Shadow Draygon Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 You have to stop reading places like Gamefaqs and BB.com for "valuable story info". Hell even here it's hit or miss.
ChrisX Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Then I suppose there is nothing else we can trust except ourselves, whether we want to still continue to trust that Litchi still remains good or has completely fallen. But I'm pretty sure that you CAN'T just understand Litchi's actions right on face value at first, suddenly joining the bad guys (I mean... who's not shocked?). We eventually come to understand her plight, but... who suddenly understands her situation on get go if one just waltzes through the True End without touching the rest of the story? All I'm saying that probably we all had our share of at first being shocked, and possibly hating her for what she's done, betraying the trust. What makes us different than those from GameFAQS and BB.com is that... we dig deeper, and then understand why it all makes sense, rather than just slapping the word 'traitor', 'unsympathetic' forever. I'm sure that even without her plot twist, she still has her share of haters, but I'll leave it to them. Now on another theory talk... Am I the only one to think that next game, there'll be a big story involvement going with Tager? I mean, they're going to Ikaruga, he used to be an Ikarugan commander before cyborgification. I wonder what they have in store for him. In so far, it seems that he's kinda just being Kokonoe's Yes Man... I hope he evolves further.
Shadow Draygon Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Tager is just a side character. He's never had an important role in the story. A plot point may come up later down the road, but you can't force everyone to be the main character in a huge roster like BB.
ChrisX Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 I know, but side characters can develop further. I mean, look at Carl and Bang. They're just side characters, but the presence of Relius made Carl develop, as well as the stressed out fact that he starts believing that not all adults are bad. Bang himself goes from one man who hates Jin at all cost, into someone who spared him. Not to mention about the presence of his Nox. They're still development. Besides, BB's roster hasn't been as huge as GG, and that's even less roster than most Capcom & SNK fighting games (unless we count the NPCs so far in BB)... Plenty of room for development, to be honest.
Shadow Draygon Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Well my focus there was not everyone has to have an important role to fill (despite what most fanboy/girls want) but can at the same time provide a certain aspect to the story. Just because they're not a main character doesn't mean they'll add to the story.
Hawka Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Before I start, let me reference something from the Mabinogion: a corpse can be reanimated on the conditions that it cannot speak. This got me thinking to Phantom, who not only cannot speak but is also speculated to be Nine(a very powerful witch). From what I understand,Phantom has been used as a slight power advantage for the antagonists. I think they're trying to use Tenjou's body the same way Phantom's body is being used right now, which is just to be a powerful tool. I think it's more than this, but this is what I can speculate based on what I know so far. Sorry it took so long to respond, but that's a rather interesting insert about Phantom, good to know. That being said Nine was an all powerful witch as you said, she would obviously have her uses, but what purpose would Tenjou's corpse serve? I'm going back over the incident in Jin's storymode, and it seems he sensed and then realized something before Terumi screwed with his memories, the reason why he was specifically sent to crush Ikaruga when anyone else could have supposedly done the job and then subsequently cover it all up. Perhaps a special need for the Power of Order was required to kill/seal Tenjou, which opens up quite a few possibilities his body might hold now.
What_The_Factor Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Relius has directly commented on how he personally built "Hazama" so no, that's not even close to being an ounce of speculation. Now I've 100'd the story mode and arcade, but I guess I forgot this. When did he say that? Guess that would bunk my theory alright.
Shadow Draygon Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Don't own the game, but it some time during the True Ending I think where Relius scolds Hazama for getting beat up on purpose and that he didn't design it for that kind of abuse.
