin, since they have a romantic side going on. But I can see what you mean. I think Noel would want to save Litchi to, assuming their "friendship" and Noel's panda fetish is part of the canon.
smooshman Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Oh Hakumen seems to have quite a bit of pent up sentiment for Tsubaki' date=' and warned her quite explicitly about Izayoi if I recall.[/quote'] and so does Jin..... people seem to forget Tsubaki is one of the few people Jin likes... and few I mean . he has feeling too;-;
ChrisX Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 I don't think CT Gag Reels count as canon, and she's probably the least on Noel's term of 'want to save'. She'll prioritize Tsubaki first. Also, Litchi's problem is because she never told anyone about her problem, and the ones that knew her problems has refused to help, and at this point, pretty much would want her dead. If Tao, Bang and Carl knew the problem, I'm sure they'd like to help. But as of now, they don't know, thus they wouldn't care. Though since Tao is with Ragna, if Tao ever learns that, she might try to convince Ragna to go easy on her.
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 i never really got the sence of jin likeing tsubaki. acording to hakumen, he never realized he loved tsubaki until she died. therefore i can see how hakumen loves tsubaki, he does. jin however, because she never died, he never saw his true feelings for her and is still pretty blinded by his love/hate with ragna. of course i rushed through the story so i might have to go re-look at how those two ended up with each other, but he just seemed pissed that she didn't listen to him. and we all know what jin does to people who piss him off...
harmless kitten Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 and so does Jin..... people seem to forget Tsubaki is one of the few people Jin likes... and few I mean . he has feeling too;-; Idk, Jin says he wants to save Tsubaki but I'm sure he'll put Ragna first. He basically states that he's going to use the power of order to save (read: put out of his misery) Ragna. I thought we had already established that on some level, BlazBlue characters are all horrible people?
Hi I'm Asylum Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 i never really got the sence of jin likeing tsubaki. acording to hakumen, he never realized he loved tsubaki until she died. therefore i can see how hakumen loves tsubaki, he does. jin however, because she never died, he never saw his true feelings for her and is still pretty blinded by his love/hate with ragna. of course i rushed through the story so i might have to go re-look at how those two ended up with each other, but he just seemed pissed that she didn't listen to him. and we all know what jin does to people who piss him off... Seems to me that the realization of his love would have to correlate to Jin's rejection/assertion of domination over Yukianesa.
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Idk, Jin says he wants to save Tsubaki but I'm sure he'll put Ragna first. He basically states that he's going to use the power of order to save (read: put out of his misery) Ragna. I thought we had already established that on some level, BlazBlue characters are all horrible people? i reiterated this a page ago. nobody seemed to have any say otherwise
Recommended Posts