smooshman Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 i never really got the sence of jin likeing tsubaki. acording to hakumen, he never realized he loved tsubaki until she died. therefore i can see how hakumen loves tsubaki, he does. jin however, because she never died, he never saw his true feelings for her and is still pretty blinded by his love/hate with ragna. of course i rushed through the story so i might have to go re-look at how those two ended up with each other, but he just seemed pissed that she didn't listen to him. and we all know what jin does to people who piss him off... the reason he's pissed is because she's hurting herself in order try and defeat him and Noel.... and he's pissed she doesn't not hurt herself. He cares.... just.... he's an ass...
FoxyAreku Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 It's not as much as Litchi hate, it's more of someone who's confused on which side of morality is she on ultimately, whether she deserves to be rooted for or we should just deem her completely fallen and no longer deserve to be pitied. Also, she's a SCIENTIST before she's a doctor... It's easy to say that when she is formerly a good, kind helper at first, but then suddenly took the antagonist side, one that contains more Complete Monsters. It's kinda hard to see her as a good person when she actively took the darkest of side, the side that we're supposed not to root. (And yes, I do say that because whichever organization that held Terumi (and/or Relius) will be the worse case of evil. If Terumi/Relius say 'Screw NOL, I'm joining Sector Seven', then Sector Seven becomes the worse evil. Bottom line is aligning yourself with the side that has Terumi is a good way to be called 'evil'). We're also discussing of what future bad things she'll do judging from the situation. (Though nobody seemed to believe that she will hate Sector Seven) Also, Rachel wasn't quite satisfied watching things go to hell. She's trying to change things, but unable to due to her role as observer. Or at least that's what I think about her. Litchi doesn't care about their goal though I think, she is just so hell-bent on saving Arakune it's making her kinda blind. Above all though I'm just really worried Litchi may die at some point, especially after seeing her bad ending. Though, after playing Tager's story and seeing how much Linhua looks up to Litchi, it would be pretty epic if Linhua adopted Litchi's fighting style and replaced her, if it happened. Not saying I want it to happen, just if Litchi has to go, that's how I would want it. Why do my favorite characters in games always die or have near-death ailments? Ever since I played Final Fantasy 7....
ChrisX Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Idk, Jin says he wants to save Tsubaki but I'm sure he'll put Ragna first. He basically states that he's going to use the power of order to save (read: put out of his misery) Ragna. I thought we had already established that on some level, BlazBlue characters are all horrible people? Bang isn't that horrible, though. Unless you think over-the-top obnoxious things are horrible things. Litchi was pretty close as well to not-horrible, but NOOOO she decided to just join in the cart of 'horrible' and make herself not stand out. *sigh* Oh, and Tao isn't really that horrible, if you count the fact that she just lacks the brain to be horrible. Since the sequel would take place for quite the short time after CS, I don't think we'll ever see Linhua, especially since both Litchi and Tager's story reveal that she has ZERO fighting capability, wouldn't make sense if she's suddenly Instant Expert. I see that quack doctor Han to have more chance than Linhua to represent Orient Town after Litchi is gone, but even his chance is VERY low. And as I said many times... we have NO proofs about what Litchi thinks, other than "It's just a normal police department." Nor proofs about her realizing "Oh my God, it's a horrible organization. But I've gone too far..." Therefore, her morality is in question.
smooshman Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Bang isn't that horrible, though. Unless you think over-the-top obnoxious things are horrible things. Litchi was pretty close as well to not-horrible, but NOOOO she decided to just join in the cart of 'horrible' and make herself not stand out. *sigh* Oh, and Tao isn't really that horrible, if you count the fact that she just lacks the brain to be horrible. as stated all the blazblue characters are horrible also when was the dark side only made of evil people? I thought this age of story telling was more colorful than that.
mAc Chaos Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Makoto's a pretty good person with a sensible head on her shoulders. Tsubaki isn't bad either, she's just following orders and going after people she's been told are traitors, even though it's her friends. However, she didn't even go through with it in the end, so... Noel hasn't ever done anyone wrong. Hakumen is pretty much justice incarnate so I don't think he's bad either.
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 i just think it's safe to leave most of the cast in the 'gray' area, with only a few being able to be placed as good (jubei, the lazy ass he is) and evil (terumi, the trolling ass he is) and then you just have 'person x feels y about person z'
smooshman Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Makoto's a pretty good person with a sensible head on her shoulders. Tsubaki isn't bad either, she's just following orders and going after people she's been told are traitors, even though it's her friends. However, she didn't even go through with it in the end, so... Noel hasn't ever done anyone wrong. Hakumen is pretty much justice incarnate so I don't think he's bad either. noel.... really? okay mu might not count, but she's stupid good, so she's terrible Tsu is blind in every possible sense of the word and Haku is lol Haku, he's a knight's templar.... so he's not a very good person. Makoto's a squirrel, so she sucks too.
ChrisX Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 as stated all the blazblue characters are horrible also when was the dark side only made of evil people? I thought this age of story telling was more colorful than that. As mAc Chaos said, Makoto is a good example of Good. But while the dark side is not made of completely evil people, NOL is pretty much the least organization you'd want to root for. Reason? Terumi and Relius. @Foxy: You see? I've wanted to root for Litchi. But in this situation, rooting for her means rooting for NOL, meaning I root for those two Complete Monsters, and I... REALLY don't want to.