pktazn Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Don't own the game, but it some time during the True Ending I think where Relius scolds Hazama for getting beat up on purpose and that he didn't design it for that kind of abuse. That happens in Hakumen's bad end I believe. EDIT: I'm going to check it's bugging me lol. EDIT 2: It's his bad ending... or at least what I think is his bad ending... Here's the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twDPuGO_Lwo#t=5m15
ClubAmerican Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 But I'm pretty sure that you CAN'T just understand Litchi's actions right on face value at first, suddenly joining the bad guys (I mean... who's not shocked?). We eventually come to understand her plight, but... who suddenly understands her situation on get go if one just waltzes through the True End without touching the rest of the story? All I'm saying that probably we all had our share of at first being shocked, and possibly hating her for what she's done, betraying the trust. What makes us different than those from GameFAQS and BB.com is that... we dig deeper, and then understand why it all makes sense, rather than just slapping the word 'traitor', 'unsympathetic' forever. I'm sure that even without her plot twist, she still has her share of haters, but I'll leave it to them. I'm sorry I don't want to sound like I'm dragging on about this and I agree with what you are saying. I just want to say my main point is that this Litchi is "equally good to everyone" is something that these people came up with in their heads as they were completely ignoring the one and only important reason that she's in the story, the fact that she's obsessed with Arakune and trying to save him. And just because she's acting selfishly doesn't at all mean that she's inherently evil. She just happens to have gotten herself entangled in bad guy affairs. The only reason you would ever feel "betrayed" is because you really weren't paying attention to any of her story from CT leading up to this, which is why I'm confused this is even an issue anywhere. But then again, I have a feeling you guys get this. This would do better to be posted on GameFAQS However I feel like I'd be talking to a brick wall. About Tager being more involved in the story: Well I'd pay for a full length motion picture of GOLDEN TAGER X piloted by Makoto :D
pktazn Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Litchi becoming evil wasn't a surprise to me at all. Definitely, if you go through her whole story in CT you can get... hints that there was a possibility that she would become "evil" and I can't put enough quotations around that word. Now, as much as I love Tsubaki, probably one of my top characters, her situation is even worse. I say this because it seems to be that she is more under mind control, probably from Phantom. Of course, she harbored jealousy and etc. before, and Izayoi (or w/e) wasn't helping either, but even then she was hesitant about fighting Jin or Noel, and could not bring herself to kill them. However, it wasn't until Phantom and Hazama showed up, and her inexplicable costume change that she was ready and willing to kill them. I mean, if she isn't being possessed/mind control, then what's the point of the visual aid? Why didn't Litchi get one (I don't think she had one, :P)? Thats just how I see it, anyway. Even if she was hesitant to kill them she still beat them up pretty bad (or as bad as she could lol) and had enough conviction to almost go through with it until she stopped . As much as I love her, I'm thinking she's doing this because she wants to and is not under any form of mind control BUT BUT BUT *before people kill me and think I hate Tsubaki which is impossible* not without a whole shit-ton of manipulation. I think that Tsubaki is choosing to go against them but only because the information that she was given practically confused her to the point where she had no idea what to do anymore and a little bit of "help" from Terumi and Phantom. I would also like to point out that the Imperator had great "timing" in appearing when Tsubaki had no idea what she wanted to do in Tsubaki's story. No offense but it sounds like you're only looking at Jin's story to help your theory...
ChrisX Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 I'm sorry I don't want to sound like I'm dragging on about this and I agree with what you are saying. I just want to say my main point is that this Litchi is "equally good to everyone" is something that these people came up with in their heads as they were completely ignoring the one and only important reason that she's in the story, the fact that she's obsessed with Arakune and trying to save him. And just because she's acting selfishly doesn't at all mean that she's inherently evil. She just happens to have gotten herself entangled in bad guy affairs. The only reason you would ever feel "betrayed" is because you really weren't paying attention to any of her story from CT leading up to this, which is why I'm confused this is even an issue anywhere. But then again, I have a feeling you guys get this. This would do better to be posted on GameFAQS However I feel like I'd be talking to a brick wall. About Tager being more involved in the story: Well I'd pay for a full length motion picture of GOLDEN TAGER X piloted by Makoto :D Nah, I wouldn't bother. I think their standard reaction would be "Cool Story, Bro", or just make short, irrelevant distasteful comment on her. But probably you're right. She may be obsessed, but the persona that she puts up to reach her goal, being the 'kind to everyone' woman caught up to me so good that we thought that it was her true persona. And probably, at that time, I couldn't accept the fact that her kind personality is the minor, and possibly fake one. Though I'm sure that with some revelations, her kindness is not fake, it just took backseat. Though to be honest? I had always hoped that it would prevail over her obsession, but that's for the next game to tell. And to be honest? While selfishness doesn't always equal evil... it's an easier trait to justify hatred towards characters.
Shadow Draygon Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 I still don't get why people still go off on how awesome Jubei is/or will be. He's done absolutely nothing to warrant his "most powerful being" status. He plays the pacifist which you could excuse as someone who obviously doesn't want to get mixed up with it because he could easily sway the battle side. But honestly, the one time he tried to do something in CS he got his ass promptly beat because they used magic. And had to write a cry-me-a-river note to Hakumen about it saying that it was probably his dead girlfriend that did it. And his sword that "cuts that which cannot be cut" what does that even mean? They sell those all the time on the home shopping network. But since he'll play a larger role in BB3 we'll find out then, but seriously, even him showing up in Tao's Astral is diddly squat, the opponent is almost dead anyways, you could replace him with a rock and get the same effect. I really hope he just stays a story character too, but since all the other heroes are playable that'll be pointless to not add him into the mix.
pktazn Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 And to be honest? While selfishness doesn't always equal evil... it's an easier trait to justify hatred towards characters. I can see what you're saying but I personally think that the reason behind their selfishness is what makes me either like the character or dislike them more than the fact that they are being selfish.
ChrisX Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 I still don't get why people still go off on how awesome Jubei is/or will be. He's done absolutely nothing to warrant his "most powerful being" status. He plays the pacifist which you could excuse as someone who obviously doesn't want to get mixed up with it because he could easily sway the battle side. But honestly, the one time he tried to do something in CS he got his ass promptly beat because they used magic. And had to write a cry-me-a-river note to Hakumen about it saying that it was probably his dead girlfriend that did it. And his sword that "cuts that which cannot be cut" what does that even mean? They sell those all the time on the home shopping network. But since he'll play a larger role in BB3 we'll find out then, but seriously, even him showing up in Tao's Astral is diddly squat, the opponent is almost dead anyways, you could replace him with a rock and get the same effect. I really hope he just stays a story character too, but since all the other heroes are playable that'll be pointless to not add him into the mix. Uh, Nine isn't playable yet as well. And taking account to the theory about Phantom = Nine, even Phantom is not playable yet. Thus... yeah, you know the drill. Jubei runs on hype machine a lot. On the topic with Litchi, one last time (hopefully!), well, this is more of the character alignment as in the D&D and TV Tropes, so if you think it's unappropriate, just don't answer. Before CS comes around, it is widely known that she is Neutral Good. But after CS, I am kind of tempted to think that she is True Neutral. She is good-hearted, but her willingness to join the bad guys for her goals just... doesn't seem to make her Neutral Good anymore, but more neutral and self-serving opportunist. You think it's true? On a more new speculation topic... what do you think will happen to Carl and Nirvanna in the end? I know it's very definitive that they will face Relius, but if the series is to end... what will happen? Do you think Carl will still want to restore Nirvanna? I was kind of thinking that probably, Carl will come to a conclusion that even though Ada became Nirvanna, she's still her sister, Nirvanna still possesses Ada's heart and willingness to protect Carl. Just like how you guys predict Litchi will learn to let go of her love to Arakune; I think Carl in the end will learn that Nirvanna being a puppet doesn't matter as long as her heart is in the right place (and if there's one thing Relius failed to destroy in Ada when she became Nirvanna, it's her heart, or at least her will to protect Carl), and will probably give up on his quest to restore Ada and accept her the way she currently is. Besides, Ada would probably agree that she can protect Carl better when she's Nirvanna...
Shadow Draygon Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Well Nine is dead (supposedly) so I'm still right.
Zeromegaman Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Well Nine is dead (supposedly) so I'm still right.She and her sister are dead. I was gonna go out on a limb and say that Phantom could have been her sister in some way. I seriously doubt Nine would just help Terumi. Unless of course it was her intention to either A) Fake her death and work behind the scenes. Which wouldnt make sense considering Kokonoe. or B)Planned to make a comeback. I don't see this one happening. Although if this were to be true I can see it in Phantom. She could have tried do escape the boundary as a soul and ende dup being Phantom with no memories. Or Terumi brought her along for kicks. I still wanna say that Phantom is her sister, since we haven't heard diddley squat about Nine's sister other that Terumi killed her as well. O the topic of Jubei: Yes he is a tad bit overhyped. He still hasn't given us a solid view on why he is the strongest being alive. And I didn't see his ass getting whooped therefore it does not exist *Bricked*
p-kun Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Even if she was hesitant to kill them she still beat them up pretty bad (or as bad as she could lol) and had enough conviction to almost go through with it until she stopped . As much as I love her, I'm thinking she's doing this because she wants to and is not under any form of mind control BUT BUT BUT *before people kill me and think I hate Tsubaki which is impossible* not without a whole shit-ton of manipulation. I think that Tsubaki is choosing to go against them but only because the information that she was given practically confused her to the point where she had no idea what to do anymore and a little bit of "help" from Terumi and Phantom... I always though it's the point. As I said before, it's a lose-lose situation for Tsubaki. If she betrays NOL, she loses her loving family. If she lets Noel/Jin betray NOL, she loses them. The only happy ending for her would be for Noel/Jin to re-join NOL. From the very beginning, she expects to either convince them or beat them bad enough to drag them back (although I thought she doesn't even have the heart to fight them with full power). One thing to notice is that she never even asks them why Noel/Jin behaved the way they did. Because it doesn't matter anyway. She cannot afford them not to return to NOL. I'm guessing she doesn't want to hear anyway. If she knows that they have good reasons to leave, the more difficult it would be for her. Tsubaki was not even expecting to be able to convince them without fights so she got Izayoi. She was hoping that her sight would be enough sacrifice to get her happiness back. She was stressed out and cannot think straight, such that Hazama can easily misled her about Noel. Her canon ending is that she never managed to get Noel/Jin back, and she's getting blind. That's like multiple "lights" of her life gone one by one and that she lost her sight means that it's "time out" for her to even retry. I imagine the slight hope offered by Saya was like the 2nd coming of Jesus for her. In BB, people who want everything tend to lose everything unfortunately. Jin is a good example. Personal interpretation btw . I think Carl in the end will learn that Nirvanna being a puppet doesn't matter as long as her heart is in the right place, and will probably give up on his quest to restore Ada and accept her the way she currently is. I think the happiest ending for both would be for Carl to let Ada rest in peace. It was said that Carl's hatred is driving Nirvana and at the same time hurting her. There will be no happy ending for Ada as long as she's still in Nirvana.