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 makoto hasn't done anything to warrant a good status. she hasn't done anything to warrant ANY status. she was an insider for sector seven, we don't even know if this is confirmed since most of it took place in tagers gag reel aka not canon. she's pretty much said and done nothing to anyone aside from chatting with her old nol buddies.
FoxyAreku Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Oh hey that's right, Bang and Tao would want to save Litchi. Maybe even Tager, derp how could I forget that. I know Kokonoe SOMEWHAT cares for Litchi to.
mAc Chaos Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 noel.... really? okay mu might not count, but she's stupid good, so she's terrible Tsu is blind in every possible sense of the word and Haku is lol Haku, he's a knight's templar.... so he's not a very good person. Makoto's a squirrel, so she sucks too. How does Noel not count? She pretty much goes out of her way to help everyone. Just because she's a nervous wreck all the time doesn't mean she shouldn't count. Tsubaki is blind; that's my point. She means well but she doesn't know what's really going on, how could she? I thought Hakumen was a bit extreme in CT, I almost thought he was a bad guy (but an awesome one) but seeing his thought process throughout CS along with Jin really makes everything he does and thinks understandable.
smooshman Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 makoto hasn't done anything to warrant a good status. she hasn't done anything to warrant ANY status. I like this thought, no default to good. earn your happy ending, you're not good for doing nothing. also are people good for their actions or intent? lol moral dissonance. anyways, the good people suck. and the cool people are dicks, and the evil people are awesome. also I like how right after Haku's heart warming speech, he goes right up to jin and shit talks him lol.
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 these people be gray, argue all you want but that's what it boils down to. it's a fighting game story, everyones made to fight everyone. i.e : gray.
FoxyAreku Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 I really think that's taking the lazy way out. Not every fight is canon. I know Noel has never done anything bad of her own will. Ragna isn't that bad either, he's just out to destroy the NOL (and who can blame him for that with people like Hazama there?) :P Rachel is pretty good too.
ChrisX Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 ... By the way, how GRAY Bang was? He was through and through a good guy who fights for justice, albeit stupid. Makoto shows concern only for her friends in NOL, and realizes that NOL has gone corrupt. She had enough common sense to leave that pit of evil, and goes to the 'lesser evil' Sector Seven. That... sounds good enough for me. @smoosh: Really? One thing I note is that "Good is Good" and "Evil is Despicable"... Or maybe I'm too much a black and white person. @Foxy: As I said, Bang and Tao wouldn't want to save Litchi in instant, if she NEVER TELLS HER FRIGGING PROBLEM ALREADY. She could learn well to know about 'Moral Support'. Tager might care, but he'll be too bound to Kokonoe. Kokonoe only showed care in Litchi's alt ending because she knows for sure that Litchi completely gave up on Arakune (by killing him). At this rate, Kokonoe might still get pissed and she might go along with killing her anyway, because she's a naughty traitor of Sector Seven. By the way, Kokonoe is not the Saya of Sector Seven.
smooshman Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 I really think that's taking the lazy way out. Not every fight is canon. I know Noel has never done anything bad of her own will. Ragna isn't that bad either, he's just out to destroy the NOL (and who can blame him for that with people like Hazama there?) :P Rachel is pretty good too. Ragna's killed innocent soldiers who don't know their organization is evil and Rachel's a bitch who never helps anyone.
pktazn Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 About BB morality: NO ONE IN BB IS "GOOD". NO ONE Except maybe Lambda and Noel lol.
ChrisX Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Can you blame Rachel, though? Rachel is designated as an Observer. She can influence people, but she is not allowed to take direct action. If she wanted to help people, and she's not an Observer, I'm pretty sure that everything will be over in a flash.
FoxyAreku Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Can you blame Rachel, though? Rachel is designated as an Observer. She can influence people, but she is not allowed to take direct action. If she wanted to help people, and she's not an Observer, I'm pretty sure that everything will be over in a flash. This. It's not that Rachel doesn't want to help, it's that she can't.
smooshman Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Can you blame Rachel, though? Rachel is designated as an Observer. She can influence people, but she is not allowed to take direct action. If she wanted to help people, and she's not an Observer, I'm pretty sure that everything will be over in a flash. she's not anymore.... and she let Ragna run into a fucking fight where he can't use his drive.... that's a dick move from a hell for dicks.
FormerlyUnknown Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 what would happen if rachel wasn't an observer: person: umm miss here's your tea Rachel: what the devil is this? person: ummm...oolong tea? Rachel: insolent worm... person: -struck my lightning- ghaah!!!! Rachel: anyone else who beleive that this insolent excuse for tea is drinkable will soon follow him. and you may only refer me me as madam, mistress, or empress thus began the tyranny of empress rachel alucard.
FoxyAreku Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 she's not anymore.... and she let Ragna run into a fucking fight where he can't use his drive.... that's a dick move from a hell for dicks. She let him...after telling him not to go about 10 times and saying he wouldn't be able to win... :P
harmless kitten Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Can we get off the morality topic? Just everyone agree to disagree and we can go back to speculating about crazy stuff.
smooshman Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 She let him...after telling him not to go about 10 times and saying he wouldn't be able to win... :P but she never explained it to him. he had no reason to not go, other than the word of some bitch who's mislead/not helped him many times
pktazn Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Can we get off the morality topic? Just everyone agree to disagree and we can go back to speculating about crazy stuff. This so much. Everyone's just going in circles.
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