ChrisX Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 But then, if Ada stops being Nirvanna... and suddenly Mori decided to churn out a new arc after this trilogy, Carl will be gone from the roster. I'm speculating about ways to keep Carl in the roster and bring his character development into full stage conclusion. Same way I keep thinking that Litchi joining NOL means she may get a device/weapon that lets her control her staff with telekinesis without being overly dependant on Boundary manipulation, which would further corrupt her. We've predicted that Bang's Houyoku can cure her; and if she did without getting a new method for her fighting style, if BlazBlue gets a new arc after this planned trilogy, she will be out of the roster, and if she returns, she'll need a huge overhaul in fighting style.
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 jubei's a furry with swords and looks like samurai pizzacats, i assume that's where the hype comes from. i don't see why everyones going off about tsubaki, it's not that complex. she was brought up to serve the Imperator Librarius and taught that what she says is law. she was jealous of noel on the inside, maybe hated her, hazama pulled out the hate, she couldn't kill her friends so she was confused, then the person she was brought up to worship all her life shows up and comforts her so she stops thinking and just does what she's told, it's easier for her that way. Imperator says it so it must be true and she'll do it. my two cents
pktazn Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 i don't see why everyones going off about tsubaki, it's not that complex. she was brought up to serve the Imperator Librarius and taught that what she says is law. she was jealous of noel on the inside, maybe hated her, hazama pulled out the hate, she couldn't kill her friends so she was confused, then the person she was brought up to worship all her life shows up and comforts her so she stops thinking and just does what she's told, it's easier for her that way. Imperator says it so it must be true and she'll do it. Formerly... that's basically what I was trying to say about Tsubaki but couldn't figure out how to say it haha. Thanks.
makeamidget Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 if BlazBlue gets a new arc after this planned trilogy, she will be out of the roster, and if she returns, she'll need a huge overhaul in fighting style. Arakune with a bow? Something alont the lines of this:
Seadragon77 Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 That's just creepy... or cute. You know, since anything with Hello Kitty is considered to be very cute.
LukewarmHoliday Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 This is about 10 pages too late but since the consensus seemed to be that The Bloodedge in the past wasn't Ragna. How about I bring up this advertising snippet from the Phase 0 novel due to come out. Careful this advert contains some pretty fucking big spoilers and I don't know why such spoilers would be used to advertise something. Maybe they thought the foreshadowing in CS was blatant. The long-awaited novel tie-in to the super-popular fighting game! The unknown battle of Ragna the Bloodedge and the Black Beast is depicted in this completely official story! When a young lady harboring a mysterious power, Caelica, has a chance encounter with Ragna, the door to the origin of the BlazBlue series, Phase 0, opens! The unknown battle of Ragna the Bloodedge and the Black Beast is depicted in this completely official story! So really at this point the only speculation worthy aspect of this is if the main storyline ragna is who fights the black beast, or if the ragna who fights the black beast is born during the CT/CS loops, or something else entirely. Bottom line is Ragna fights the beast.
Zeromegaman Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 But then, if Ada stops being Nirvanna... and suddenly Mori decided to churn out a new arc after this trilogy, Carl will be gone from the roster. I'm speculating about ways to keep Carl in the roster and bring his character development into full stage conclusion. Same way I keep thinking that Litchi joining NOL means she may get a device/weapon that lets her control her staff with telekinesis without being overly dependant on Boundary manipulation, which would further corrupt her. We've predicted that Bang's Houyoku can cure her; and if she did without getting a new method for her fighting style, if BlazBlue gets a new arc after this planned trilogy, she will be out of the roster, and if she returns, she'll need a huge overhaul in fighting style. Now that I think about it, wasnt it GGXX Where you could unlock Justice and Kliff and they had like, no Story Mode at all? Why not just keep the roster and eliminate them from the story, until needed again? Its not like Mu-12 had her own Story.
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